Tactics of Columbia - HTC

[lean mean &green]

I have been thinking that the tactics of Columbia HTC and its management are bordering on genius. They seem content to dominate the headlines with stage victories instead of the high risk/reward game that is chasing GC success in grand tours. I think that they are the most bankable investment to their sponsors in the ProTour.
I don't know if this niche is deliberate or a happy accident but I think they have found a happy home beside the Astana's (who put all of their eggs in one basket in July) without actually competing directly against them. I also think this a good formula for cycling as a whole. There is an over-emphasis on grand tour GC (and the TDF) and hopefully sponsors will be willing to back teams with different objectives realizing that it is a worthwhile pursuit, maybe even a safer place to spend advertising budgets in an economic crisis?
Agree/Disagree? Anyone?

 

[Chippers]

From a sponsors point of view they are definitely the most bankable.

I realised how hard they work for their sponsors when Cav crossed the line yesterday with his daft phone celebration. I didn't even realise HTC were a phone company until then.

Astana who?

 

[Baggins27]

I have been thinking that the tactics of Columbia HTC and its management are bordering on genius. They seem content to dominate the headlines with stage victories instead of the high risk/reward game that is chasing GC success in grand tours. I think that they are the most bankable investment to their sponsors in the ProTour.
I don't know if this niche is deliberate or a happy accident but I think they have found a happy home beside the Astana's (who put all of their eggs in one basket in July) without actually competing directly against them. I also think this a good formula for cycling as a whole. There is an over-emphasis on grand tour GC (and the TDF) and hopefully sponsors will be willing to back teams with different objectives realizing that it is a worthwhile pursuit, maybe even a safer place to spend advertising budgets in an economic crisis?
Agree/Disagree? Anyone?

I agree and I do think it is deliberate. They do have some GC "interest", although we all realise it is unlikely Rogers and Martin will be in the top five come the end of the Tour. But they have a smart strategy and I'm sure the sponsors love it.

We do have to remember that they have Cav though and the amount of wins he gets is worth alot of publicity to a team.


I like the way Cervelo went about the start of the season too. As a new team, they got themselves bang into form early and put down a marker.

 

[blackcat]

disagree vehemently, and disagree with Cervelo.

Cipo and Petacchi were there long before.

Also, everyone saying how Armstrong was innovative, and committed himself to one objective. The only thing he was innovative was, rolling out the business strategy, where he could afford to, because the US is the biggest economy, and only had one concern. The Tour.

If any tactic really was so innovative, all teams would neutralise it. But it is not innovative nor genius. Others were perveyors of technology, power meters, and dialing in all variables, far before Armstrong. What Armstrong was different in, the PR flaks were on the hustings selling him, and telling us he was. Which was BS. Telling us he is the mosted tested athlete ever, even tho Cipo and Zabel won about 200 times each, and were wearing leaders' jerseys for probably 50 days each. Add up those tests they had to take. Armstrong got tested a dozen times in July on average, a few times in the Dauphine, a few times in the Midi Libre, and only a few times by USADA domestically. We know he was not tested in Girona, or tipped off he was to be tested.

Have no one understood as yet, the term "form" is another euphemism for co-ordination of one's medical program. The correlation of form to medical program is perfect.

 

[Baggins27]

disagree vehemently, and disagree with Cervelo.

Cipo and Petacchi were there long before.

Also, everyone saying how Armstrong was innovative, and committed himself to one objective. The only thing he was innovative was, rolling out the business strategy, where he could afford to, because the US is the biggest economy, and only had one concern. The Tour.

If any tactic really was so innovative, all teams would neutralise it. But it is not innovative nor genius. Others were perveyors of technology, power meters, and dialing in all variables, far before Armstrong. What Armstrong was different in, the PR flaks were on the hustings selling him, and telling us he was. Which was BS. Telling us he is the mosted tested athlete ever, even tho Cipo and Zabel won about 200 times each, and were wearing leaders' jerseys for probably 50 days each. Add up those tests they had to take. Armstrong got tested a dozen times in July on average, a few times in the Dauphine, a few times in the Midi Libre, and only a few times by USADA domestically. We know he was not tested in Girona, or tipped off he was to be tested.

Have no one understood as yet, the term "form" is another euphemism for co-ordination of one's medical program. The correlation of form to medical program is perfect.

I think you've utterly mised the point of the original post. And there is now a new "doping" forum for you to discuss most of your points.


Also, I'm not really sure how you can "disagree" with the statement about Cervelo making sure they were in good form at the start of the season. Look at the results they got?

 

[blackcat]

I think you've utterly mised the point of the original post. And there is now a new "doping" forum for you to discuss most of your points.


Also, I'm not really sure how you can "disagree" with the statement about Cervelo making sure they were in good form at the start of the season. Look at the results they got?

if it was so brilliant, others would neutralise it, and meet their strategy with the same operation.

Have a look at other teams. ONCE/LS always came firing in Adelaide, and Paris Nice. When Riis needed a new sponsor when CSC-Tiscali had half their support leaving, he brought Julich, Jaksche, and Voigt to Med and Paris Nice, to try and cherry pick early season wins for a winning narrative.

It is how the narrative is achieved. My point. You have a strategy, but strategy is only so valid until it is neutralised. Or is there more at play?

Read "Moneyball" by Michael Lewis.

 

[Franklin]

They do have some GC "interest", although we all realise it is unlikely Rogers and Martin will be in the top five come the end of the Tour. .

Why is everyone forgetting about Kim Kirchen? Not Rogers or Martin, but Kim is the one to watch (Not for the podium, but he will make top ten, maybe top 5)

 

[lean mean &green]

I should also mention that it is comforting because Columbia is an American sponsor. The grand tour GC bias is worst in North America. I also like the approach from Cervelo this spring (a N American bike maker btw) but they seem to be on the losing end in the risk/reward GC game with Sastre. That might be premature but I'm making an educated guess after TTT today.

None of it would work at Columbia without Cavendish, but they are certainly capable of winning races many different ways.

How about Garmin? I think that they put alot of chips on Christian VdV. I don't think he'll have the form to challenge after such a serious early season crash and it seems they desparately seek TTT success and have fallen short in Giro and Tour. I thought they were built to last but am now starting to worry. I like Vaughters and their approach but they haven't been winning much on the big stage. I really hope they're able to sort that out with American sponsors.

I am just rooting for these teams to succeed and survive, it just seems Col HTC has the best formula which is counter-intuitive in North America. Maybe genius is too strong a word but certainly clever.

 

[lean mean &green]

"Cipo and Petacchi were there long before."

Col HTC does remind me of old formula at Saeco but I was trying not to write a novel originally. It is a good comparison.

 

[Baggins27]

Why is everyone forgetting about Kim Kirchen? Not Rogers or Martin, but Kim is the one to watch (Not for the podium, but he will make top ten, maybe top 5)

Yes, I did forget about him then. An excellent point and he is probably a better bet than the two I mentioned....

 

[Baggins27]

How about Garmin? I think that they put alot of chips on Christian VdV. I don't think he'll have the form to challenge after such a serious early season crash and it seems they desparately seek TTT success and have fallen short in Giro and Tour. I thought they were built to last but am now starting to worry. I like Vaughters and their approach but they haven't been winning much on the big stage. I really hope they're able to sort that out with American sponsors.

I hope VdV has a good Tour because I like Garmin..... but I don't think they are having a very good season at all.


They made a big thing about the Giro TTT and lost. They made a big thing about the Tour TTT with JV even talking about Wiggins being in yellow..... and they have lost that.They didn't have an amazing Classics campaign, albeit they have been a touch unlucky with injuries/crashes. Their results have been pretty thin on the ground to be honest.

Let's hope they can pull a stage win out of the bag or get VdV a bit higher up the GC in the next week or so.

 

[Snake8]

if it was so brilliant, others would neutralise it, and meet their strategy with the same operation.

Read "Moneyball" by Michael Lewis.

I think you should re-read "Moneyball". The point as i recall was to gain an advantage when and how you could. The A's/Billy Bean were forced to look for players they could afford that could produce, they found a niche in low cost players who had high OBP who were undervalued by other teams.

I can also guarantee you that Beane-o think he has something smart by running out five rookie pitchers this year, which so far has not worked, except last night against the red Sox. The Tigers did this three years ago and turned a 20 game loser into a 20 game winner. My guess is that Beane is trying the same thing.

Col/HTC and Garmin to a certain extent have pursued strategies that give them an advantage based on the riders they have. Both incidentally coming with a strategy of "racing clean" which, in gar's case helped to attract riders and sponsors - a distinct advantage. Col more or less did the same thing as Highroad. Both teams were quite successful last year yet you don't see all the other teams nuetralizing!

Also the OP's original observation of how there are now two teams looking to the US for sponsorship, is/can be a huge tactical advantage, one you alluded to with LA and how it makes good business sense to have a sponsor in the US.

My point is that there will be a neutralizing but it may take a lot longer than you seem to be inferring. No the OP is right, Col/HTC is doing a great job in almost every respect. Cant think of a team that has done better from results to business acumen to PR. Can you?

 

[Ferminal]

Why is everyone forgetting about Kim Kirchen? Not Rogers or Martin, but Kim is the one to watch (Not for the podium, but he will make top ten, maybe top 5)

Probably something to do with finishing 2minutes down in Monaco, and this - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/realistic-gc-goals-at-columbia-htc

Rogers had a mechanical which hindered his effort, but Kirchen probably avoided going full gas to make sure he's not seen as a threat. As the article says, winning a stage is better than finishing 5th-10th again.

 

[blackcat]

I think you should re-read "Moneyball". The point as i recall was to gain an advantage when and how you could. The A's/Billy Bean were forced to look for players they could afford that could produce, they found a niche in low cost players who had high OBP who were undervalued by other teams.

I can also guarantee you that Beane-o think he has something smart by running out five rookie pitchers this year, which so far has not worked, except last night against the red Sox. The Tigers did this three years ago and turned a 20 game loser into a 20 game winner. My guess is that Beane is trying the same thing.

Col/HTC and Garmin to a certain extent have pursued strategies that give them an advantage based on the riders they have. Both incidentally coming with a strategy of "racing clean" which, in gar's case helped to attract riders and sponsors - a distinct advantage. Col more or less did the same thing as Highroad. Both teams were quite successful last year yet you don't see all the other teams nuetralizing!

Also the OP's original observation of how there are now two teams looking to the US for sponsorship, is/can be a huge tactical advantage, one you alluded to with LA and how it makes good business sense to have a sponsor in the US.

My point is that there will be a neutralizing but it may take a lot longer than you seem to be inferring. No the OP is right, Col/HTC is doing a great job in almost every respect. Cant think of a team that has done better from results to business acumen to PR. Can you?

and the window was closed once the strategy was publicised openly.

Do not publicise the myth Columbia-HTC are on bread and water. That is bull****.

Secondly, the strategies were pursued eons ago. Everyone saw Petacchi clean up in 2003, and Cipo in the previous era. It has been run'n'done. You need the fastest guy in the peloton. But the mythmaking is pure spin.

 

[Franklin]

Probably something to do with finishing 2minutes down in Monaco, and this - http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/realistic-gc-goals-at-columbia-htc

Rogers had a mechanical which hindered his effort, but Kirchen probably avoided going full gas to make sure he's not seen as a threat. As the article says, winning a stage is better than finishing 5th-10th again.

Good call, I missed that tidbit. I think he is right, he can't hope to get more than third and even that would have been a very long shot. So trading in another top ten and going for a stage win (maybe Polka???) is a much better idea.

 

[unsheath]

I have been thinking that the tactics of Columbia HTC and its management are bordering on genius.

You must give out compliments generously.

Having the fastest man in the world going for stage wins and giving him a couple of lead out men is hardly genius. Play to your strengths.

Genius would be Cav winning 7 stages, Kirchen/Rogers/Martin on the podium for GC and Grabsch winning the ITT.

 

[lean mean &green]

You must give out compliments generously.

Having the fastest man in the world going for stage wins and giving him a couple of lead out men is hardly genius. Play to your strengths.

Genius would be Cav winning 7 stages, Kirchen/Rogers/Martin on the podium for GC and Grabsch winning the ITT.

I'm guessing you haven't read all of the posts carefully, here's the 30 sec version...

"Tactics" refers to how well they dominate headlines and race coverage garnering exposure for sponsors. Today's coverage was again "Col HTC this, Col HTC that..." They are dominating much of those headlines without enthusiatically pursuing GC which you would figure American sponsors would want.

When casual fans, or even well-informed ones, tune in to flat stages looking for how Lance is doing they get a heavy dose of Columbia, that is bordering on genius.

How they race and win stages is not innovative at all.