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Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

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He didn't lose 7 minutes becuase of Loze. If we had a mountain stage at sea level, he would still lose at least 5 minutes. He was destroyed mentally due to the TT. Altitude didn't play any role.
Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?
 
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Great performance on stage 15, a race defining one. Likely being reassuring too, that training is on the right track. Weight under control, no loss of power in ITT, on both types of terrain, top tier level climbing, punch still seem to be there. Looking forward to the Tour. As for remainder of the Giro, it's still not in the bag, so there is that, beyond that what now. A dilemma that will likely already get answered tomorrow. Pogi likely up for some more.
 
Evidence doesn't suggest that: those

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?
Livigno showed Pog doesn't have problems with altitude, but was in compromising situations those other times AND Vingo was aerobically more efficient. I don't think he will be bothered by altitude per se.
 
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Fos

Apr 11, 2024
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Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?
Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Firsts Tour, let him take a breath. Jonas has shown weakness in some altitude climbing too, Portet?.

Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
After pacing all Jumbo climbing Galibier and not eating in the descend.

Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.
The lack of preparation (everybody know the story) shows in the hardest stages.

You will agree that it does not matter if you adapt more or less to the altitude, any defect in shape will be seen sooner here than in other less difficult stages. Marie Blanque adapts perfectly to him and also bit the dust (example).

In addition, he has had great performances on the rest of the great peaks.
 
Evidence doesn't suggest that:

Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge efort in the TT.

I am sure you can see why many wondered about Pog at altitude before yesterday. In 23 TdF he rode a strong TT by his standards, it was just that Vingegard was on another planet and yet again we forget the wrist injury must have reduced the volume of training he could do which always hurts recovery after big efforts like that TT. And I am not sure Pog is so mentally fragile he would let that get to him on Loze and throw in the towel?
Now, can you put his good performances at altitude? Losing 15 seconds is nothing so I will exclude that so you have 2 bad performances.
Now look:
2019 Vuelta, stage 9 - Cortals d'Encamp (2086m)
He lost more time in stages close to sea level.

2021 Tour, stage 9 - Tignes (2119m).
2021 Tour, stage 17 - Col du Portet (2209m).
I could put Luz Ardiden because they did the Tourmalet but I won't count this.

2023 Tour, stage 6 - He won the stage after following Vingegaard easily in the Tourmalet, the day before he was completely cooked by Vingegaard.

2024 Catalunya, stage 2 - He destroyed the field in Valter 2000

2024 Giro, stage 15 - it is recent, you know what happened.

There are stages where he lost big time to Vingegaard, below 2000m. For example Hautacum or Marie Blanque.
His suboptimal preparation and facing Vingegaard (an extraordinary alien) are way more obvious reasons to Pogacar's failures than altitude.
 
Pogacar lost 15 secs to Roglic in 2020 TdF MTF on Loze.
Firsts Tour, let him take a breath. Jonas has shown weakness in some altitude climbing too, Portet?.

Blew on Granon in 2022 TdF (2,400metres).
After pacing all Jumbo climbing Galibier and not eating in the descend.

Blew completely on Loze in 2023 TdF - the day after a huge effort in the TT.
The lack of preparation (everybody know the story) shows in the hardest stages.

You will agree that it does not matter if you adapt more or less to the altitude, any defect in shape will be seen sooner here than in other less difficult stages. Marie Blanque adapts perfectly to him and also bit the dust (example).

In addition, he has had great performances on the rest of the great peaks.
I agree with you - especially the bolded. I listed those to show why some had doubts about him at altitude - including myself. Yesterday he pretty much answered those doubts. The counter points both you and Peyroteo94 are valid. I hope Vingegaard can fully recover from his injuries so we can have a fair fight. Vingo is an aerobic monster but he has also benefited by Pog's foolish riding and misfortune.
 
I agree with you - especially the bolded. I listed those to show why some had doubts about him at altitude - including myself. Yesterday he pretty much answered those doubts. The counter points both you and Peyroteo94 are valid. I hope Vingegaard can fully recover from his injuries so we can have a fair fight. Vingo is an aerobic monster but he has also benefited by Pog's foolish riding and misfortune.
Depends also on the stepness of the climb in altitude. He looked very well on Galibier 2022, Tourmalet, Foscagno because they are not climbs very steep.

Granon, La loze( 2020 also), mottolino, he suffered way more.
 

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Depends also on the stepness of the climb in altitude. He looked very well on Galibier 2022, Tourmalet, Foscagno because they are not climbs very steep.

Granon, La loze( 2020 also), mottolino, he suffered way more.
Granon and Loze just came at the end of the stages that we have mentioned in which Tadej was affected from before. When he crossed the finish line in Mottolino, his face seemed fresh enough to climb one last climb.

By the way, Tourmalet steepness are quiet similar to Granon (a few tenths below). And Pogi cracked before the steepest parts of Loze, in 7-8 % more or less.
 
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Many things to dispute here. Let's say Gherant et all rode harder during the chase, Pog still gains 2+ min, which is still crushing. Then you have to bear in mind the stage was quite long with more vertical meters than anything he's done before in a single race. Thus sailing through on cruise control to the finish, because that's what it looked like, was nothing short of sensational. Maybe he wouldn't have dropped Vingegaard, but he's another mutant. Bar him it's hard to argue, as Horner does, anyone else would have ridden with him to the line from 15 km out.

PS: Then you have Bruyneel on the latest The Move saying exactly the opposite of Horner, namely that he thinks it was one of the best performances from Pogacar we have seen.
 
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