Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[canina82]

He’s won the same level of stage races as Lipowitz. How many has florian won ? Is he a world class gc rider ? Or is only Pog and Vingo world class to you? What about Gall what has he won ?

Lipo has a top3 in the Tour. Pidcock doesn't even have a good result in the TdF.

 

[canina82]

Pidcock is the only one of these three that has Olympic Gold.

In the only discipline he is really good (like I mentioned previously). Tell me other discipline where he is top3. Maybe in the puncheur category? Even there, I don't know.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Lipo has a top3 in the Tour. Pidcock doesn't even have a good result in the TdF.

Well you said what wins does he have. He started focusing on gts last year and got a podium in one, that’s surely world class gt credentials.
Maybe not but he has been focusing on mtb (winning back to back Olympic golds), not gt racing. You say Pogacar would surely be great at cross or mtb but you don’t know that.
Nobody else is as good across all disciplines as Pidcock. Maybe other riders could be, but they’re not. Ergo - Pidcock is the worlds most versatile rider.

 

[canina82]

Well you said what wins does he have. He started focusing on gts last year and got a podium in one, that’s surely world class gt credentials.
Maybe not but he has been focusing on mtb (winning back to back Olympic golds), not gt racing. You say Pogacar would surely be great at cross or mtb but you don’t know that.
Nobody else is as good across all disciplines as Pidcock. Maybe other riders could be, but they’re not. Ergo - Pidcock is the worlds most versatile rider.

Velits got a podium in the Vuelta. Pidcock is focusing in the TdF. Let's see where he finishes compared to Lipowitz.

 

[YavorD]

Well you said what wins does he have. He started focusing on gts last year and got a podium in one, that’s surely world class gt credentials

Lot of people have (fluked) a podium in the Vuelta.
A bit early to say "world class GT credentials".

For what we know he may be another Peter Velits or Hugh Carthy.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Velits got a podium in the Vuelta. Pidcock is focusing in the TdF. Let's see where he finishes compared to Lipowitz.

He has to do better than last years third place to be considered a world class gc rider?
Let’s see. Not forgetting he’s on a non world team and still podiumed the Vuelta, not many riders lately managed to podium a gt on a small team.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Lot of people have (fluked) a podium in the Vuelta.
A bit early to say "world class GT credentials".

For what we know he may be another Peter Velits or Hugh Carthy.

Pidock already has better tdf results than either of those, whilst being a mtber and not particularly trying/not having the tour as a goal.
The first year he tried on a small team he got a podium. His result at the Vuelta couldn’t be further from a fluke

 

[YavorD]

Pidock already has better tdf results than either of those, whilst being a mtber and not particularly trying/not having the tour as a goal.
The first year he tried on a small team he got a podium. His result at the Vuelta couldn’t be further from a fluke

If he doesn't confirm it (meaning gets a couple of top 10s like, say, Mollema), it's one off.
If he doesn't get another tor 10 it is a proper fluke.

Either way, I don't think one Vuelta podium should be considered "world class GT credentials".

 

[canina82]

He has to do better than last years third place to be considered a world class gc rider?
Let’s see. Not forgetting he’s on a non world team and still podiumed the Vuelta, not many riders lately managed to podium a gt on a small team.

Showing some consistency is important, no? This TdF will give us a clear indication.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Showing some consistency is important, no? This TdF will give us a clear indication.

Yes it is important. Pidcock has finished top 16 of four of his last five grand tours. Again, while not really trying or a having them as a goal until last year. Even still you could argue he’s more consistent than say, Remco.
You’re focusing a lot on the grand tours as well, how many world or Olympic mtb titles have Pog and Van der Poel won?

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

If he doesn't confirm it (meaning gets a couple of top 10s like, say, Mollema), it's one off.
If he doesn't get another tor 10 it is a proper fluke.

Either way, I don't think one Vuelta podium should be considered "world class GT credentials".

Let’s see then, I’d argue he’s already shown he’s world class but we’ll see.
Still the most versatile rider in the world, which was my original point

 

[Brumdog66]

Yes it is important. Pidcock has finished top 16 of four of his last five grand tours. Again, while not really trying or a having them as a goal until last year. Even still you could argue he’s more consistent than say, Remco.
You’re focusing a lot on the grand tours as well, how many world or Olympic mtb titles have Pog and Van der Poel won?

Top 16 😂😂

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Top 16 😂😂

Yes, that’s consistency, again, without having gc as a goal and being a mountain biker

 

[canina82]

Yes it is important. Pidcock has finished top 16 of four of his last five grand tours. Again, while not really trying or a having them as a goal until last year. Even still you could argue he’s more consistent than say, Remco.
You’re focusing a lot on the grand tours as well, how many world or Olympic mtb titles have Pog and Van der Poel won?

Top16? This is a joke?

 

[canina82]

Yes, that’s consistency, again, without having gc as a goal and being a mountain biker

Well, he will target the Tour this year. I don't expect a top8. Being top16 is hardly world class.
If it is, I'm pretty sure Pogacar would be top16 in mountain bike and cyclocross with a little bit of training.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Top16? This is a joke?

It is consistent. How many times do I have to say he was not really trying for gc in these races, and when he did, he finished on the podium.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Well, he will target the Tour this year. I don't expect a top8. Being top16 is hardly world class.
If it is, I'm pretty sure Pogacar would be top16 in mountain bike and cyclocross with a little bit of training.

This tour depends on a few things re Pidcock.
It looks like being one of the better fields in a while with pog Vingo sexy Remco Lipo. Top 8 would be a great result, I think he can do that. His team is also not a good one, when was the last time a non world team rider podiumed a grand tour?

 

[canina82]

It is consistent. How many times do I have to say he was not really trying for gc in these races, and when he did, he finished on the podium.

His Vuelta is probably a fluke. He can't even be in the top5 in the Tour. Probably not even top10 unless he gains time in breaks. He is not the most versatile, he just benefits from the fact Pogacar doesn't care about gravel, cyclocross or mountain bike. Because he would definitely be among the top5 riders there.

 

[canina82]

This tour depends on a few things re Pidcock.
It looks like being one of the better fields in a while with pog Vingo sexy Remco Lipo. Top 8 would be a great result, I think he can do that. His team is also not a good one, when was the last time a non world team rider podiumed a grand tour?

It was him who decided to race for a non WT team. His level is massively overrated since he is not a real contender for any big race. Almost won MSR however we look to the last 5 editions and we see Mohoric, Stuyven as winners.
People like you, consider him the most versatile not because he is really good everywhere, but only because he is the only one to race everywhere. And this doesn't have anything to do with ability but with priorities. Pogacar doesn't care about those disciplines.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

His Vuelta is probably a fluke. He can't even be in the top5 in the Tour. Probably not even top10 unless he gains time in breaks. He is not the most versatile, he just benefits from the fact Pogacar doesn't care about gravel, cyclocross or mountain bike. Because he would definitely be among the top5 riders there.

How is it a fluke when it’s the first gc he targeted?
Well everyone was saying he has no chance of top ten in Vuelta so we’ll see won’t we.
You don’t know for sure if Pog would be top 5 at mountain biking, he fell off in Roubaix when he had his best chance.
He probably wouldn’t be winning the tour if he was peaking for Olympic mountain biking so these are just fantasies in your head about Pog being the best at mountain biking or cross.
If you want to talk about real results and consistency, Pidcock is the rider who has had world class success in most disciplines. ‘I could beat Pog at the Tour de France I just don’t want to’

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

It was him who decided to race for a non WT team. His level is massively overrated since he is not a real contender for any big race. Almost won MSR however we look to the last 5 editions and we see Mohoric, Stuyven as winners.
People like you, consider him the most versatile not because he is really good everywhere, but only because he is the only one to race everywhere. And this doesn't have anything to do with ability but with priorities. Pogacar doesn't care about those disciplines.

He still did it though. He is not a sky Robot that’s all, they tried to make him a gc racer but he was interested in mountain biking.
So second in San remo behind Pog is not ‘really good’? Winning Amstel is not really good? Podium of Vuelta, big titles in cross and mtb. Pretty good?
You keep saying Pog doesn’t care about them as if you know for a fact he would win them or be in the mix, his bike handling isn’t good enough to win them. Until he proves otherwise, it’s Pidcock.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Pogacar can go win the Super Bowl with the Miami Dolphins he just not interested

 

[canina82]

How is it a fluke when it’s the first gc he targeted?
Well everyone was saying he has no chance of top ten in Vuelta so we’ll see won’t we.
You don’t know for sure if Pog would be top 5 at mountain biking, he fell off in Roubaix when he had his best chance.
He probably wouldn’t be winning the tour if he was peaking for Olympic mountain biking so these are just fantasies in your head about Pog being the best at mountain biking or cross.
If you want to talk about real results and consistency, Pidcock is the rider who has had world class success in most disciplines. ‘I could beat Pog at the Tour de France I just don’t want to’

No, it's not the first time. That's your own narrative.

 

[Kopfsteinpflaster]

Pogacar can go win the Super Bowl with the Miami Dolphins he just not interested

Pogacar lead the Slovenian basketball national team to the European Championship title in 2017 under the pseudonym Luka Dončić.

 

[canina82]

He still did it though. He is not a sky Robot that’s all, they tried to make him a gc racer but he was interested in mountain biking.
So second in San remo behind Pog is not ‘really good’? Winning Amstel is not really good? Podium of Vuelta, big titles in cross and mtb. Pretty good?
You keep saying Pog doesn’t care about them as if you know for a fact he would win them or be in the mix, his bike handling isn’t good enough to win them. Until he proves otherwise, it’s Pidcock.

I never said he would win. I basically said he would top5. You are mentioning top16 to enhance you argument about Pidcock being a GT rider. I never said Pogacar would win in mountain bike or cyclocross btw. MVP is better than Pidcock and more versatile and I'm pretty sure Pogacar is too.