Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[Peyroteo94]

Vingegaard will be better than ever. My question is how much can Pogacar improve? If he improves, no one will give him a fight.

 

[YavorD]

Vingegaard will be better than ever. My question is how much can Pogacar improve? If he improves, no one will give him a fight.

There should be a limit up to where Pogacar and Vingegaard (and Evenepoel for that matter) improve. I find it hard to believe that Pogacar can improve any further (without visiting different part of the forum) and Vingegaard being 28 should be close to his limit as well.

 

[Cookster15]

There should be a limit up to where Pogacar and Vingegaard (and Evenepoel for that matter) improve. I find it hard to believe that Pogacar can improve any further (without visiting different part of the forum) and Vingegaard being 28 should be close to his limit as well.

There are always outliers. Nobody knows when Pogacar will reach his physiological peak.

Another outlier was Valverde. AV’s career longevity was off the charts. Turned pro very young and was competitive well into his late 30s. But AV was only a 2nd tier Grand Tour contender.

Another example I can think of is Cadel Evans. Cadel won the Tour at 34 but apparently his best numbers were in 2007, aged 30.

No idea when Pogacar will begin to decline but my guess would be after he turns 30.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Pogacar only has to improve if Vingo or Remco are in better shape next year than Pog was this year. Curious how realistic everyone thinks that is, because Pog was at an astronomic level in 2024.

 

[Oldermanish]

Wait... what?

1) Vingo is fine.
It's not like what happened to him was the same as Egan Bernal, who 12 months later was still struggling to stay with the "mid" group.
Jonas might've not been 100% but in 2024 he was the only one able to follow Pog on the 'San Luca', he won a stage, and ended the GT at second place.

2)Let's assume for the moment Vingegaard will only be at "90%" at the next Tour:
who else could Visma pick as a #1 TdF rider?
Outbid Redbull and offer Remco 13 million per year, betting on him improving a ton uphill?

I don't get it.

Jonas isn't "fine" until he proves his form. It's also Visma's problem if he can't.

 

[Oldermanish]

Its ironic how people consider merckx a goat and armstrong a froud when both actually got caught doping multiple times in their career with only the later getting the stick for his behavior to cover up his sh**😖 If it wasn't for his bad attitudes towards some riders we would've still considered him the greatest GT rider with 7 consecutive tdf wins🤭. Even if i'm a die hard pogi fan i wouldn't even mention his name amongst the best if he got caught doping 3 times as merckx was.

This would be funny if you didn't believe it.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar only has to improve if Vingo or Remco are in better shape next year than Pog was this year. Curious how realistic everyone thinks that is, because Pog was at an astronomic level in 2024.

Vingo may match Pogacar as far as GTs are concerned. Other than that, I see no big threat for Pog except "versatile sprinters" races like MSR or Quebec.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar only has to improve if Vingo or Remco are in better shape next year than Pog was this year. Curious how realistic everyone thinks that is, because Pog was at an astronomic level in 2024.

They are all improving year after year. If they don't improve, they will have worse results and performances. What Vingo, and specially Remco have to do is improving significantly more than Pogacar.

 

[Shortcut]

Vingo may match Pogacar as far as GTs are concerned. Other than that, I see no big threat for Pog except "versatile sprinters" races like MSR or Quebec.

I think, Pogacar wants to improve in those races. This year he won everything what he should except maybe WC. Strade, LBL, Giro, Catalunya and Montreal who was actually there to challenge him? Lombardia, Emilia where Remco and Roglic looked already tired after everything what happened this season and Tour where everybody came after big crashes except Pogi. He looked really disapointed after Quebec and MSR and he said it too. WC is other story and that is also why he looked so happy after finish line. Flanders 2023 and WC 2024 are also only races where i have see him being crazy happy and totally on the limit.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I think, Pogacar wants to improve in those races. This year he won everything what he should except maybe WC. Strade, LBL, Giro, Catalunya and Montreal who was actually there to challenge him? Lombardia, Emilia where Remco and Roglic looked already tired after everything what happened this season and Tour where everybody came after big crashes except Pogi. He looked really disapointed after Quebec and MSR and he said it too. WC is other story and that is also why he looked so happy after finish line. Flanders 2023 and WC 2024 are also only races where i have see him being crazy happy and totally on the limit.

Pogacar's focus is on attritional races and climbs. This is the way to win GTs and monuments and to build his legacy. I actually think his explosivity on very short/shallow climbs may get worse (or already did this year). Not expecting him to get better in MSR like races, unless he improves his descending (which is ok but not at the level of some MSR contenders).

 

[Pozzovivo]

Pogacar's focus is on attritional races and climbs. This is the way to win GTs and monuments and to build his legacy. I actually think his explosivity on very short/shallow climbs may get worse (or already did this year). Not expecting him to get better in MSR like races, unless he improves his descending (which is ok but not at the level of some MSR contenders).

I agree with the general point. As for MSR, I think the only thing he needs is a team that works perferctly. Good for Pog that jokers like Ulissi and Hirschi are gone. They can now mount a fully committed big-boy train on the climbs. McNulty, Bjerg, Del Torro, Wellens, and Narvaez together with Novak and Politt should do the job. Narvaez is a fantastic signing in this regard.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I agree with the general point. As for MSR, I think the only thing he needs is a team that works perferctly. Good for Pog that jokers like Ulissi and Hirschi are gone. They can now mount a fully committed big-boy train on the climbs. McNulty, Bjerg, Del Torro, Wellens, and Narvaez together with Novak and Politt should do the job. Narvaez is a fantastic signing in this regard.

Narvaez is great, I agree. Maybe Pog will get some separation on Poggio but with MVP in the race (most explosive short climbs rider and excellent descender) it's always tricky to pull off. Every year is different though and with enough number of tries Pog may get MSR one day. He still has a lot of time to get the monkey off his back and undoubtedly he will try every year.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Narvaez is great, I agree. Maybe Pog will get some separation on Poggio but with MVP in the race (most explosive short climbs rider and excellent descender) it's always tricky to pull off. Every year is different though and with enough number of tries Pog may get MSR one day. He still has a lot of time to get the monkey off his back and undoubtedly he will try every year.

I agree. Also, MVDP may not target MSR in the coming years. He seem to be more of a wildcard in his preparation for each season with CX. RVV and P-R seem to be way more important peaks for him.

 

[snipeheem]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856975907493118432

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1856975907493118432

 

[Peyroteo94]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856975907493118432

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1856975907493118432

2024 Pogacar traumatized us.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar's focus is on attritional races and climbs. This is the way to win GTs and monuments and to build his legacy. I actually think his explosivity on very short/shallow climbs may get worse (or already did this year). Not expecting him to get better in MSR like races, unless he improves his descending (which is ok but not at the level of some MSR contenders).

Where did you see this? San Vito?

 

[Extinction]

Pogacar succeeded in some races because other riders chose not to take him on directly. Not all events but the Giro was a sad promenade behind him. The Tour was a closer reality for about 2 weeks and then everyone settled into their petty fights for the lower placings. So, yes; if they do that in 2025 the results could be the same.
They will all start out healthy save for the unknowns of Vindegaard's recovery to form. That could take some time and, if it does Visma will need to be realistic and pick a #1 rider that they'll give full support.

Right, but had they taken him on they would have blown up. He that flies to close to the sun gets incinerated.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Pogacar succeeded in some races because other riders chose not to take him on directly. Not all events but the Giro was a sad promenade behind him. The Tour was a closer reality for about 2 weeks and then everyone settled into their petty fights for the lower placings. So, yes; if they do that in 2025 the results could be the same.
They will all start out healthy save for the unknowns of Vindegaard's recovery to form. That could take some time and, if it does Visma will need to be realistic and pick a #1 rider that they'll give full support.

What races?

 

[Oldermanish]

What races?

WCRR was a great example of dithering and excuses. Several American riders killed themselves to be in the mix and Ben O'Conner surprised all of us. Are those guys better than MvP, Remco, Wout....?

 

[Oldermanish]

Right, but had they taken him on they would have blown up. He that flies to close to the sun gets incinerated.

Better to give it a shot than accept staying in the field for top 20 in my book. But I raced like an amateur against pros so no dignity was lost when it came to nothing. It also gave me some breathrough results which the current state of the peloton desperately needs to counter Pogacar.

 

[YavorD]

WCRR was a great example of dithering and excuses. Several American riders killed themselves to be in the mix and Ben O'Conner surprised all of us. Are those guys better than MvP, Remco, Wout....?

But if it wasn't for Pogacar none of the riders you mentioned would win.
It would be probably someone from the big break.
Pogacar was clearly better than MvP (he couldn't even catch Healy and Skujins) and Remco. So the best rider won the race.
Could he be beaten? Of course if everyone rode together to beat him. But such situations rarely occur in cycling.

 

[Peyroteo94]

WCRR was a great example of dithering and excuses. Several American riders killed themselves to be in the mix and Ben O'Conner surprised all of us. Are those guys better than MvP, Remco, Wout....?

They were all dead! Pogacar won by sheer power.

 

[Oldermanish]

They were all dead! Pogacar won by sheer power.

His move was way early in the event and the efforts I saw from Remco were half-assed and involved much jawing at other guys to pull through. On an uphill pursuit you don't just stop working because you don't have alot of help. Remco's credentials would have him locking down in an effort he could sustain to reduce the gap. He didn't seem to do much of that from the highlighted broadcast segments I saw. Very much like the situation he won his own Worlds' RR. That, and he might have been tired and satisfied from winning 2 Olympic Golds.
That Oly RR was won pretty much like Tadej won the World's so there's that to consider.

 

[Oldermanish]

But if it wasn't for Pogacar none of the riders you mentioned would win.
It would be probably someone from the big break.
Pogacar was clearly better than MvP (he couldn't even catch Healy and Skujins) and Remco. So the best rider won the race.
Could he be beaten? Of course if everyone rode together to beat him. But such situations rarely occur in cycling.

Like when Remco won his Rainbow stripes. Just like that....

 

[yaf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1857045820253630898

View: https://x.com/eurosport/status/1857045820253630898?t=HNo-2y4sSUtJDXddSVg19w&s=19

Cant wait for a cipressa master class🤩