Question Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Now that we know that Almeida is doing double giro vuelta I fear they will juice him up in a similar way to Pog :(
I actually thought about it yesterday. UAE doesn't juice everyone like Bahrain, the ones juiced for sure are Pog are Majka but there are others like Trentin, Gaviria, Hirschi who didn't do really well. Most of their wins are focused on Pog.

But since he's gonna be a leader and he's quite well-rounded Almeida would be probably be up there as well. He's also young so a lot of skeptics would say it's just "natural progression" even though this year at DQS he didn't actually progress that much.

Let's not forget that he is already juiced by Ibarguren at DQS and usually guys who leave DQS are doing much worse than before. Trentin and Gaviria are two good examples who are already at UAE but these guys are doing worse than at DQS. It's gonna be interesting to see how he compares to them.

I like Almeida and I'm gonna root for him to get a GT podium but if I see him dropping guys on climbs like Pog did in Tour it's gonna be hard to watch.
 
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I actually thought about it yesterday. UAE doesn't juice everyone like Bahrain, the ones juiced for sure are Pog are Majka but there are others like Trentin, Gaviria, Hirschi who didn't do really well. Most of their wins are focused on Pog.

But since he's gonna be a leader and he's quite well-rounded Almeida would be probably be up there as well. He's also young so a lot of skeptics would say it's just "natural progression" even though this year at DQS he didn't actually progress that much.

Let's not forget that he is already juiced by Ibarguren at DQS and usually guys who leave DQS are doing much worse than before. Trentin and Gaviria are two good examples who are already at UAE but these guys are doing worse than at DQS. It's gonna be interesting to see how he compares to them.

I like Almeida and I'm gonna root for him to get a GT podium but if I see him dropping guys on climbs like Pog did in Tour it's gonna be hard to watch.
Trentin's performance didn't really drop when he left Quickstep, he was still really good at Michelton Scott. He hasn't been the same since he lost that WC to Pedersen and has only 1 win in just over 2 years since then.
 
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I actually thought about it yesterday. UAE doesn't juice everyone like Bahrain, the ones juiced for sure are Pog are Majka but there are others like Trentin, Gaviria, Hirschi who didn't do really well. Most of their wins are focused on Pog.

But since he's gonna be a leader and he's quite well-rounded Almeida would be probably be up there as well. He's also young so a lot of skeptics would say it's just "natural progression" even though this year at DQS he didn't actually progress that much.

Let's not forget that he is already juiced by Ibarguren at DQS and usually guys who leave DQS are doing much worse than before. Trentin and Gaviria are two good examples who are already at UAE but these guys are doing worse than at DQS. It's gonna be interesting to see how he compares to them.

I like Almeida and I'm gonna root for him to get a GT podium but if I see him dropping guys on climbs like Pog did in Tour it's gonna be hard to watch.
Yes it's going to be a horrible watch if that happens. I think even without it he should definitely have a good chance on a podium next giro, since no one is going there. No Rog Pog, Bernal. Not even Remco. Who's he even gonna compete with? Adam Yates? Pidcock? Mas? Valverde?! Haig? Storer? Ben o Connor? I mean who's even his competition for that giro? And who will Jumbo Visma send since they won't send Jonas?

That vuelta is going to be horrible hasn't Rogla won TdF. Ugh I am really no Pog fan. :cry:

I don't like UAE :(
 
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Trentin's performance didn't really drop when he left Quickstep, he was still really good at Michelton Scott. He hasn't been the same since he lost that WC to Pedersen and has only 1 win in just over 2 years since then.
Trentin's best year was still 2017, his last year at DQS. He was still good at Michelton but in 2017 he was something else. And it's not just him, there is Gaviria, Viviani, Terpstra, Gilbert and many others who didn't perform nowhere near good as before. On the opposite side you have guys like Cav who suddenly gets 4 stages in TdF after being nowhere near the top before DQS, he was barely finding any contract.
Yes it's going to be a horrible watch if that happens. I think even without it he should definitely have a good chance on a podium next giro, since no one is going there. No Rog Pog, Bernal. Not even Remco. Who's he even gonna compete with? Adam Yates? Pidcock? Mas? Valverde?! Haig? Storer? Ben o Connor? I mean who's even his competition for that giro? And who will Jumbo Visma send since they won't send Jonas?

That vuelta is going to be horrible hasn't Rogla won TdF. Ugh I am really no Pog fan. :cry:

I don't like UAE :(
A podium seems natural and to be expected given the weak competition. But he shouldn't suddenly become the best climber and finish #1 with 5 minutes gap. Almeida always struggled against the best climbers. Another hint that Almeida is getting juiced is his contract, 5-year deal and the rumoured sum is something around 2-3 million a year. That's a huge deal for someone who didn't keep up with the best on the climbs and didn't got a GT podium. I think the silence has its price and no way you pay that kind of money if you expect Almeida's results from this year or worse.


Giro at this point attracts only 2nd tier GC options, I would say it's even behind Vuelta. Vuelta gets lots of the Giro GC guys but also the ones who have issues in TdF and want to perform better. All the Vuelta podium were guys who started in TdF.
From PCS it seems we're gonna have Carapaz and Nibali. Jumbo could send Dumoulin/Foss. There is also the Yates brothers, Vlasov/Buchmann/Kelderman, Haig/Landa/Mader, maybe Mas. Pretty lackluster indeed.

I don't like UAE and Bahrain, the way they seem to be so fresh at the end of big races, how easy it looks for Pog/Bahrain to take some wins and even go very long range makes me feel insulted as if I would actually be dumb enough to think it was legit. With the Ibarguren/Piepoli move and the traces of a substance for sclerosis in 3 of Bahrain's riders hair, it's pretty clear we're back into some nasty period.
 
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Funny how he no longer talks about his past involments in cycling: "His cycling experience includes work with 6 professional cycling teams, 1 Tour de France winner and 16 Grand Tour (Tour de France, Giro d’Italia, and Vuelta a España) podium finishers, including teams such as Vitalicio Seguros, ONCE, Saunier Duval, and Astana. He has worked with riders such as Joseba Beloki, Abraham Olano, Chris Horner, Fred Rodriguez, Jorge Jackshe, Leonardo Piepoli, David Millar, Andrey Kashechkin and Alexander Vinokourov."
 
And what does that have to do with anything? I mean, it's not that they came from another sport, they are involved in the sport for quite some time.
Just because they are in the sport it doesn't mean they are innocent. On the contrary being in the sport for so long and also during doping era is concerning. Being involved in any doping before is a big red flag. Why do you think Giannetti or Matxin are so mentioned in this thread? These guys shouldn't be anywhere near cycling yet they are because not enough evidence was found to ban them for good. Erzen was involved in Aderlass but then again, he denies everything just like he denies the hair samples just found at Bahrain but until enough evidence is found, he can do whatever he wants.

Having people involved in doping in your team is disastrous marketing. The news about Ibarguren moving to Movistar were received very negative. So why do it if these guys don't actually give you any benefit? If there is no benefit then the sponsor would want people in their organization who have no negative reputation.

It's not a coincidence that teams which overperformed in the last year are lead by people from the doping era. Last year Bahrain and Cav were in the same boat, underperforming all year. Cav leaves Bahrain but both of them are having a huge season in the next year while also having guys from the doping era in their staff. If Cav leaves DQS he wouldn't win anything anymore, this is why Lefevere can negotiate such a low salary even though Cav's name is huge.
 
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You wrote with Ibarguren/Piepoli move we're back into some nasty period.
I asked why? They were already in the sport, what's the difference if they are at DQS or Movistar?
Ibarguren being on Movistar rather than DQS doesn't change anything for the sport from a macro perspective. Nothing new is gonna be brought to the sport.

The move itself is concerning and the need of Movistar to get two guys with doping allegations. As I already said, there is no need to get this kind of guys given their bad reputation if they aren't gonna bring anything new to Movistar. Movistar won only one GT stage this year with a guy who just left, they are clearly not satisfied with that. If Movistar suddenly starts to win a lot more, people will start doubting their performances, just like it happens with Bahrain this season. DQS is less under the scrutiny because people got used to them winning so much. Nobody wants their team to have doping allegations, look at Bahrain this season and how Mohoric, Colbrelli, Erzen spoke against it.

In a perfect world where doping wouldn't exist, there is literally no reason to get Ibarguren/Piepoli just to screw your reputation. For me, the move makes sense only if Ibarguren brings something important to the table. Guys who were involved in doping several years ago having even more demand than before is definitely concerning and with all the other things regarding doping which happened this year I don't like the current period at all from a doping perspective. The move alone doesn't bring us to a nasty period, it's just another factor.
 
I think Almeida speaks about doping in this clip. I gotta need some Portuguese help with translation. They talk about Armstrong etc and I heard the word doping so couldn't put it in Almeida thread in the usual forum.
 
VDP didn’t last too long before back issues, we’ll see if that affects Pogi.
Exactly whom I was thinking of. I also think for example Remco is going to wreck himself early. All in all if they go out too hard too young they also will burn faster.

Maybe they don't care about a longer career. It's just that Pog doesn't seem reckless at all, he feels much much more deliberate.
 
He is riding against the highest paid riders with the best doctors and coaches, destroying them and making it look easy
This is actually what upsets me the most. Had he at least had a pain face I would have forgiven him so much easier. Had he at least showed that it took effort. But him hiding it behind a poker face makes me not enjoy it at all. I mean when Van Aert went all out last week at least his mouth was all wide open, you could tell he was fighting. With Pog nothing shows.
 
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