Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[BahamontesPhantom]

He lost 4'42'' to Froome in 2016 and he lost 10'56'' to Vingegaard in 2022. What does it prove exactly? That 2023 was more difficult to win maybe?.

It proves he podiumed vs Vingegaard but didn’t vs Froome.
Ok Ten minutes to Vingegaard but he came closer to beating Pogacar than Froome…

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It proves he podiumed vs Vingegaard but didn’t vs Froome.
Ok Ten minutes to Vingegaard but he came closer to beating Pogacar than Froome…

Pog cracked hard, yes but I thought our last couple of posts were about if it's more difficult to win the Tour nowadays or in Froome era. So the gap to Vingegaard is the benchmark.

 

[YavorD]

How do you come to that conclusion ? Two of them have won as many or more grand tours than Pogacar, Nibali won more than Vingegaard. I’d say that era was much more difficult to win.
Are Pog and Vingo really a level or two above Froome? How do we know ?

They are 2 levels above Froome.
Froome never had on consistent GT where he was the best all the way. And the Tour was ridden way more conservatively, yet Froome struggled massively in the last mountain stages. He had to be saved by his team.
Put Pogacar and Vingegaard instead if Quintana and I'm honestly not sure if Froome gets to the podium. If, with a conservative racing, he struggles so much in week 3, what would happen to him after hard racing?

Oh, and Pogacar/Vingegaard won't drop 4 minutes on the ITT, like Quintana did in 2013 though

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Pog cracked hard, yes but I thought our last couple of posts were about if it's more difficult to win the Tour nowadays or in Froome era. So the gap to Vingegaard is the benchmark.

It was about placings, so I said Yates. You turned it in to time differences, you’re now turning it back in to placings again.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It was about placings, so I said Yates. You turned it in to time differences, you’re now turning it back in to placings again.

No, I still meant the level. To sum up: I agreed with you regarding early Froome times (about the consistency of 4 very strong GT guys). I disagree regarding the level needed to win the Tour vs the past.

 

[AmRacer]

Pog cracked hard, yes but I thought our last couple of posts were about if it's more difficult to win the Tour nowadays or in Froome era. So the gap to Vingegaard is the benchmark.

2013 - 2017 Vroome
2020 -2025 Pogi / Vinge

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

No, I still meant the level. To sum up: I agreed with you regarding early Froome times (about the consistency of 4 very strong GT guys). I disagree regarding the level needed to win the Tour vs the past.

You asked me to say a gc rider who had a good result against Froome and Pog.
I gave you Yates, who had a better placing vs and was closer in time to Pog.
The only other rider who sort of spanned them is Roglic like you said, he finished one place behind both, though admittedly he was 1 second closer to Froome..

I don’t see a mythical level currently, I see two great riders, but I see a two horse race, throw Froome, Contador and Valverde in there, it gets interesting.
Luckily this two horse race may come to an end this year with Seixas and Pidcock

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

They are 2 levels above Froome.
Froome never had on consistent GT where he was the best all the way. And the Tour was ridden way more conservatively, yet Froome struggled massively in the last mountain stages. He had to be saved by his team.
Put Pogacar and Vingegaard instead if Quintana and I'm honestly not sure if Froome gets to the podium. If, with a conservative racing, he struggles so much in week 3, what would happen to him after hard racing?

Oh, and Pogacar/Vingegaard won't drop 4 minutes on the ITT, like Quintana did in 2013 though

I think it’s more likely that if you put several great climbers in the current mix they disrupt things enough to break the Duology of Pog and Vinge, than putting those two in would be enough to knock Froome off the podium.
Pogacar wore a special t shirt after an (easy) tour saying not to disturb him and that he wanted to retire, so he struggles a bit too.

 

[YavorD]

I think it’s more likely that if you put several great climbers in the current mix they disrupt things enough to break the Duology of Pog and Vinge, than putting those two in would be enough to knock Froome off the podium.
Pogacar wore a special t shirt after an (easy) tour saying not to disturb him and that he wanted to retire, so he struggles a bit too.

Easy Tour win?
Give me a break. He was put under constant pressure for 3 full weeks.

None of the climbers in Froome era would disturb the duology. You are massively underrating Pogacar and Vingegaard.

Edit: Okay, prime Contador could. But during Froome's peak, he was only good in 2014.

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Froome was also over 30 for three of his four tour wins

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

Easy Tour win?
Give me a break. He was put under constant pressure for 3 full weeks.

None of the climbers in Froome era would disturb the duology. You are massively underrating Pogacar and Vingegaard.

ok, a bit harder than 24. But it’s basically man on man, he just has to worry about one guy.
Froome was also older in his wins, hence getting a bit tired later on.
I think Froomey is underrated massively here but, fair enough

 

[YavorD]

ok, a bit harder than 24. But it’s basically man on man, he just has to worry about one guy.
Froome was also older in his wins, hence getting a bit tired later on.
I think Froomey is underrated massively here but, fair enough

Duh..
I.mean it's the older Froome's wins that were more consistent. Arguably the 2016 one was his most impressive.
In 2013 he was 28 (older by your standards apparently) and got dropped by Purito and Quintana twice in week 3. Porte had to take an illegal gel (or something) from the car to help him.


You're right, I may be underrating Froome honestly and he could be the consistent 3rd in this era. But his overall performances doesn't speak volumes that he would be any threat to the 2.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

@BahamontesPhantom Well, if Yates gaps to the winner prove sth, it's that 2016 winner level was more terrestrial than 2023. As for Froomey being older during his wins it's because he was a bidon carrier when younger. TBH I think only in 2013 his level was really superb almost the whole race.

 

[Rou]

Pogacar should be very serious about what is happening in the Giro.
Because of what team Decathlon is doing this year.

 

[canina82]

Pogacar should be very serious about what is happening in the Giro.
Because of what team Decathlon is doing this year.

Yes, the world will collapse... you have the same conversation every year. He already won 4 TdF.

 

[Monsi]

Pogacar should be very serious about what is happening in the Giro.
Because of what team Decathlon is doing this year.

I'm pretty sure he's doing what he needs to do at Sierra Nevada.

 

[Rou]

Yes, the world will collapse... you have the same conversation every year. He already won 4 TdF.

Yes, and he had 2 wins back to back in 2022 before getting rinsed in the mountains.
I'm just saying that Decathlon will be a serious threat.

 

[BubbaChuck]

Pog understands talent of Seixas better than anyone.Like Mercks said,once you are at that level,you develop radar for danger,lmaoo.Pog can feel anyone in the peleton and he knows right away,chump or no chump. Regarding Jonas,he knew its just a matter of time.

 

[yaf2]

Pogacar should be very serious about what is happening in the Giro.
Because of what team Decathlon is doing this year.

Agree, Once again fish showed why we cycling fanatics dislike him when he is refusing to relay even with felix gal 🤦 Where as the kid from france showed the balls throughout the year & is on the verge of giving as one of the best tours ever

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar should be very serious about what is happening in the Giro.
Because of what team Decathlon is doing this year.

Monster salto di qualita (as one well known guy said) by Decathlon. Not just Seixas. Another altitude camp and who knows what the Messiah will show at the Tour!

 

[canina82]

Monster salto di qualita (as one well known guy said) by Decathlon. Not just Seixas. Another altitude camp and who knows what the Messiah will show at the Tour!

I already said he will be Pogacar's biggest rival but Pogacar has already 4 TdF wins. Pressure will be on Seixas if he somehow can follow Pogacar on Tourmalet (french medis will go crazy).

 

[BahamontesPhantom]

I think Pog shouldn’t be too worried, Vingegaard is ahead of Gall as he is always ahead of everyone bar Pog.
Same will happen at the tour even if the French cream themselves over a promising stage or two

 

[Breh]

These last 10 pages were even worse than usual

 

[canina82]

I think Pog shouldn’t be too worried, Vingegaard is ahead of Gall as he is always ahead of everyone bar Pog.
Same will happen at the tour even if the French cream themselves over a promising stage or two

Pogacar is not worried with Vingegaard and I'm pretty sure he doesn't lose sleep with Seixas either. However, he knows Seixas has the potential to beat him while Jonas hasn't.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar is not worried with Vingegaard and I'm pretty sure he doesn't lose sleep with Seixas either. However, he knows Seixas has the potential to beat him while Jonas hasn't.

Pogacar should most of all be focused on his own preparation as it seems he may have more work to do to reach his Tour shape. In July it will turn out if the preparations went well or if they made him too big for the spring.

BTW: I've just read that he will have 2 altitude camps: now in Sierra Nevada (longer) and after ToS in Isola2000 (shorter). Some serious stuff.