Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Bardet on the race so far:

Romain Bardet: This is the highest-level Tour de France of my career

'We’re breaking climbing records on every col we go up on this Tour'

www.cyclingnews.com

Maybe fmk_Rol can find a way to downvote Bardet for saying such crazy things.

So what Bardet is saying, is that if all the others woulde be riding as fast as they were last year, he would be in yellow and leading with a few minutes?

I also think it's not evident to compare this year due to covid. Less races, no classics yet. On top of first week climbs (which is usually never the case in TDF) i do believe some riders would be more fresh than in other years.

 

[Escarabajo]

As some people have said, he reminds me of Ricco.

 

[red_flanders]

So what Bardet is saying, is that if all the others woulde be riding as fast as they were last year, he would be in yellow and leading with a few minutes?

He doesn’t say that and that does not at all appear to be his point. It sounds like a reasonable inference to make from his comments, but I’m not sure why it’s relevant.

I also think it's not evident to compare this year due to covid. Less races, no classics yet. On top of first week climbs (which is usually never the case in TDF) i do believe some riders would be more fresh than in other years.

It seems to me most top Tour riders optimize their prep for the Tour most years. Do we think most riders who are specifically prepping for the Tour consistently come into it not “fresh”? I think that’s a tough argument to make. It’s a fair question but I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny. It seems far more likely that some riders are coming into this Tour undertrained, which explains some of the rather poor performances of a few who have fallen away or who were not selected.

If one accepts what Bardet and others are saying about the level, and given what we’re seeing I have no reason to doubt them, one must ask why. More fresh isn’t convincing to me. A summer with little or no testing leaves open a much simpler explanation. “Preparation” was at a higher level than in previous years. While this is obviously a hypothesis without confirmation, it seems to map to what we‘re seeing quite well.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He doesn’t say that and that does not at all appear to be his point. It sounds like a reasonable inference to make from his comments, but I’m not sure why it’s relevant.



It seems to me most top Tour riders optimize their prep for the Tour most years. Do we think most riders who are specifically prepping for the Tour consistently come into it not “fresh”? I think that’s a tough argument to make. It’s a fair question but I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny. It seems far more likely that some riders are coming into this Tour undertrained, which explains some of the rather poor performances of a few who have fallen away or who were not selected.

If one accepts what Bardet and others are saying about the level, and given what we’re seeing I have no reason to doubt them, one must ask why. More fresh isn’t convincing to me. A summer with little or no testing leaves open a much simpler explanation. “Preparation” was at a higher level than in previous years. While this is obviously a hypothesis without confirmation, it seems to map to what we‘re seeing quite well.

And yet it still doesn't explain why Bardet can suddenly follow a pace that according to himself, is higher than previous years, when he wasn't able to follow.

 

[red_flanders]

And yet it still doesn't explain why Bardet can suddenly follow a pace that according to himself, is higher than previous years, when he wasn't able to follow.

Can you explain why not?

 

[fmk_RoI]

And yet it still doesn't explain why Bardet can suddenly follow a pace that according to himself, is higher than previous years, when he wasn't able to follow.

He's doping. same as Podge and Rodge, and Bernal, and Landa, and Porte, and Mollema, and Quintana, and Uran, and Yates and Martin. They're all on the same programme. Isn't that obvious from what's being said by folk here? Only thing I find odd about that is Mollema seems to be the only dom in on the programme.

 

[GuntherL]

Like I hinted earlier, Pogačar reminds me of Ricco somewhat.

In was able to accelerate several times in subsequent mountain stages.

He's doping. same as Podge and Rodge, and Bernal, and Landa, and Porte, and Mollema, and Quintana, and Uran, and Yates and Martin. They're all on the same programme. Isn't that obvious from what's being said by folk here? Only thing I find odd about that is Mollema seems to be the only dom in on the programme.

No, it isn’t obvious. This thread is about one rider climbing better than everyone else without a clear explanation. If they’re all on the same programme, explain to me why Pogacar dropped lightweight climbers like Bernal and Quintana on the Peyresourde.

 

[Bonimenier]

No, it isn’t obvious. This thread is about one rider climbing better than everyone else without a clear explanation. If they’re all on the same programme, explain to me why Pogacar dropped lightweight climbers like Bernal and Quintana on the Peyresourde.

You expect everyone to climb equally well?

 

[F_Cance]

you expect everyone to dope equally well?

 

[Escarabajo]

He's doping. same as Podge and Rodge, and Bernal, and Landa, and Porte, and Mollema, and Quintana, and Uran, and Yates and Martin. They're all on the same programme. Isn't that obvious from what's being said by folk here? Only thing I find odd about that is Mollema seems to be the only dom in on the programme.

I think they are all different programs!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Can you explain why not?

I would say his impressions are likely just that, impressions. That they are subjective to circumstances and not factual. Otherwise he would be minutes behind by now, according to his own analysis. You can't really take this as any sort of indication. "They are riding so much harder compared to other years when i wasn't able to follow, but now i am actually able to follow". Unless he's making a silent confession?

 

[red_flanders]

I would say his impressions are likely just that, impressions. That they are subjective to circumstances and not factual. Otherwise he would be minutes behind by now, according to his own analysis. You can't really take this as any sort of indication. "They are riding so much harder compared to other years when i wasn't able to follow, but now i am actually able to follow". Unless he's making a silent confession?

He's neither making a confession or an accusation. He's simply stating that the overall level is higher, and that he's also riding faster and enjoying it. As I said before it's early, and we'll see how things shake out over 3 weeks.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He's neither making a confession or an accusation. He's simply stating that the overall level is higher, and that he's also riding faster and enjoying it. As I said before it's early, and we'll see how things shake out over 3 weeks.

Than i'm having difficulties understanding what exactly is the point of bringing this up repeatedly. We already knew for months the level would be higher. It's clearly not high enough for Bardet to get dropped, like last year.

 

[red_flanders]

Than i'm having difficulties understanding what exactly is the point of bringing this up repeatedly. We already knew for months the level would be higher. It's clearly not high enough for Bardet to get dropped, like last year.

I think I've brought it up once? I've certainly commented on it more than that.

Again, as Bardet himself says in the article above, his own level is much higher this year. I feel like you're making this more complicated than it is.

 

[samhocking]

Didn't Bardet beat Vino's record with Pogacar that day too? Everyone more or less appears to be on a higher level - both highly suspected of doping and less suspected, so chances are nothing's really changed other than everyone had about 3 months of highly numbers-orientated, non-interupted turbo training without race fatigue, flights or media stress. Pogacar lets see. Someone has to come through and shine at some point doping or not.

 

[Saint Unix]

Both the Slovenians are completely ridiculous. On a completely different level compared to the rest of the pack.

 

[Ripper]

Both the Slovenians are completely ridiculous. On a completely different level compared to the rest of the pack.

LOL! It is an interesting thing, albeit an incredibly small sample size!

 

[Escarabajo]

LOL! It is an interesting thing, albeit an incredibly small sample size!

At least is 100% of them!

 

[Ripper]

At least is 100% of them!

Yup! I mean, it looks terrible. But then again, it's two people, so does it really?! It'll be interesting to see how folks are firing over the course of week 3. TP may explode, but then again, it could get totally nuclear.

It's entertaining that world tour level cycling seems to defy so much of what you expect from sports science, and what you see when you race at a lower level. Perhaps it's just next level human physiology, or may be just next level full ret@rd.

 

[Red Rick]

Yup! I mean, it looks terrible. But then again, it's two people, so does it really?! It'll be interesting to see how folks are firing over the course of week 3. TP may explode, but then again, it could get totally nuclear.

It's entertaining that world tour level cycling seems to defy so much of what you expect from sports science, and what you see when you race at a lower level. Perhaps it's just next level human physiology, or may be just next level full ret@rd.

I think it's a 20% better training and 80% simply being ahead in the nuclear arms race where the dots between novel compounds and PED use haven't been connected yet.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I remember reading something about a Slovenian network roughly two years ago. But i can't remember any specifics. I'm not even sure which sport. Does anybody know what i could be remembering?

Seriously, there is something in the back of my head.

As for how suspicious yesterday was, Porte and Landa did finish only a few seconds down. It's te Colombians that seem to be suffering. Iirc, they were among the ones who couldn't train outside for a long period during lockdown? Also Quintana crashed again?

EDIT: i think this was it https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mo...red-between-erzen-and-aderlass-doping-doctor/

 

[fmk_RoI]

I remember reading something about a Slovenian network roughly two years ago. But i can't remember any specifics. I'm not even sure which sport. Does anybody know what i could be remembering?

This?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This?

I editted my post, i think that was what i was getting at. The name rings a bell.

 

[fmk_RoI]

And now someone will remind us that Eržen was Roglič's boss at Adria Mobil (2013-2015) before signing with Jumbo.

 

[durianrider]

Both the Slovenians are completely ridiculous. On a completely different level compared to the rest of the pack.

Bro rim rakes dominat the top 3 and this years TDF.

There are officially 2 speeds in the peleton.
Those on dentist disc brake bikes.
Those on rim brake GT winning rim brake bikes.