Question Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Roglic and Jumbo simply were a bit too caught up in their own self-confidence. Roglics attitude to his equipment before it saying "I don't give a ***, everything is good", the bike change, the visor, the equipment and gearing choice compared to Pogcar is blatantly obvious with hindsight.
 
This quote by Dumoulin, during TDF (in a TJV documentary) is rather hilarious:

"Ik word tweede achter een renner die als een mijnwerker op zijn fiets zit. Dat snap ik gewoon niet", zegt hij in de ploegauto. "Ik heb geen idee hoe ik anderhalve minuut sneller had kunnen rijden. "
--
"I'm second behind a rider who's positioned on his bike like a mine-worker. I just don't get it. I have no idea how i could have gone a minute and a half faster."
 
Because Pantanis records is supposed to last forever?
He was so much of an outlier (for a number of reasons, one of course being massive EPO use) nobody has come close to most of his times since. The last person to ride Alpe d'huez in less than 40 minutes was Carlos Sastre in 2008, while Pantani did it in 36'40". Armstrong needed an ITT just to break 38 mins FFS. I was a big fan of Sastre, but nobody going faster than him since, even with improvements in materials and frame design speaks volumes.

So yeah, unless massive changes in frame design that greatly change climbing speeds are introduced, nobody has any business seriously challenging Pantani's records while saying they're clean.
 
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He was so much of an outlier (for a number of reasons, one of course being massive EPO use) nobody has come close to most of his times since. The last person to ride Alpe d'huez in less than 40 minutes was Carlos Sastre in 2008, while Pantani did it in 36'40". Armstrong needed an ITT just to break 38 mins FFS. I was a big fan of Sastre, but nobody going faster than him since, even with improvements in materials and frame design speaks volumes.

So yeah, unless massive changes in frame design that greatly change climbing speeds are introduced, nobody has any business seriously challenging Pantani's records while saying they're clean.
Quintana in both 2013 and 2015 and Purito in 2013 did Alpe under 40 minutes too, but that small detail aside I agree with your point.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/07/
 
Because Pantanis records is supposed to last forever?
Peak Performances by the very best athletes & best responders that occurred during the period of unbridled use of a potent performance enhancer (before better testing/restrictions began to reduce use of that PED) sometimes DO seem to last forever. To wit, in the Olympic events in women’s track & field, I think the world records for 7-8 of those events (the power/ speed events) are STILL held by Eastern European women who set the marks in the 1980s, when their national sports organizations pumped them full of anabolic steroids. No record lasts forever, it’s true, but Marita Koch’s 400 meters record could last a lifetime.

Likewise for the women’s shot and discus, where not just the record, but all the top ten performances of all time, were set by Eastern European women during the 1980s.
 
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Quintana in both 2013 and 2015 and Purito in 2013 did Alpe under 40 minutes too, but that small detail aside I agree with your point.

http://www.climbing-records.com/2015/07/
I forgot Quintana and Rodriguez just snuck under 40 mins in 2013 :/

That 2015 ride was epic from Quintana, and he was still 2'42" slower than Pantani, who was going for the stage while Quintana was pushing for a miracle to win the Tour
 

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