Team Ineos Discussion thread

[RedheadDane]

Meanwhile, yeah... I'm still wondering what the hell is going on with Storm. He's still listed with the wrong team on the UCI website.
I suppose someone in management possibly forgetting to send in the papers to the UCI that they've signed him would be a pretty good indicator that something's not right...

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Meanwhile, yeah... I'm still wondering what the hell is going on with Storm. He's still listed with the wrong team on the UCI website.
I suppose someone in management possibly forgetting to send in the papers to the UCI that they've signed him would be a pretty good indicator that something's not right...

It's much more important he gets fit enough to ride again than which team he will be riding for when he is.

 

[RedheadDane]

It's much more important he gets fit enough to ride again than which team he will be riding for when he is.

Sure, but shouldn't he have been listed with Ineos right from the beginning of the year?
There is no denying that he signed with them.
Though, didn't you mention at some point that he was spotted at an Ineos camp... playing golf?

Also... what kind of health injuries?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Sure, but shouldn't he have been listed with Ineos right from the beginning of the year?
There is no denying that he signed with them.
Though, didn't you mention at some point that he was spotted at an Ineos camp... playing golf?

He was also training in Girona at whichever point he made this video

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C_FyFgJNaI4/

 

[Netserk]

Yes, but my post was about the general Ineos attitude towards development teams. It's a joke they never had a development team, and a bigger joke they never had a women's team.

I'll also add there is too much attention to teams not signing the best local talents. Movistar has trouble signing with Spanish riders, Jayco the same with Aussie riders and EF with American riders. You'll see less allegiances by riders to local teams, as they see the bigger picture of their future development is more important than to ride for the local team.

Why should they have a women's team? I don't see what good it does to them. Are sponsors of men's cycling supposed to subsidise women's cycling?

 

[AmRacer]

Why should they have a women's team? I don't see what good it does to them. Are sponsors of men's cycling supposed to subsidise women's cycling?

I guess those teams where they have both men's and women's team with same sponsor, the sponsor funds both teams.

 

[awavey]

I guess those teams where they have both men's and women's team with same sponsor, the sponsor funds both teams.

but not always as clear cut as it may seem, EF Education being a more recent example.

there was a time probably back in early Team Skys day I thought they should have had a women's team, though I always worried theyd come in with a pot of cash, there was some stat they published they spent more on fuel at one TdF for their buses/cars/generators etc than alot of women's teams annual budget at the time, and theyd destabilise the sport so much with their money it would take years for the women's pro tour to recover or for any other team to compete properly against them.

but for a long while now Ive felt we dont need them anymore, there are a good bunch of well funded teams now in the WWT, with seemingly stable sponsorships in place, what does an Ineos women's team bring to that side of the sport now ?

not alot imo, it would just be a tick box for them, which is the worst way ever to commit to doing something like that, because it largely means theres no honest commitment to it, and no overarching plan for success either, and frankly the way they seem to have run their mens team into the ground lately we can definitely do without their help.

Id far rather instead of running a women's team themselves, they simply provided some sponsorship to one of the British pro conti level women's teams and created a pathway through for junior level riders into the pro ranks, because thats where the biggest gap is now weve lost the Tour series and most of the road races and national cyclocross is probably the next under threat.

 

[awavey]

Yes, but my post was about the general Ineos attitude towards development teams. It's a joke they never had a development team

could you argue Team Wiggins was their development team ? as most of the good riders they had ended up at Sky, but they got burnt with the concept, so kind of dropped the idea as a bad one on the basis that you can let the other teams develop the talents and then just offer them better money when the time suits.

which is arguably a very football orientated way of doing things. the big clubs always poach the developed talent from the smaller clubs

 

[yaco]

could you argue Team Wiggins was their development team ? as most of the good riders they had ended up at Sky, but they got burnt with the concept, so kind of dropped the idea as a bad one on the basis that you can let the other teams develop the talents and then just offer them better money when the time suits.

which is arguably a very football orientated way of doing things. the big clubs always poach the developed talent from the smaller clubs

Team Wiggins was hardly their development team which added to Bradley Wiggins financial woes. It's strange that other teams can make Development teams work in both a sporting and financial sense, but, bad luck befalls Sky. At the end of the day, I've never seen evidence that Sky has shown much interest in development or women's teams.

 

[awavey]

Team Wiggins was hardly their development team which added to Bradley Wiggins financial woes. It's strange that other teams can make Development teams work in both a sporting and financial sense, but, bad luck befalls Sky. At the end of the day, I've never seen evidence that Sky has shown much interest in development or women's teams.

Just saying...

 

[yaco]

This was merely brand association as Ineos did nothing to help Team Wiggins when it was losing money. And nothing else was put in its place.

 

[theyoungest]

Why should they have a women's team? I don't see what good it does to them. Are sponsors of men's cycling supposed to subsidise women's cycling?

You're acting like men's cycling is somehow a profitable business for these sponsors It's always a form of "subsidizing". And a lot of the time, it's actually these sponsors who ask teams to start a women's team because it's good for their brand. That's how it works. If Ineos are serious about their greenwashing, having a women's team would certainly help them.

 

[RedheadDane]

Maybe the real question is:
"Would Ineos having a women's team be beneficial to women's cycling?"

 

[Samu Cuenca]

but not always as clear cut as it may seem, EF Education being a more recent example.

there was a time probably back in early Team Skys day I thought they should have had a women's team, though I always worried theyd come in with a pot of cash, there was some stat they published they spent more on fuel at one TdF for their buses/cars/generators etc than alot of women's teams annual budget at the time, and theyd destabilise the sport so much with their money it would take years for the women's pro tour to recover or for any other team to compete properly against them.

but for a long while now Ive felt we dont need them anymore, there are a good bunch of well funded teams now in the WWT, with seemingly stable sponsorships in place, what does an Ineos women's team bring to that side of the sport now ?

not alot imo, it would just be a tick box for them, which is the worst way ever to commit to doing something like that, because it largely means theres no honest commitment to it, and no overarching plan for success either, and frankly the way they seem to have run their mens team into the ground lately we can definitely do without their help.

Id far rather instead of running a women's team themselves, they simply provided some sponsorship to one of the British pro conti level women's teams and created a pathway through for junior level riders into the pro ranks, because thats where the biggest gap is now weve lost the Tour series and most of the road races and national cyclocross is probably the next under threat.

Yeah, they've definitely had multiple opportunities to launch a women's team,but have not found that to be worth their time and money. After saying goodbye to PFP, it wouldn't really feel right if they suddenly made a U-turn either. And at this point, we can't even be sure for how long the men's team is gonna survive for.

 

[Brullnux]

Why should they have a women's team? I don't see what good it does to them. Are sponsors of men's cycling supposed to subsidise women's cycling?

Are you aware of how cycling finances work? The sponsors aren't 'subsidising' anything as there's no directly traceable money being made in men's cycling anyway, it's just a different form of advertising/brand management. The actual question is not whether having a women's team helps Ineos Grenadiers, but whether it helps Ineos Group Ltd.

 

[Valv.Piti]

For all the talk of developement teams and women's team, they barely have a professional men's team at this point. Quite terrible results, Cummings debacle, public Dan Bigham debacle, Pidcock publicly shitting on Ineos and how they are not helping him and all the best talents choosing other teams, even when UAE have infinite god tier talents already. Something quite bad is happening. Thomas is over it now surely, Arensman is a solid top 10 rider and nothing more, and Rodriguez have been decent but not really that good and surely not great. They have nothing going for them honestly. Nobody cares that Ganna can win a big TT or two, or that Pidcock wins a title in mountainbike or cross, and those riders are still at least one level below the best in the classic races that suits them the most which are where the real bank is made.

 

[Brullnux]

For all the talk of developement teams and women's team, they barely have a professional men's team at this point. Quite terrible results, Cummings debacle, public Dan Bigham debacle, Pidcock publicly shitting on Ineos and how they are not helping him and all the best talents choosing other teams, even when UAE have infinite god tier talents already. Something quite bad is happening. Thomas is over it now surely, Arensman is a solid top 10 rider and nothing more, and Rodriguez have been decent but not really that good and surely not great. They have nothing going for them honestly. Nobody cares that Ganna can win a big TT or two, or that Pidcock wins a title in mountainbike or cross, and those riders are still at least one level below the best in the classic races that suits them the most which are where the real bank is made.

Yeah, agree, it's a mess. I think Pidcock actually had a decent spring and did win Amstel, and Ganna was sort of unlucky with his flat tire at MSR then skipped the rest. But, it just all seems a shambles. They have six WT wins all season, two of which being stages at Itzulia and Dauphine. So bad.

 

[SafeBet]

all the best talents choosing other teams

Some great talents chose Ineos though... but their development has been average at best.
Rodriguez, Sheffield, Tarling, August are all top prospects in their age class. And I'm not including Leo Hayter for obvious reasons.
It's quite telling that a team like Israel is developing riders much better than Ineos for instance.

 

[theyoungest]

Some great talents chose Ineos though... but their development has been average at best.
Rodriguez, Sheffield, Tarling, August are all top prospects in their age class. And I'm not including Leo Hayter for obvious reasons.
It's quite telling that a team like Israel is developing riders much better than Ineos for instance.

I think the Dutch term of "wet van de remmende voorsprong" is applicable here: the "law of the inhibiting lead". Once you're ahead of the pack, as a team or as a person, you're actually at a disadvantage because you become stale. It happens to every team in cycling. And Ineos have also missed the boat on signing one of the extraterrestrials: Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel, Van der Poel. Having one of them on their team would surely compensate for a lot.

 

[RedheadDane]

And Ineos have also missed the boat on signing one of the extraterrestrials: Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel, Van der Poel. Having one of them on their team would surely compensate for a lot.

If they want an extraterrestial, they should obviously sign this guy!

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/tim-marsman

 

[awavey]

I think the Dutch term of "wet van de remmende voorsprong" is applicable here: the "law of the inhibiting lead". Once you're ahead of the pack, as a team or as a person, you're actually at a disadvantage because you become stale. It happens to every team in cycling. And Ineos have also missed the boat on signing one of the extraterrestrials: Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel, Van der Poel. Having one of them on their team would surely compensate for a lot.

It's interesting reading Red Bulls approach to Bora though, clear goals guiding them forwards backed by strong leadership and plans to improve. They might not succeed but at least they know what they're attempting to do.

Does anyone even know who runs Ineos thesedays ? Let alone what their main goals or race aims are.

Like they've had 14 victories this season, we know that's clearly not good enough, but we don't know if they were targeting twice as many victories as that, a third more, just podiums in GTs, who knows?

 

[Tim Cahill]

U23 team in the pipeline for 2026 - Benson

https://twitter.com/x/status/1833823026099409081

 

[Netserk]

Are you aware of how cycling finances work?

No, I'm completely new to the sport and have no understanding of economics.

The sponsors aren't 'subsidising' anything as there's no directly traceable money being made in men's cycling anyway, it's just a different form of advertising/brand management. The actual question is not whether having a women's team helps Ineos Grenadiers, but whether it helps Ineos Group Ltd.

Are you able to read an exchange and infer what a reply is a rebuttal to?

Traceable money isn't the only game in town. Sponsors don't spend theirs on charity, and they aren't obliged to spend it where they don't expect a good enough return.

You're acting like men's cycling is somehow a profitable business for these sponsors

I'm acting like both parties expect to gain from a voluntary trade.

 

[Brullnux]

No, I'm completely new to the sport and have no understanding of economics.

Are you able to read an exchange and infer what a reply is a rebuttal to?

Traceable money isn't the only game in town. Sponsors don't spend theirs on charity, and they aren't obliged to spend it where they don't expect a good enough return.

I'm acting like both parties expect to gain from a voluntary trade.

I can, but your point still doesn't make any practical sense. INEOS funding a women's team wouldn't be out of charity, it would be brand management/reputational (which, ironically, often includes philantropy). There is no subsidising going on there, and the way cycling is set up means that it's incredibly difficult for there to be "subsidising" of the type you speak of.

The fact you "don't see what good it does to them" shows that this is, at the heart of it, a political disagreement. There is clearly commercial value in sponsoring a women's team, else you wouldn't have a professional women's peloton. Whether it would outweigh the costs for Ineos is unknowable from the outside.

 

[Netserk]

I can,

Then it's weird that you don't respond to it.

This is what I replied to:

My biggest issue is they have done nothing to support the wider cycling community outside of their pro team. Where is their women's team? Where is their under 23 team? Trinity is struggling for budget, but, there is no way Ineos will help.

Yes, but my post was about the general Ineos attitude towards development teams. It's a joke they never had a development team, and a bigger joke they never had a women's team.

---

INEOS funding a women's team wouldn't be out of charity,

It should be, according to @yaco. If it's purely a business matter for Ineos, then they are under no obligation to fund other teams.