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I'd agree with all of that. If he was JUST simply doping his own body then they have found a magic potion capable of producing performances and watts never seen before.Until now I've mostly steered free of participation in this thread.
This, as I prefer to stick to factual information and not conspiracy theories.
I.e., apart from my post after RvV '22 and my observations of his, in my eyes, highly suspicious final passage of Oude Kwaremont, which I have tried on my own body several times in attack mode and sections where I know the riders struggle with it - just as except for Pogi who for each of these small sections seemed to fly flawlessly over them as if he had a cushion of air in his tyres, gaining 2-3 secs each time.
But since Saturday the thoughts has been nagging violently in my head, hence finally I feel compelled to "unload" here.
My clear suspicion is some sort of motor doping, of which the UCI inspectors in an imperceptible way cannot catch during control checks.
Here my thoughts in particular have hovered about some kind of "a dynamic passive motor device" and not a static active motor.
After Lombardia and his chat with the motorcycle while in full attack, I don't even think the strongest biological syrup-plutonium diet can do it.
And can also be genetic doping. And then you don't need that many extra watts from a passive device to make the huge difference, everybody else being in fully red zone.
Or even worse:
An UAE-UCI collaboration à la Lance-Verbrüggen's "success collaboration".
Tacit acceptance with good dining from the UAE in your pocket and Gianetti as the wizard.
Toxic diet.
And although his competitors have been very diplomatic in interviews, it shows that they are not satisfied with the situation.
For example I noticed Jorgensen's Strava upload the other day (I think it was after the Giro dell'Emilia) titled "Zone 2 "
Argh, trying to write myself out of it didn't get any better.
Thanks God, it's winter break now.
Nota bene:
Sorry if these thoughts have already been reversed here and you have come closer to a clearer picture.
I will read up later.
Until now I've mostly steered free of participation in this thread.
This, as I prefer to stick to factual information and not conspiracy theories.
I.e., apart from my post after RvV '22 and my observations of his, in my eyes, highly suspicious final passage of Oude Kwaremont, which I have tried on my own body several times in attack mode and sections where I know the riders struggle with it - just as except for Pogi who for each of these small sections seemed to fly flawlessly over them as if he had a cushion of air in his tyres, gaining 2-3 secs each time.
But since Saturday the thoughts has been nagging violently in my head, hence finally I feel compelled to "unload" here.
My clear suspicion is some sort of motor doping, of which the UCI inspectors in an imperceptible way cannot catch during control checks.
Here my thoughts in particular have hovered about some kind of "a dynamic passive motor device" and not a static active motor.
After Lombardia and his chat with the motorcycle while in full attack, I don't think even the strongest biological syrup-plutonium diet can do it.
And can also be genetic doping. And then you don't need that many extra watts from a passive device to make the huge difference, everybody else being in fully red zone.
Or even worse:
An UAE-UCI collaboration à la Lance-Verbrüggen's "success collaboration".
Tacit acceptance with good dining from the UAE in your pocket and Gianetti as the wizard.
Toxic diet.
And although his competitors have been very diplomatic in interviews, it shows that they are not satisfied with the situation.
For example I noticed Jorgensen's Strava upload the other day (I think it was after the Giro dell'Emilia) titled "Zone 2 "
Argh, trying to write myself out of it didn't get any better.
Thanks God, it's winter break now.
Nota bene:
Sorry if these thoughts have already been reversed here and you have come closer to a clearer picture.
I will read up later.
Why not UAE "influencing" WADA instead of UCI? UCI follow WADA's rules after all and there's a lot of secrecy with testing.Conspiracies happen all the time, sports is no exception - far from it. The UCI, the UAE, the Mauro Gianetti... Doesn't seem like a stretch at all. Also perhaps the UCI have caught Pogacar and are furious, but they don't dare going public with it out of fear for their sport. And UAE are banking on that.
Mainly because I was only talking about motors...Why not UAE "influencing" WADA instead of UCI? UCI follow WADA's rules after all and there's a lot of secrecy with testing.
The impact is bigger when climbing. This is because on the flats the dominant force is drag while on a mountain climb it's gravity. in math terms: power ~ velocity^3 on the flats while on a steep climb power ~ velocity. An example: a 400 watt effort + 40 watt coming from a motor results approximately in a 3% speed increase on the flat and a 10% on a steep climb.I'd started to think motors seriously when I started seeing huge gaps being pulled on flat sections. Vinge did it in Combloux as well. Pog did it on Saturday in Lombardia. It's like these riders are flying.
The F1 cost cap of $135 million does not include driver salaries, three highest-paid staff members salaries, travel expenses, marketing, bonuses and more. Even now, the big teams spend over $300 million a year. Max's or Hamilton's salary alone is bigger than the UAE's entire annual cycling budget. Next year at Ferrari, Hamilton will earn twice as much as the UAE's yearly budget. Even Adrian Newey will earn more than UAE's budget.Nah, I still don't believe you can hide a motor system generating significant boost. If true that would already have been tried in Formula 1 with far bigger budgets than even UAE (Formula 1 team budgets are restricted to $US 135mil). UAE's budget is €55 million to €60 million.
If we compare Pogacar 2023 to Pogacar 2024, he is 100% out of nowhere.
His riding on flats during solos has improved dramatically this year. He was never a top flat rider, TT or otherwise, but now is able to put minutes on everyone, even when they work together and don’t burn themselves trying to follow on the climb.
This is like watching an elite power lifter who has the best squat and deadlift but only a top 15 bench for years suddenly become the bench WR holder.
The F1 cost cap of $135 million does not include driver salaries, three highest-paid staff members salaries, travel expenses, marketing, bonuses and more. Even now, the big teams spend over $300 million a year. Max's or Hamilton's salary alone is bigger than the UAE's entire annual cycling budget. Next year at Ferrari, Hamilton will earn twice as much as the UAE's yearly budget. Even Adrian Newey will earn more than UAE's budget.
Cycling is such a low-cost sport compared to top-level sports, but somehow the 'clinic' regulars are convinced that this sport is the main driving force for undetectable small motors and batteries that can deliver significant performance (+ gene doping). Kids are watching too many dumb hollywood movies these days....
If we compare Froome 2011 early August to Froome 2011 late August, he is 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% out of nowhere https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/christopher-froome/2011
He doesn't really beat others by minutes, his World Championship win was much less convincing than Remco or MvdP before him
Nah, I still don't believe you can hide a motor system generating significant boost. If true that would already have been tried in Formula 1 with far bigger budgets than even UAE (Formula 1 team budgets are restricted to $US 135mil). UAE's budget is €55 million to €60 million.
A big motor and battery set up would need the frame and you would see them using an x-ray but if you can put it in the hub of the rear wheel you could hide it from detection. A 50 watt bldc motor weights 100g. An optimized lipo battery delivering 50 watts during 30 min adds another 100g. Add gears and a motor controller and you end up with ~300g in a compact package.So how could you avoid detection when motor doping?
I don't think they do bike changes while Pogacar is cruising to victory (not sure, though).
- Change bikes before the finish
- Remove the motor from the bike after the finish
- Shield the motor from x-rays
- Make the motor look unsuspicious on x-ray photos
- "Conspiracy"
The second one honestly seems like it could work - would explain Pogacar clinging on to his bike after Worlds.
I simply don't know enough about x-ray photography of bikes to say anything one way or another.
Conspiracies happen all the time, sports is no exception - far from it. The UCI, the UAE, the Mauro Gianetti... Doesn't seem like a stretch at all. Also perhaps the UCI have caught Pogacar and are furious, but they don't dare going public with it out of fear for their sport. And UAE are banking on that.
By it looking normal on x-ray photos, or by it being shielded from x-rays in the hub, or by simply changing the wheel before the test?but if you can put it in the hub of the rear wheel you could hide it from detection
By being much more difficult to see and recognize on the x-ray due to its fitting in the aluminium hub with also the metal axle inside and the cassette blocking the frontal view. I don't know if it works but I assume they are more focussed on the frame to look for tube motors and batteries.By it looking normal on x-ray photos, or by it being shielded from x-rays in the hub, or by simply changing the wheel before the test?
Not if you use it to make a big gap first and use it stay within lactate thresholds to stay relatively fresh compared to the others. Keeping the gap is indeed difficult against a group if the battery is finally drained. During the WC RR he had difficulties to keep the gap and he looked exhausted at the finish so maybe he miscalculated his effort ;-)So then the only person you can rule out of the whole field who uses a motor is Pogacar, because that would surely be the stupidest way to use a small limited motor for a 100km/long solo victories
Did the same at Worlds...Might be nothing, but on the finish straight of Lombardia Poggie is at one point very focused on pressing the bike computer off. He does it many times, almost like wanting to make sure something is off before he lifts his bike in the air for celebration. I was wondering it even live and checked again to make sure. Propably just shutting it early cause of the celebration, but still looked a bit out of the ordinary compared to the way the riders normally stop their ride recording.
Like I said propably nothing, but I immediately thought about the motor theory 😅
A little bit of power helps a lot if you want to keep a high speed on the flat. I often ride an e-bike, and the e-assist makes a big difference when I ride just below its 25km/h limit, even when I practically don't use it.use a small limited motor for a 100km/long solo
It doesn't make any sense then, mate. The small motor + small battery you described will hardly help at all. Guys working together behind you in the slipstream will probably save more than the motor will give. If you are using a motor you will want to decide the race close to the finish. There is absolutely no point in risking an extremely long solo effort.Not if you use it to make a big gap first and use it stay within lactate thresholds to stay relatively fresh compared to the others. Keeping the gap is indeed difficult against a group if the battery is finally drained. During the WC RR he had difficulties to keep the gap and he looked exhausted at the finish so maybe he miscalculated his effort ;-)
A little bit of power helps a lot if you want to keep a high speed on the flat. I often ride an e-bike, and the e-assist makes a big difference when I ride just below its 25km/h limit, even when I practically don't use it.
Is this really the case? I say very few even new fans take any notice of what commentators say. I mean I've been watching pro cycling since about 1992 during the unrestricted EPO era. Back then we all accepted they were doping. The world's most famous cycling commentator Phil Liggett was saying the peloton was clean back in 1992! That doesn't mean he or anyone else anyone believed it. I don't believe fans or new people to the sport are that stupid or can't have a basic understanding of sports physiology - like how a clean rider can destroy climbing times from the EPO era.then when the commentators remind them we’re not in the past anymore and everyone is clean now, they continue watching and forget about it.
So, according to you, a motor giving him say 50-70, or even 30-40, watts wouldn't help? Well, I've got news for you, it would be a game changer.It doesn't make any sense then, mate. The small motor + small battery you described will hardly help at all. Guys working together behind you in the slipstream will probably save more than the motor will give. If you are using a motor you will want to decide the race close to the finish. There is absolutely no point in risking an extremely long solo effort.
But he's on a 7kg bike, not a 14kg e-bike with a 4kg motor and a 2kg battery
Pog posts his rides on Strava. More likely he was saving the ride.Might be nothing, but on the finish straight of Lombardia Poggie is at one point very focused on pressing the bike computer off. He does it many times, almost like wanting to make sure something is off before he lifts his bike in the air for celebration. I was wondering it even live and checked again to make sure. Propably just shutting it early cause of the celebration, but still looked a bit out of the ordinary compared to the way the riders normally stop their ride recording.
Like I said propably nothing, but I immediately thought about the motor theory 😅
In the english speaking world. When someone like Johan Bruyneel recently says Pogacar is clean and that its all down to superior talent, you just know we're being taken for fools.Is this really the case? I say very few even new fans take any notice of what commentators say. I mean I've been watching pro cycling since about 1992 during the unrestricted EPO era. Back then we all accepted they were doping. The world's most famous cycling commentator Phil Liggett was saying the peloton was clean back in 1992! That doesn't mean he or anyone else anyone believed it. I don't believe fans or new people to the sport are that stupid or can't have a basic understanding of sports physiology - like how a clean rider can destroy climbing times from the EPO era.