Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re: Re:

Bernie's eyesore said:
I'm sure Thomas will be over the moon to discover he is a Tour winner. Based on how he climbed the other day he wouldn't make the top ten in a Tour de France or even come close.
Yeah, I think Thomas' best case scenario is a career trajectory like another track convert Christian Vande Velde with an occasional top 10 in a GT without really threatening for overall victory.
 
Re: Re:

djpbaltimore said:
Bernie's eyesore said:
I'm sure Thomas will be over the moon to discover he is a Tour winner. Based on how he climbed the other day he wouldn't make the top ten in a Tour de France or even come close.
Yeah, I think Thomas' best case scenario is a career trajectory like another track convert Christian Vande Velde with an occasional top 10 in a GT without really threatening for overall victory.
What did you have as froomes best case scenario pre august 2011 or wiggos pre July 2009?
 
Sep 14, 2011
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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
djpbaltimore said:
Bernie's eyesore said:
I'm sure Thomas will be over the moon to discover he is a Tour winner. Based on how he climbed the other day he wouldn't make the top ten in a Tour de France or even come close.
Yeah, I think Thomas' best case scenario is a career trajectory like another track convert Christian Vande Velde with an occasional top 10 in a GT without really threatening for overall victory.
What did you have as froomes best case scenario pre august 2011 or wiggos pre July 2009?
If Thomas undergoes a transformation like those two then he will be better than Eddie Merckx.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
What did you have as froomes best case scenario pre august 2011 or wiggos pre July 2009?
I had barely heard of Froome before he was ripping up the peloton for Wiggins in that Vuelta TBH. I seem to recall Phil mentioned him a few times in 2008 when he rode for Barloworld but I was under the impression that Augustyn was the better GT prospect. As for Wiggins, I thought he was going to be one of the prologue/ TT specialists like Millar. I felt the claim that SKY had a future TDF champion in their squad was wishful thinking, but it turns out that they had at least 2. When CVV was a domestique for Heras at Liberty, I would not of guessed that he could be a GC contender either. Part of that is what makes the sport interesting. If we knew how much each rider doped, it probably not be as much fun.
 
Re:

Catwhoorg said:
2 ?

At least four at current rates of progression (hype).
Adding Kennaugh (widely thought of as the one being referred to) and now G
Based on what exactly was kennaugh a potential gt contender. 3rd from his age group at the giro bio isn't exactly worldbeating even before one considers that most giro bio winners let alone fringe one time podium placers never become gt contenders. He had potential in a way but no more than 50 other riders in the peloton.
 
Re:

djpbaltimore said:
I did say at least 2!

I would've bought Kennaugh stock in 2013, but now... not so much. Lightning may have struck twice, but if SKY was magically able to transform every rider, they would have more GT victories than two IMO.
To be able to do something is not the same as to do it. They don't need to transform anyone else as they already have their guy.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Catwhoorg said:
2 ?

At least four at current rates of progression (hype).
Adding Kennaugh (widely thought of as the one being referred to) and now G
Based on what exactly was kennaugh a potential gt contender. 3rd from his age group at the giro bio isn't exactly worldbeating even before one considers that most giro bio winners let alone fringe one time podium placers never become gt contenders. He had potential in a way but no more than 50 other riders in the peloton.

When Sky was Launched with the Winning the tour in 5 years, two names were suggested by people as candidates.
Kennaugh and Swift.

Swift may climb well for a sprinter but he in not GT podium material, nor ever likely to be (now classics would be another thing). Kennaugh may still yet be. (but needs to start showing some real results in week long races sooner rather than later)
 
As for G, yes this climb was certainly something beyond what he has shown before.

But he has been laying the groundwork as part of the Skytrain for a while

XX watts for a certain time. Pushing that time out.

He certainly has more "race nous" than Wiggo and Froome combined.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
To be able to do something is not the same as to do it. They don't need to transform anyone else as they already have their guy.
I don't necessarily understand what you are implying with that. Are you suggesting that they could transform G or Kennaugh into a GT winner if Froome was not around? I suppose that is possible, but I wouldn't bet on it. Even Bruyneel couldn't turn Hincapie or Popovych into GT contenders.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

Catwhoorg said:
The Hitch said:
Catwhoorg said:
2 ?

At least four at current rates of progression (hype).
Adding Kennaugh (widely thought of as the one being referred to) and now G
Based on what exactly was kennaugh a potential gt contender. 3rd from his age group at the giro bio isn't exactly worldbeating even before one considers that most giro bio winners let alone fringe one time podium placers never become gt contenders. He had potential in a way but no more than 50 other riders in the peloton.

When Sky was Launched with the Winning the tour in 5 years, two names were suggested by people as candidates.
Kennaugh and Swift.

Swift may climb well for a sprinter but he in not GT podium material, nor ever likely to be (now classics would be another thing). Kennaugh may still yet be. (but needs to start showing some real results in week long races sooner rather than later)
Wiggins won his only GT at age 32. Kennaugh has 6 years on that comparison. Horner won his first GT at 42......
 
Re:

Catwhoorg said:
As for G, yes this climb was certainly something beyond what he has shown before.

But he has been laying the groundwork as part of the Skytrain for a while

XX watts for a certain time. Pushing that time out.

He certainly has more "race nous" than Wiggo and Froome combined.
Issue is that Rettenbachferner isn't really a wattage climb, it's a survival climb, which makes Thomas' success on it all the more confusing. Puncheurs (Thomas isn't really one of those, but with rides like Malhão and La Redoute has shown some good results on that type of climb in the past) can sometimes limit losses on that type of climb as they can power up where many tempo climbers will be hurt by the gradient, but still would typically expect to lose much more to the likes of Thibaut Pinot than that on it.

djpbaltimore said:
I don't necessarily understand what you are implying with that. Are you suggesting that they could transform G or Kennaugh into a GT winner if Froome was not around? I suppose that is possible, but I wouldn't bet on it. Even Bruyneel couldn't turn Hincapie or Popovych into GT contenders.
Popo was already a GT contender before Bruyneel. He podiumed the Giro back with Landbouwkrediet in 2003. Sure, the Giro fields were suffering at that point but it's still a GT podium. The issue with Popo was that he was a supercharger early on so the room for improvement, even with the Hog at the wheel, wasn't enough.
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
Re: Re:

Singer01 said:
Moose McKnuckles said:
Singer01 said:
red_flanders said:
Hilarious. I read this last page and it's almost entirely Sky fans complaining about people saying why the thread is so long. Which pretty much explains why the thread is so long.
you and i are reading a very different thread. as always its 50% racism from sky haters, and 50% jingoism from sky supporters.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
or alternately you can't recognise racism when you see it.
Nope, it doesn't mean what you think it means... Look it up FFS!
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Popo was already a GT contender before Bruyneel. He podiumed the Giro back with Landbouwkrediet in 2003. Sure, the Giro fields were suffering at that point but it's still a GT podium. The issue with Popo was that he was a supercharger early on so the room for improvement, even with the Hog at the wheel, wasn't enough.
Good point. The comparison to Thomas is not the best one to make.
 

Singer01

BANNED
Nov 18, 2013
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Re: Re:

irondan said:
Singer01 said:
Moose McKnuckles said:
Singer01 said:
red_flanders said:
Hilarious. I read this last page and it's almost entirely Sky fans complaining about people saying why the thread is so long. Which pretty much explains why the thread is so long.
you and i are reading a very different thread. as always its 50% racism from sky haters, and 50% jingoism from sky supporters.
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.
or alternately you can't recognise racism when you see it.
Nope, it doesn't mean what you think it means... Look it up FFS!
perhaps the definition of racism is different in other countries. or perhaps people perceive racism differently, its a big world out there, remember that when you gob off at people who invented the language you speak.
perhaps you missed my previous post where i said i was being facetious, maybe you don't know what that means. but you probably need to take a ritalin and CTFD.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Issue is that Rettenbachferner isn't really a wattage climb, it's a survival climb
? Sustainable w/kg plus all the annoying nuisance parameters like wind, rolling resistance etc predict the time up there accurately just like for any other climb.
 
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