Stybar- CX World Champion

[Jordbaer]

Please discuss.

 

[Benotti69]

Omega Quick step rider with Dr Ibauguren working for them, what's to discuss?

 

[will10]

Would there have been a Nys thread if he'd won?

 

[Benotti69]

Would there have been a Nys thread if he'd won?

Is there already a Nys thread?

Why does anyone think CX riders are clean?

Is it not a UCI run sport?

 

[Lanark]

Would there have been a Nys thread if he'd won?

We could have bumped a Leinders thread in that case, after all, Nys has repeatedly expressed his admiration for Leinders.

This should just be handeled in the Ibarguren thread.

 

[Jordbaer]

Of course Nys is incredibly suspicious.

Sure, cyclocross riders are doping. But Stybar coming from the road and completely overpowering everyone means that the training/doping is different. What are the differences?

 

[Afrank]

He didn't really "overpower" everyone. He was trading blows with Nys for much of the race and in the final managed to take advantage of some mistakes Nys made and went away with it. Both looked pretty equal in strength, and like they were both going all out, to me.

 

[Cloxxki]

Spoiler!!!! I hadn't watched the recording yet...

In my time I rubbed elbows with these guys, at the start and when lapped. Nys, Vervecken, etc.
Made it to Gazette van Antwerpen and Superprestige races.

I used to think I was just 4 categories slower than them. Until I learned about the effect doping can offer (from reading, obviously).
It's absolutely outrageous the kind of power they output, with as short as recovery they get. I can hold my own on a bike, 506W VO2max even before I hit my prime, and that was in my off-season, later known as cross season. I would have needed about 650W to stand a chance in global cross. Just insane.

One time I managed to go into another lap before leader Nys came by. I took 2 turns at his speed (40kph rather than my 30-35kph), and then after a little bottleneck he was already long out of sight. Like a disappearance trick.
I would win a local race on the Saturday, and on Sunday hold on to Nys' wheel for about 1 minute, sometimes slightly longer. And those would by far be the fastest seconds on a bike.
I will not discount their technical ability. Doing it yourself is so much different than following at a safe 5m. But hard core drugging for sure is part of that game.

 

[spalco]

In my time I rubbed elbows with these guys, at the start and when lapped. Nys, Vervecken, etc.

I'm sorry, you clearly are a hundred times the cyclist I am, but that's a funny quote.

 

[barn yard]

i would guess that a worldtour team would have a much larger budget and thus a much more extensive medical program than an organization that only races cyclocross

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

i would guess that a worldtour team would have a much larger budget and thus a much more extensive medical program than an organization that only races cyclocross

I think you're underestimating the importance of 'cross in Belgium...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think you're underestimating the importance of 'cross in Belgium...

yep, I don't think Nys lives in a shed during his training stints on Majorca. Neither does Stybar of course.

 

[Cloxxki]

I'm sorry, you clearly are a hundred times the cyclist I am, but that's a funny quote.

Cheers.
I am quite gifted actually, in a purely genetic sense, and accomplished more than decent level on moderate amounts of training. Actually during a period of my life nearly void of proteins in my diet. I really was clueless, could have done a bit better.
According to my trainer (one year, I paid him from my day job) and the medical test doc, I tested quite high in terms of wattage, and showed progress. I did fine when racing against non-pro's, nothing to complain about although I didn't win much even in sports. But when faced with pro's, they seemed several categories above my level. Unhuman. Like the difference between a local pub soccer team and a champions league contender. There should be something in between, but there is not. And on paper, my power output wasn't bad. And in MTB, my bike handling skills weren't an issue, I could hold the wheel of Brentjens and De Knegt when lapped just as "well" as Nys'. It just ended after a minute in me maxing my heart rate.

And full disclosure : back in the day a sports licence racer automatically got an international elite licence. And that was all you needed to enter a Superprestige. Just hardly anyway tried it. Largely because of the lapping thing I think. Not something you volunteer for as local hero.
It's just going to happen. Their 5 laps or your 4. Their 6 for your 5 on a good day. And it just isn't right. There are national champions fighting to not get lapped. Really gifted and dedicated riders who decide to ride clean. It's hard to imagine how fast cross is unless you've been placed between the barriers, along these freaks of unnature.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Of course Nys is incredibly suspicious.

You mean how he shows up to race for the podium for months at a time? I'm not going to put my hand in the fire for Nys. No way. (Lienders @ Rabbo) But, the results are so incredibly consistent, if he's oxygen vector doping, it's better than Sky's transformations.

There really is no doubt the Belgians have great influence over the UCI. Evidence #1 is the Boxer Day Elite race that most international riders simply will not attend. So, again, there's no way I'm saying the Belgians are universally clean. But, there aren't the ridiculous mid-field podium raids we see in grand tours in cyclocross.

But Stybar coming from the road and completely overpowering everyone means that the training/doping is different. What are the differences?

Styby was a World Champion 'crosser before he transitioned to road. He had an excellent 2013, so a few weeks prep is likely sufficient for a run at the podium. Today's conditions were good for Styby.

The last miracle transformations in 'cross were http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/szczepaniak-brothers-positive-for-epo-at-cyclo-cross-worlds A mid-field podium raid!!!

 

[DirtyWorks]

There are national champions fighting to not get lapped. Really gifted and dedicated riders who decide to ride clean.

Ex. Mourey from France. His 2014/13 National Championship race was eventful, but he outclasses his nearest countrymen on a tough course and has for years.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

You mean how he shows up to race for the podium for months at a time? I'm not going to put my hand in the fire for Nys. No way. (Lienders @ Rabbo) But, the results are so incredibly consistent, if he's oxygen vector doping, it's better than Sky's transformations.

There really is no doubt the Belgians have great influence over the UCI. Evidence #1 is the Boxer Day Elite race that most international riders simply will not attend. So, again, there's no way I'm saying the Belgians are universally clean. But, there aren't the ridiculous mid-field podium raids we see in grand tours in cyclocross.



Styby was a World Champion 'crosser before he transitioned to road. He had an excellent 2013, so a few weeks prep is likely sufficient for a run at the podium. Today's conditions were good for Styby.

The last miracle transformations in 'cross were http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/szczepaniak-brothers-positive-for-epo-at-cyclo-cross-worlds A mid-field podium raid!!!

I would say its about the same. 4-5 months of excellence and then nothing.

Now we have to see what Stybar can do.

 

[42x16ss]

He didn't really "overpower" everyone. He was trading blows with Nys for much of the race and in the final managed to take advantage of some mistakes Nys made and went away with it. Both looked pretty equal in strength, and like they were both going all out, to me.

Wasn't able to see the race over here (time difference and finding a stream is hard too) but is it possible that Stybar was a little fresher at the end thanks to a full classics season and a GT in the legs? It makes sense that he should be able to outlast these guys if he's sharp enough on a less technical course.

 

[Ferminal]

What's unexpected about consistency in CX? Depth of talent similar to women's cycling and the season is only 4 months. If Wiggins/Froome/Purito/Valverde can do it on the road (and Vos) why can't Nys do it in what is a glorified national competition. If they're all doping much of the "natural" advantage would still hold for Nys/Stybar, I'm sure they wouldn't be the only ever CX superchargers.

But yes... Looking good for Boonen.

 

[Cloxxki]

Wasn't able to see the race over here (time difference and finding a stream is hard too)

cyclingtorrents.nl

Stybar seemed under less pressure than Nys. The whole country leans on Nys, and Stybar only decided to start when the course and conditions suited him.
He's so serious about his cross, or at least was, that he's fluent in Flemmish.

It's an odd sport, that the riders are SO fast, and then mediocre road pro's show up and blow them away. Lars Boom is also one that let cross for road err I mean money.

 

[proffate]

Lars Boom is also one that let cross for road err I mean money.

I'm not sure the top crossers make more money when they transition to the road. There was a story earlier in the year Stybar was offered high 6 figures to return to cross; with race purses and endorsements this easily exceeds 7 figures which is a lot more than Stybar gets on the road. If anything top crossers go to the road for love of competition.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I would say its about the same. 4-5 months of excellence and then nothing.

Because they are paid to race cyclocross? Nys qualified for the Olympics on the MTB and rode. Like many of his compatriots, they race after the 'cross season, but at lower ranked events and do just fine.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It's an odd sport, that the riders are SO fast, and then mediocre road pro's show up and blow them away.

Check Stybar's 2013 results. He's not mediocre.

I would argue circumstances suited Stybar. He has trouble in bad conditions.

 

[happychappy]

Cheers.
I am quite gifted actually, in a purely genetic sense
According to my trainer (one year, I paid him from my day job) and the medical test doc, I tested quite high in terms of wattage

Means absolutely nothing in a scientific sense, powermeters are a useful training tool, nothing more. "Genetically gifted" individuals will evidence themselves in results.
You're just another bitter wannabe who's trying to convince a forum full of people you "COULDA MADE IT" if it wasn't for the evil doperz.

Get over yourself.

 

[Flamin]

It's an odd sport, that the riders are SO fast, and then mediocre road pro's show up and blow them away. Lars Boom is also one that let cross for road err I mean money.

And Nys makes much more money than Boom

Btw, your story is touching. Guys like Van Aert and Van der Poel must be hardcore dopers at age 18/19 as well then.

 

[Lanark]

And Nys makes much more money than Boom

Btw, your story is touching. Guys like Van Aert and Van der Poel must be hardcore dopers at age 18/19 as well then.

Yeah, we know nobody would ever dope for a u23 CX world championship. Just ask those polish dudes.