Sorry but no. Gap is massive as we saw in the Tour. Pogacar rode the Giro and still was miles ahead Roglic and Remco, only God knows how much bigger the gap would be without Giro in his legs.
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That’s only due to stage design and luck where the beatdown occurred. Both before the beatdown they received on stage 16 and 15 respectively thought they would win the overall. Pogacar then had a hard mountain stage that he crashed in before the meltdown. If Vingegaard didn’t have a rest day and flat stage to recover mentally that he wasn’t winning the overall but instead had another mountain stage we don’t know if he’d crack or not like Pogacar did.
Difference was way bigger this year than last year even if the time gap was smaller this year. Last year Pogacar really pushed Vingegaard to his limits, at least during 2 weeks. Vingegaard was dropped multiple times, this year Vingegaard only threatned Pogi in stage 11 due to a very likely bad nutrition from Pogacar. In every high mountain stage, Vingegaard was dropped. By any means, this year was a closer fight compared to last year.
So do I. But I think this would just cement Pogacar's superiority. Have we all forgotten the ease with which Pogacar followed Vingegaard's planned attack on Plateau de Beille? This all happened with a Giro in his legs - not next year.
Gap is not so big. Jonas was killing everybody in spring and comparing Jonas's crash vs Giro in Pogi's legs is just not fair. Healthy Tadej (with no stupid racing) is about 30 sek-1min faster than Jonas and about 2,5-3 min faster than healthy Roglic and Remco in race like TdF 2024.Primoz from vuelta 2023 would beat Pogi from Tour 2023 and Jonas from TdF 2024. We have never seen all 4 guys in one race all in top shape and we can't really say what really the gap is. Also if gap between Tadej and Jonas is within one minute i think Primoz and Remco could really benefit from it.
Are you sure about that? Watch stage 15 again. Pogacar was following Vingegaard's attack so easily he could sit up no hands to take a drink. Then when he decided to go Jonas had absolutely no answer. That and everything that followed in the 3rd week was with a Giro in Pogacar's legs which I say cancels Vingegaard's crash. Pogacar will be fresh for the 2025 rematch. The gap is enormous.
I love this numbers fixation...He clearly may have had some of those outputs at selective times but he didn't have the base to finish like he'd had before. He had to rely on Mateo to drag him back to Pogi's wheel on the flats, which doesn't sound like a prospective Tour winner. He was missing something then and hasn't raced since. Optimism alone doesn't tell us where he'll be. We all hope it'll be a return to form but the experiences of Remco, Bernal, Roglic...show that just getting on the bike doesn't replace the needed prep for winning a GT.
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Vingegaard also killed himself more frequently by always going the long way to try and respond to Pogacar’s attacks.
A clear sign of lacking immediate response ability (recovery) and a certain uncertainty about his own form. You don't know what you haven't tested and Visma's rush to please sponsors and their contract incentives showed in a big way. Jonas isn't built to get used like that and perform well. He probably was convinced of his "numbers" prior to the Tour but he was not prepared. That critics of Pogacar cite Jonas' breakthrough wattage metrics to confirm some illicit supplementation by Tadej is pure BS. Unless the teams are willingly handing audited data for consideration it's all speculation by guys timing the climbs on videos. What about every other effort? To your accurate observation; being late to respond is not a good sign.
Yup. But he must prepare for that during his career. He can't match Pogacar’s acceleration so he better build a huge engine to catch Pogacar later. I think the TT in Caen will be very important to Vingegaard and Pogacar. This will determine race dynamics.
Big contract. 50 millions in 6 years and a 200M clause. Dude is staying with UAE until his retirement
IF he wins MSR and RVV I can see him trying Paris-Roubaix as well
Now, the biggest question flooding this thread has been what would've and could've happened regarding this years tdf outcome: if ving has no injury prior to the race, If he had perfect preparation blabla...
*** what happened in 2023 tdf when ving had perfect preparation? Did he win based on his superior power to pog or does his win depend on pogs weaknesses on multiple back to back hard mountains with heat which made him crack in the 3rd week? For anyone who watched the tour the last years and analyzes it good its the easiest question in the world.
***** Ving has never won his tours based on 1 vs 1 pure power tests he won them due to his better recovery in the 3rd week as a result of his better adaptations to the heat
***** NOW POG HAS FIXED all his vulnerabilities with his new coach this year and it was evident to see for everybody so how on earth can ving beat him on the tour? At most he can only make the race interesting by increasing his power with perfect training and he can close the gap but winning it is very much tall order.
# Overall, a perfectly prepared vingegaard can only make the race interesting as there is no pog crack coming in the 3rd week in any grand tour!!!
END OF DISCUSSION!
*** what happened in 2023 tdf when ving had perfect preparation? Did he win based on his superior power to pog or does his win depend on pogs weaknesses on multiple back to back hard mountains with heat which made him crack in the 3rd week? For anyone who watched the tour the last years and analyzes it good its the easiest question in the world.
***** Ving has never won his tours based on 1 vs 1 pure power tests he won them due to his better recovery in the 3rd week as a result of his better adaptations to the heat
***** NOW POG HAS FIXED all his vulnerabilities with his new coach this year and it was evident to see for everybody so how on earth can ving beat him on the tour? At most he can only make the race interesting by increasing his power with perfect training and he can close the gap but winning it is very much tall order.
# Overall, a perfectly prepared vingegaard can only make the race interesting as there is no pog crack coming in the 3rd week in any grand tour!!!
END OF DISCUSSION!
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What? 🤣 visma knew they cant win against him 1vs1 so they bring 2 of the best gc riders in the world and attacked him left and right on stage 11 and since he was a kid he tried to respond to every attack as a result cracked on granon, he tried an all out desperate attack on stage 18 attacked ving 5 times on spandels brought him all the way up the climb leads him all the way down the descent(and crashed in the process) and paid for it on hautacam.
* these were the stages in 2022 where ving won. Other than those he was spanked 1vs1 all over the tour. So now you are telling me he was better than pog😁
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It's not true, except for Plateau de beille.
On Pla d'adet effort he was way below marie blanque 2023 effort.
Nevertheless, obviously with better preparation and clinical issues of 2024, he would do even better on plateau de beille. Let's not forget he was 2 weeks in intensive care.
Oh darn, maybe you are right. It would make sense he would wear his world champs stripes
there are some interesting quotes from gianetti floating around. They are leaning two grand tours again. Sounding like giro/tour double again. Throws water on the P-R talk for this year, so a big no straight from the horses mouth.
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