Question Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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It's about time we address Pogacars remarkable rise since he joined UAE in 2019.

His first season as a junior wasn't anything special, but we have to remember that he was born later in year (September) which is a disadvantage at that age.
In his second season he definitely proved his talent by winning the Giro della Lunigiana.
However, in the entire season he only won two stages and never put any distance on his competitors.
His time trial abilities were less impressive. A 25th and 68th spot.

His first season as a U23 rider wasn't too great either.
He won a few youth jerseys, but didn't record a single stage win.

His second season was definitely better, but still hit and miss.
He won the Tour de l'Avenir, but didn't record a stage win.
He also finished 7th at the WC road race.
Promising, but not exceptional.

Then he moved to UAE. Its CEO is Mauro Gianetti, possibly the dirtiest rider and sports director in history.
Suddenly he started to win stage races (Algarve, California, and individual mountain stages in the Vuelta against the likes of Valverde and Roglic.
He also became a much better time trialist beating Mohoric and Tratnik in the Slovenian championship.

Give me a break.
 
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May 18, 2012
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Well. Tonight was one of those "do you remember when" moments. Pantani, Ricci, Floyd, Schleck, Pogacar. I could go on. I'd say Floydesque

Quite sad, his DS should have told him to not make it so obvious. When he is busted , sorry, when they are busted in a few years time, inevitably, it will be quite sad. I think 2020 will be another year with a * denoting no winner recognised

So who do you think was the closest to being legitimate this tour....Yates, Quintana, Barguil?
 
That's not actually as bad as I thought it would be. 20 seconds on Porte in 16 minutes. Van Aert in third.

I know it's a cliche; but is this just a really weak field?
That's only the climb and does not account for the effort/time for the first two thirds+ of the race. TP smoked everyone. RP paced the first part and hit the climb harder, TD did better on the first part and lost on the climb (and no bike change). TP just went nuclear and put 1:21 to almost 3 into the whole tope 10.

But let's just say the rest of the field was weak ;)
 
The best joke of all: check Pogacars ITT record in 2018:

His time at the u23 race wasn't good enough to get on the juniors podium.
He was 1:11 slower than Evenepoel in the junior race who rode with restricted gears.

Such an amazing talent.
 
Rog could have beat TD in the TT (great job) and still lost the Tour. And TP lost 1+ in the crosswinds!

TD must be thinking - I sacrificed myself and wanted to be on a tour winning team and we still lost
Dumo would have had a real shot at the podium if he’d raced differently but that’s it. Just didn’t have it IMO. But still, taking a massive pay cut, domming relentlessly at the expense of your own performance, just to help a teammate get second, the same places you’d gotten a couple of years earlier after the Giro must be crushing. I think he is buds with Roglic too so is probably devastated on a personal level for him.
 
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That's only the climb and does not account for the effort/time for the first two thirds+ of the race. TP smoked everyone. RP paced the first part and hit the climb harder, TD did better on the first part and lost on the climb (and no bike change). TP just went nuclear and put 1:21 to almost 3 into the whole tope 10.

But let's just say the rest of the field was weak ;)
Well you haven't answered the question. Do you think it's a weak field or not. What would peak Froome or Thomas had done here?
 
The best joke of all: check Pogacars ITT record in 2018:

His time at the u23 race wasn't good enough to get on the juniors podium.
He was 1:11 slower than Evenepoel in the junior race who rode with restricted gears.

Such an amazing talent.
Probably dropped his stem a few mm.
 
Well you haven't answered the question. Do you think it's a weak field or not. What would peak Froome or Thomas had done here?
Sorry, did not think it was a specific question. No, I do not think it was a weak field. I think it was also a tough tour, so I think all would be knackered.

Part way through the stage I had wondered if TP had buried himself and would pay going up the climb, but given he also soared up the climb, I guess not so much!
 
I'm not really sure what that tells us to be honest. By the way, I'm not really defending Pogacar here, it's an insane, pretty unbelievable performance. But just seeing Porte and Van Aert the other two fastest climbers, does make me wonder if the GC field is a bit weak. Roglic has a history of poor TTs in the last week. And Dumoulin has been below par all race.

I have absolutely no doubts that if Froome was in Pogacar's position at the start of the day. And Roglic put in that TT. Then Froome would have taken yellow by over a minute as well.

Whether or not its a good thing comparing Pogacar with Froome though...
Which better riders aren't here and how do we define it? Roglic himself has probably been the most prominent standard in the last 2 years. It's not like a weak Dumoulin barely got beaten. Even sub top Dumoulin has an incredibly high floor in TTs and Pogacar was on level with him in the rolling part of an ITT. Froome won by consistency, team domination and being 2% better than everyone else and everything when it mattered. Pogacar just randomly decided to put 2 minutes into an intrinsically better ITTer than him.
 
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Which better riders aren't here and how do we define it? Roglic himself has probably been the most prominent standard in the last 2 years. It's not like a weak Dumoulin barely got beaten. Even sub top Dumoulin has an incredibly high floor in TTs and Pogacar was on level with him in the rolling part of an ITT. Froome won by consistency, team domination and being 2% better than everyone else and everything when it mattered. Pogacar just randomly decided to put 2 minutes into an intrinsically better ITTer than him.
I think it's a bit about context as well. For example, Roglic is an amazing time triallist, in the first two weeks of stage races. Not all that great in the third week.

Dumoulin and Roglic rode the climb slower than Van Aert, Barguil, Landa, Martinez, Mas, Bilbao etc... And barely beat an injured Quintana on the climb. They clearly were quite a long way from their best here.

I think we should try to put Pogacar's ride into some perspective. And shouldn't pretend that he put a minute or two into the best Dumoulin or the best Roglic.
 
Sorry, did not think it was a specific question. No, I do not think it was a weak field. I think it was also a tough tour, so I think all would be knackered.

Part way through the stage I had wondered if TP had buried himself and would pay going up the climb, but given he also soared up the climb, I guess not so much!
Yeah, this is what surprised me the most as well. Most GC riders were quite a bit below their best; some like Lopez and Valverde absolutely bombed. Pogacar's rode it like it was early on in the Dauphine or something, just looked so much fresher.
 
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