Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[mariosommelier]

Yeah I remember the section after San Luca when Vingegaard and Pogacar were working together and Evenepoel closed it on his own.

Pogacar put more than a minute into Remco in the last time trial at the Tour de France.

What’s your explanation for that?

 

[proffate]

If Evenepoel is at his best Pogacar will ride away easy how many times you need to be proven wrong before you realise whats right in front of your eyes?

once?

When have we seen Evenepoel, at his best, lose against Pog in a classic? Never, I think. Unless you think Lombardia 2023 counts, and that Bagioli and Vlasov are better than best Remco.

 

[velaso montador]

I also said Roglic should work for Pogacar.

Now tell me what agenda that is?

No agenda man. Your just wrong again if you think Evenepoel can get to Pogacar if he drops like he will nothing else.

Its okei someone is always wrong and never see whats right in front em em in life and someone suceed thats how it works.

 

[velaso montador]

once?

When have we seen Evenepoel, at his best, lose against Pog in a classic? Never, I think. Unless you think Lombardia 2023 counts, and that Bagioli and Vlasov are better than best Remco.

Im not gonne bother its like hopefull thinking lets admit it im all for it happening but its a awfull lot of hopefull thinking nothing else.

Thats just bottom line what it is. Lets call it what it is at least. If it happens and he can even be at the level of or remotely close to Pogacar first then lets entertain it but untill that happens its alot of hopefull thinking. Its not gonne be close.

 

[Red Rick]

Pogacar put more than a minute into Remco in the last time trial at the Tour de France.

What’s your explanation for that?

The explanation for that is it wasn't remotely flat.

 

[velaso montador]

Im all for Evenepoel rise and it happening and ebelieved in him pre tour etc and still believe im in but its simply levels to this and Pogacar is the best of all time its not a easy task:

I am all for Evenepoel doing it now I am would be perfect for everyone but its not hard to be real about it either as of now things weve seen up untill now its not exactly anything else besides hopefull thinking.
Look at every race Evenepoel have been at his best and the power output - compare it to Pogacar and you see its not really close, again why is this hard? and yes were talking one day races.

 

[Berniece]

First ever real Evenepoel vs. Pogacar one-day race battle?

WC 2022

Pogacar put more than a minute into Remco in the last time trial at the Tour de France.

What’s your explanation for that?

I don't think you understand what a rouleur is

 

[proffate]

Im not gonne bother its like hopefull thinking lets admit it im all for it happening but its a awfull lot of hopefull thinking nothing else.

Thats just bottom line what it is. Lets call it what it is at least. If it happens and he can even be at the level of or remotely close to Pogacar first then lets entertain it but untill that happens its alot of hopefull thinking. Its not gonne be close.

you clearly are gonna bother

 

[hayneplane]

Remco has had difficulty staying on the wheel of either when they are at their best. Red Rick thinks Remco could retrieve Pogacar if he attempts a 20km breakaway.....don't think so if it's anywhere near the last 20km. It's the worlds and there's no holding back on the late attacks.
On the other hand; Remco won Worlds via a long break when almost everyone sat and waited for someone else to chase. Mads Peterson won because no one thought he could stay out in that cold, wet weather with MvP. Weird sh*t can happen if there is too much fussing around and a "nobody" is given some latitude and the favorites rely on their form for the last 40km. It's not a normal pro race.

After getting burned by letting a big gap go out in Australia I don’t think Pogacar will make the same mistake twice and will be the aggressor this time.

 

[velaso montador]

Look at every race Evenepoel have been at his best and the power output - compare it to Pogacar and you see its not really close, again why is this hard? and yes were talking one day races.

One can hope thats better to say and for sure if its anyone its Evenepoel noone else. Lets hope for that thats fine but its a difference betwen hoping and to be realistic. AND im all for Evenepoel doing it that would be epic!

 

[AmRacer]

WC 2022


I don't think you understand what a rouleur is

Did they battle 2022?

 

[Fos]

Did they battle 2022?

Perhaps the only time he has ever battle in a one-day race, in any decent shape, is at WC 2023.

 

[mariosommelier]

The explanation for that is it wasn't remotely flat.

Yes, I get that.

When we compare that TT with the WC route, is it flat?

 

[mariosommelier]

WC 2022


I don't think you understand what a rouleur is

Yes, I am stupid, right?

Because this WC route is so flat, amazing for a rouleur. I must be dumb.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Look guys, I respect Pogi and Remco, and I even want them to do well, but they are as not great as Fausto Masnada, and if you say otherwise, it's just because you refuse to see what isn't in front of you. Why is this so hard for you to do? You must be biased towards being biased against him.

 

[Berniece]

Did they battle 2022?

Depends what you call a battle. They both rode it in decent condition, and one of them one.

Yes, I am stupid, right?

Because this WC route is so flat, amazing for a rouleur. I must be dumb.

That's not what was being said. Maybe read it back. They were talking about rouleur terrain in the TDF, and you said but what about the TT. That's not the same as rouleur terrain, hence me saying I don't think you know what it means.

 

[Panda Claws]

I'm all for bold predictions but it seems quite foolish to just fully double-down on the idea that Pogacar will be faster than Evenepoel on the flat. Sure, if Pogacar already dropped Remco then he is likely the stronger on that day and that may somewhat translate to the flat, but everything we've seen from the both of them (from flat TT's to breakaways) suggests that Evenepoel, as great of an all-rounder as Pogacar is, still has the edge on flat terrain.

That's a good thing too. It's more exciting if competitors have relative strengths and weaknesses.

 

[mariosommelier]

Depends what you call a battle. They both rode it in decent condition, and one of them one.


That's not what was being said. Maybe read it back. They were talking about rouleur terrain in the TDF, and you said but what about the TT. That's not the same as rouleur terrain, hence me saying I don't think you know what it means.

Yes, my point was exactly that when I was talking to RR.

This WC route is not for a rouleur like Remco, as the last TT at TDF wasn't.

 

[Berniece]

Yes, my point was exactly that when I was talking to RR.

This WC route is not for a rouleur like Remco, as the last TT at TDF wasn't.

On this terrain, this WC route, there might only be 1 rider better than Evenepoel. Pogacar. So this route is definitely for a rider like Evenepoel. Just because 1 rider might be better, doesn't mean the terrain isn't good for someone else.

 

[mariosommelier]

On this terrain, this WC route, there might only be 1 rider better than Evenepoel. Pogacar. So this route is definitely for a rider like Evenepoel. Just because 1 rider might be better, doesn't mean the terrain isn't good for someone else.

Yes, I am comparing both.

That's why I told RR about the 1 min gap between both at the TDF TT. Got it?

 

[velaso montador]

On this terrain, this WC route, there might only be 1 rider better than Evenepoel. Pogacar. So this route is definitely for a rider like Evenepoel. Just because 1 rider might be better, doesn't mean the terrain isn't good for someone else.

Exactly.

And just for the record Evenepoel is by far the second best rider AND if anyone was to do it vs Pogacar it is him, its no doubt about that. BUT its still a large task even for him to expect him to challenge Pogacar cause he simply is so good. That beeing said if it happens its perfect Evenepoel is coming and all that for sure but at the same time we need to be realistic from what weve know and seen to and Pogacar is simply on another planet, the power output simply hasnt been matched by anone in the history tahts how crazy it is nor close its that easy - that beeing said doesnt take anything away from Evenepol which ofc by a large margin is closest there is in the peloton.

And im all for him etc I truly am but lets see it first cause from all the data up untill now it doesnt say he is there yet - even though he is the second best..Dont make it hard guys one always has to stay black and white in stocks, leave the emotions and its not that hard and you can only blame yourself if you get surpised after, same applies here young ones.

 

[stekelegel]

What a lot of people don’t take into account is how much better Pogacar edition 24 is vs past years. He has taken 2 giant leaps forward. What you see all year is his amazing power and accelaration (what he always had), allowing him to create a gap almost everywhere. But his conditioning has improved so time and time again he is fresher on the top then his opponents who have killed themselves hoping to keep the wheel, allowing him to quickly create a big gap. in the tour you see this in the way he tackled descents, creating additional distance just by being fresher.

Gap will be to big for Evenepoel even if he finds his rouleur rythm.

The only thing stopping him at the worlds is a bad scenario, where a few riders like Hirschi, carapaz and Evenpoel combine to reign him in.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Babysat him in the end didn't he.

Pretty sure "babysitting" is what Kuss did for both Roglic at the Giro and Vingo at the Tour.
Anyway, let's not pollute the Pog thread with discussions of lesser riders.

 

[mariosommelier]

Pretty sure "babysitting" is what Kuss did for both Roglic at the Giro and Vingo at the Tour.
Anyway, let's not pollute the Pog thread with discussions of lesser riders.

Hahaha loved it.

 

[Oldermanish]

I think we have to take into account that Remco is relatively better one-day racer than GT rider, he's more natural in hilly/rolling terrain. This is not Plateau de Beille, where Pogacar easily prevails in sustained w/kg departement. On those short climbs Pogacar can get some gap on Remco but it's possible that the Belgian (if the gap is small enough i.e. 10-15 seconds) will overcome it on the rolling 10-km section afterwards.

Possibly, but IMO if Pogacar is in a final late-race select group and hasn't overworked; he is capable of a move that Remco couldn't follow nor catch. Probably no one would.
I get the feeling that the race will have some gaps. Favorites left in between will use up what's needed to separate from a group.