Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[YellowSocks]

old fashioned "medical preparations"

Old fashioned? In David Cronenberg' style then

 

[danielovichdk2]

Colnago claims that with the new bike Pogi will do 20 watts more at 50 km/h. That's exactly what he needs to be competitive Honestly, I can't believe the VR4s was that bad. 20 watts extra is what I expect a small motor would do.

Why not 19 or 21 watts ? Why 20 ?

 

[danielovichdk2]

I can't remember if I have stated this before. But really, it would be super easy to figure all this out if UCI did 2 things before a race, and 2 things after the race. All discussion would end.

Pre-race:

1. Weigh every rider wearing only underwear. Just like in combat sports.
2. Take a small blood sample.

Post-race:

1. Riders were to deliver their computers, UCI to collect the data. Data should be made public available.
2. Take another blood sample

That would eliminate pretty much all talk about doping and what people see as strange performances.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Why not 19 or 21 watts ? Why 20 ?

Maybe hidden motor specification. Round numbers sell better.

 

[Salvarani]

I can't remember if I have stated this before. But really, it would be super easy to figure all this out if UCI did 2 things before a race, and 2 things after the race. All discussion would end.

Pre-race:

1. Weigh every rider wearing only underwear. Just like in combat sports.
2. Take a small blood sample.

Post-race:

1. Riders were to deliver their computers, UCI to collect the data. Data should be made public available.
2. Take another blood sample

That would eliminate pretty much all talk about doping and what people see as strange performances.

Time and money rules though. This will just never happen.

And the individual has rights as well.

I dont think that would be allowed.

 

[Unchained]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What?

You'd have to keep all fiddling with motors hidden (obviously). You could do this by locking the door to a van, or closing off a tent, having someone at the entrance.

Neutral support don't do much? They (attempt to) change tyres once in a while? That's not a major issue.

Don't see the problem.

Yeah, there's a lot of space in bikes, it seems. Also: What's your point?

Uh, huh... What're you trying to say?

What happens to crashed bikes? Do the UCI take them? Race organizers? I would've guessed the teams took them...

Yep. They don't disassemble the bikes. So they don't detect anything. I don't find the inspections "satisfactory".

Why wouldn't mechanics spring into action? Team doctors have... Has any position on a cycling team not had a colleague busted for participating in cheating?

Of course. Minimize risk, maximize gain.

They sure have a habit of doing this, don't they?

I'm not sure that's always necessary, but I also don't see why they couldn't or wouldn't do that. After the race? By team staff? What else...

You're fast and loose with your proposed issues with the logistics involved. You wrote no actual arguments... All innuendo.

I think CN is being responsible by covering founded "conspiracy" suspicions.

Apropos of "ghost stories," have you even listened to Ghost in the Machine? It's a bit rich saying that something is unfounded if you haven't sought out the good reason there are to suspicious.

The only response that can be reasonable to you position.. Was there any cases of motor doping in Conti level or World Tour teams or events? Have amateur ranks including US and Western Europe seeing lots of results, or wins using motor doping? Are riders,teams or mechanics going public with their team, their competitors using motor doping? Out of the thousands of random bike checks at velodromes, road events, mountain bike races, grand fondos and gravel events finding lots( any) widespread evidence of motor doping used in winning or losing riders?Are manufacturers seeing failure and warranty data consistent with pedal bikes being fitted with electric motors? Are Shimano harnesses being modified to not only power momentary shifting actuators to instead power DC stepper motors or brushless motors intended for constant use under a load? Are thousands of riders noticing people with bar mounted controls inconsistent with Sram, Campy or Shimano during training, transport, repairs or racing?

 

[Casual cyclist]

If motors have been used, then since the UCI have been going nuts about them, I doubt any top team would use them, but have since gone back to old fashioned "medical preparations". No point having University profs on the team and not using their expertise.
Then again, a large wad of cash to the right person is always helpful.

That "going nuts" could well be -- and most likely, given the totality of evidence in this particular instance, is -- just the proverbial smoke screen, the purpose of which is just that: to lead one to the conclusion along the lines of "I doubt any top team would use them". Incidentally, just recently I read somewhere on these pages about UCI accepting UAE money in some form. I do not recall the details, but it would definitely make a lot of sense if were indeed true.

 

[Unchained]

That "going nuts" could well be -- and most likely, given the totality of evidence in this particular instance, is -- just the proverbial smoke screen, the purpose of which is just that: to lead one to the conclusion along the lines of "I doubt any top team would use them". Incidentally, just recently I read somewhere on these pages about UCI accepting UAE money in some form. I do not recall the details, but it would definitely make a lot of sense if were indeed true.

So are you saying it's pay to play for UAE? Or that UAE is paying the bill and coordinating the response for participants in motor doping and the governing bodies who check for it..down to someone's mom who does bike checks at office park criteriums, or the old guys in Belgium who go to the bar before and after races? They are all in on keeping the global electric bike secret?
How are other teams beating UAE if they don't have electric motors? Are UAE forgetting charging cords on some days? Are their mechanics short on time to switch from pedaled to powered before or during the races? Please do tell..
I have done race officiating and motorcycle support and in race camera work and nobody ever has said, " hey if you see any motor doping don't say anything.. You know UAE and UCI have an agreement "

 

[topt]

Why not 19 or 21 watts ? Why 20 ?

actually it is 19

 

[topt]

Colnago claims that with the new bike Pogi will do 20 watts more at 50 km/h. That's exactly what he needs to be competitive Honestly, I can't believe the VR4s was that bad. 20 watts extra is what I expect a small motor would do.

the new bike is also 400g heavier; I am quite sure they will use old one for climbing; its all about balance betwen aero and weight; UAE decided to go the Cervelo way using 2 bikes

 

[topt]

reading after a few months this again; ha ha ha; accusations get more ridiculus every month; new aero bike to hide motor ?
really; ha ha ha
oh BTW, this year I finally got UCI judge license so will be looking over disassembling of bikes; if any UAE guy is reading this please send me offer by PM

 

[Casual cyclist]

So are you saying it's pay to play for UAE? Or that UAE is paying the bill and coordinating the response for participants in motor doping and the governing bodies who check for it..down to someone's mom who does bike checks at office park criteriums, or the old guys in Belgium who go to the bar before and after races? They are all in on keeping the global electric bike secret?

That's a bit irrelevant to the question of the true source of Tuddy's miraculous hypersonic no-sweat performances throughout this year, isn't it?

How are other teams beating UAE if they don't have electric motors? Are UAE forgetting charging cords on some days? Are their mechanics short on time to switch from pedaled to powered before or during the races? Please do tell..

Did anyone say that the the whole UAE gang was on motors in all races? On the other hand, those other teams have had quite limited success beating the certain bidons-to-young-fans-gifting UAE member this year, haven't they?

I have done race officiating and motorcycle support and in race camera work and nobody ever has said, " hey if you see any motor doping don't say anything.. You know UAE and UCI have an agreement "

Would you seriously expect them to make such an announcement to all race officials in all races?

 

[Casual cyclist]

reading after a few months this again; ha ha ha; accusations get more ridiculus every month; new aero bike to hide motor ?
really; ha ha ha

Right on, dear sir. As was noted on these very pages by several posters, this year, we have successfully entered an ahaha era in pro cycling.

oh BTW, this year I finally got UCI judge license so will be looking over disassembling of bikes; if any UAE guy is reading this please send me offer by PM

Great news! I feel relieved that race officiating will be in the right hands going forward.

 

[Rob5091]

oh BTW, this year I finally got UCI judge license so will be looking over disassembling of bikes; if any UAE guy is reading this please send me offer by PM

Just out of interest in a serious way, what happens if a motor is found? What is the protocol?

 

[peterfin]

Just out of interest in a serious way, what happens if a motor is found? What is the protocol?

The 'cover-up' protocol?

 

[topt]

Right on, dear sir. As was noted on these very pages by several posters, this year, we have successfully entered an ahaha era in pro cycling.

Great news! I feel relieved that race officiating will be in the right hands going forward.

so we are sticking with the new aero bike to hide motor, are we ?
it was always in the right hand but people like to make up stuff to find it more interesting

 

[topt]

The 'cover-up' protocol?

for sure; I never dealt with this but here is what the manual says if you find a motor go back to hotel room and wait for team official. He will bring you a suitcase with money inside, you open it and if you ok with amount just nod, no words must be ever spoken.

BTW still no PMs; UAE if you want to continue with this sham that is "killing cycling" I am right here.

 

[topt]

Just out of interest in a serious way, what happens if a motor is found? What is the protocol?

file a report and call senior UCI official at the race.
So for start UCI mechanic, UCI judge observer and senior official would have to be paid.

 

[Rob5091]

for sure; I never dealt with this but here is what the manual says if you find a motor go back to hotel room and wait for team official. He will bring you a suitcase with money inside, you open it and if you ok with amount just nod, no words must be ever spoken.

BTW still no PMs; UAE if you want to continue with this sham that is "killing cycling" I am right here.

Apart from the suitcase full of money, there is the other way of making someone an offer he cann't refuse ...normaly beginning with being told they know where you and your family live.

 

[Casual cyclist]

A new article on Cycling news: about a crazy expensive X-ray and a former homeland security (no less!) investigator teaming up to put an unpenetrable barrier on the path of any possible sneaky cunning motor dopers. Whew, We can sleep well now being 100% sure that the soon coming 100K no sweat solo rides and the rest of otherworldly exploits of the porridge eating prodigy are due to just the good old natural talent. Thank god!

 

[Tim Cahill]

Everyone here is going to be well disappointed when they're just doing good old tried and true EPO and roids and these guys just found some weird hokey way to beat the tests again by rubbing an onion on the injection spot or something. Not an exhaust fume, lugworm or hidden Duracell battery in sight.

I remember Ferarri realising you could beat a testosterone positive by mixing it with olive oil, classic Italians.

 

[Casual cyclist]

Everyone here is going to be well disappointed when they're just doing good old tried and true EPO and roids and these guys just found some weird hokey way to beat the tests again by rubbing an onion on the injection spot or something. Not an exhaust fume, lugworm or hidden Duracell battery in sight.

I remember Ferarri realising you could beat a testosterone positive by mixing it with olive oil, classic Italians.

Oh, I am sure that, should anything ever officially "come out" for any reason, it will be just that, like with Lance. No way they are going to admit to motor doping at the top, e.g. the Red Nose having been doing it for his "miracle" rides. In the worst case, it could be some random guy from a small team getting "caught" just to show that "the system works", As to real motor doping, it could become a kind of an open secret in due time but will never be officially admitted to.

 

[pastronef]

when I think about the motor doping conspiracy I think about Floyd Landis. he could have sunk the pro cycling circus and he didn't... cause there were no flipping motors

 

[zlev11]

when I think about the motor doping conspiracy I think about Floyd Landis. he could have sunk the pro cycling circus and he didn't... cause there were no flipping motors

because he didn't race during the motor era.

 

[pastronef]

because he didn't race during the motor era.

well I remember long discussions about Lance's alleged motor