TdF - Bring Back Time Bonuses

[avanti]

Watching the Tour of Spain and Tour of Colorado this week one sees potential GC winners racing for the time bonuses. In the TdF these riders are happy to finish as long as their overall position is maintained.

 

[Fergoose]

Watching the Tour of Spain and Tour of Colorado this week one sees potential GC winners racing for the time bonuses. In the TdF these riders are happy to finish as long as their overall position is maintained.

I've always banged on about this and could not agree more. I was told they were removed to try and reduce the confusion about who is claiming the yellow jersey in the early stages of the tour (because it may not be instantly obvious at the finish). If that's the case it seems a very severe measure to overcome such a comparatively minor issue.

 

[jens_attacks]

i said this for years now,they're just stupid...
time bonuses=even more action and attacks
without time bonuses=guys winning from breakawys epic stages because nobody cares no more.

 

[Mr.DNA]

Seems like only a few years ago the Tour had bonuses but the Vuelta didn't. If you don't like the way things are now, wait a couple of years.

 

[Jamsque]

I absolutely agree, I think time bonuses are great. They encourage aggressive riding from the GC contenders and they help the leader's jersey move around more, which is good for sponsors and more fun for fans.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

I've always banged on about this and could not agree more. I was told they were removed to try and reduce the confusion about who is claiming the yellow jersey in the early stages of the tour (because it may not be instantly obvious at the finish). If that's the case it seems a very severe measure to overcome such a comparatively minor issue.

I believe the goal was to represent the Overall winner as the person to complete the course the fastest, in its purest sense.

Without sounding to flowery, each event brings something different to the table. It adds the variety to the sport that makes cycling unique. Let the Giro and Vuelta create punchouts at every possible finish, and the Tour set up rarer, but more remarkable victories. That might not be the best way to word it, but somewhere in there, there is a happy compromise that creates a good season of GTs

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Time bonuses were removed because idiots at the ASO thought it would force the riders to attack to gain time. Big surprise that in the age of Andy Schleck, who has so little fire in the belly (I mean anger in the stomach) that he can barely bring himself to sober up to do a race, it did not work. Now GC riders are content to roll across the line together, gifting each other stage wins. To make matters worse, the first week battle between the sprinters to grab the yellow jersey is no more, so the flat stages are even more boring.

 

[Carols]

I believe the goal was to represent the Overall winner as the person to complete the course the fastest, in its purest sense.

Time bonuses add excitement, but I prefer that the overall winner actually completes the course the fastest. I hate seeing races won on bonuses

 

[Magnus]

In this years giro Contador gifted stage wins whenever he could.

In this years tour favorites attacked all the time (barring Plateau de Beille).

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

In this years giro Contador gifted stage wins whenever he could.

In this years tour favorites attacked all the time (barring Plateau de Beille).

They did? I must have missed that.

 

[Thomsena]

They did? I must have missed that.

They really did, yes.

I've just seen one of the more enjoyable Tour De France races in a long time - why change something that's already working?..

 

[Mich78BEL]

What are the time bonusses like in the Vuelta?

I'm not against but it has to be limited.

 

[Ragerod]

In this years giro Contador gifted stage wins whenever he could.

In this years tour favorites attacked all the time (barring Plateau de Beille).

This year's Giro only had one realistic GC contender so it's not a fair example and without Contador there would have been no attacking whatsoever in the TDF.

 

[roundabout]

What are the time bonusses like in the Vuelta?

I'm not against but it has to be limited.

20-12-8 seconds for the first 3 on every stage except the time trials.

There are bonuses in the intermediate sprints as well but 95% of the time the break will get them.

 

[cineteq]

Now GC riders are content to roll across the line together, gifting each other stage wins. To make matters worse, the first week battle between the sprinters to grab the yellow jersey is no more, so the flat stages are even more boring.

Ironically, today in the Vuelta it could have been a great example on why time bonuses add to the strategy and the excitement, but it just didn't work out the way Liquigas thought it would, which left Nibali with 0 sec. bonus. In any case, that was exciting to watch!!

So yes, time bonuses need to go back to TdF!

 

[benpounder]

I think time bonuses are great.

Time bonuses on the inevitably boring initial stages of the TdF. Sure.

Time bonuses on mountain stages? Then why not time bonuses on ITT's as well?

 

[Jamsque]

If I had my druthers I'd like 3-2-1 seconds at all intermediate sprints and 10-6-4 at the finish line on every stage except time trials and mountain finishes.

 

[Mambo95]

Time bonuses on mountain stages? Then why not time bonuses on ITT's as well?

I agree.

I don't like them. People say that it makes for more attacking riding, but I'm not so sure it does. The more attacking climbers are often the better sprinters amongst the climbers as they have the acceleration. Why attack to maybe get 20-30 seconds when you can sit on wheels and sprint for a similar profit?

 

[icefire]

What are the time bonusses like in the Vuelta?

I'm not against but it has to be limited.

Race organisers can choose whether to have time bonuses or not, but they are not free to choose what the bonuses are. It's in the UCI rules for stage races.

 

[The Hitch]

I agree.

I don't like them. People say that it makes for more attacking riding, but I'm not so sure it does. The more attacking climbers are often the better sprinters amongst the climbers as they have the acceleration. Why attack to maybe get 20-30 seconds when you can sit on wheels and sprint for a similar profit?

Because then you get double?

 

[Mambo95]

Because then you get double?

Potentially. But the risk is greater. An attack takes energy, and there's no guarantee of success. Modern professional sport is about playing the percentages. If you're a fast finisher, then the percentages say to sit in and take the easy seconds.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I like time bonuses but 20 second bonuses at the finish are a bit excessive imo - seeing Valverde mop up a lot of cheap time made it look too easy. 10 is about right. You already have the reward of the stage win. I also think the bonuses should be at least as big (maybe bigger) in the intermediate sprints as the finish

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

I agree.

I don't like them. People say that it makes for more attacking riding, but I'm not so sure it does. The more attacking climbers are often the better sprinters amongst the climbers as they have the acceleration. Why attack to maybe get 20-30 seconds when you can sit on wheels and sprint for a similar profit?

Many mountain top finishes do not end on a steep climb. The road flattens out a bit before the line. The rider who can get a gap on an 8% grade is not necessarily the same rider who can outsprint the others on a 2% false flat.

We tried it without bonuses for the last several years. It did not work. Instead we got Contador and Andy practically hugging each other as they crossed the finish lines.

 

[DenisMenchov]

I am against time bonuses. Winner of the Tour de France is the one that completes the race with highest the average speed, not someone that was once 3rd in a stage and beat the highest average speed by 1 second.

 

[Mambo95]

We tried it without bonuses for the last several years. It did not work. Instead we got Contador and Andy practically hugging each other as they crossed the finish lines.

But would bonuses have made any difference? On the Tourmalet (2010), in the position of either Schleck or Contador how would bonuses have changed your approach?

Schleck tried to get a gap, but couldn't. Bonuses wouldn't have made any difference to his tactics. Alternatively, he could have been more negative and attacked in the last K from a small bunch.

With bonuses, tactically, the right move for Contador would have been to follow Schleck's wheel, gambling nothing, and fresher take him in the sprint.

So really there would have been no difference until the last 500m.

Like race radio bans, bonuses are something that people think improve things (through natural instinct), but actually probably don't. It's one of those counter-intuitive things. They just distort things.