Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re:

Benotti69 said:
Why does Wiggins not have a copy of his own medical records?

Anyone know if riders (athletes) get copies of their records for when they move teams?

I know in Italy members of the public are given records of their medical history as they attend medical appointments.

I would as a professional athlete, especially as a doper, want copies of my medical records.

Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.
 
Re: Sky

Damian Collins, chairman of the committee, told AFP it was a damning indictment of British Cycling that Freeman had not filed the medical records correctly. “It is a big issue that in the three years between the race and his going on holiday Dr Freeman had not uploaded the records,” said Collins referring to a Dropbox other doctors could access. “This undermines the message that British Cycling and Team Sky like to put out that they are the cleanest and most ethical in the sport.

“This is a really big problem with regard to the running of the whole team and that a doctor does not file what medicines he is giving to each rider properly. It is a pretty damning indictment and we will be holding the governing body to account,”
added the 43-year-old Conservative lawmaker.

http://www.velonews.com/2017/03/news/stolen-team-sky-medical-records-leave-uk-officials-skeptical_431565#cFDm7g1isTF5pivX.99
 
Re: Re:

DingoGuesdon said:
Random Direction said:
We are expected to believe that (a) Sky / BC did not have any copies of Dr. Freeman's records; (b) Dr. Freeman never, not even once, synced or backed up his core medical records between June 2011 and 2014; (c) Same laptop was used in 2011 as in 2014. What a joke.
You are expected to believe that the setup which allowed utter anihilation of opponents on the road and on track thanks to an accumulation of marginal gains was not rigorous enough to keep files on their athletes' health.
yup....never tested froome or even knew his weight.... :)
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

bigcog said:
Benotti69 said:
Why does Wiggins not have a copy of his own medical records?

Anyone know if riders (athletes) get copies of their records for when they move teams?

I know in Italy members of the public are given records of their medical history as they attend medical appointments.

I would as a professional athlete, especially as a doper, want copies of my medical records.

Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.
Didn't BC rider Callum Skinner release medical documents showing asthma as a child?
 
Sep 10, 2016
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Re: Sky

keeponrollin said:
MmeDesgrange said:
keeponrollin said:
The Guys on Off the Ball said earlier that it had come out that Sky had previously bought Flumicil from regular pharmacies in Europe, & thereby shot holes in their own BS story that they needed the contents of the jiffybag, because they couldn't trust Flumicil bought anywhere but in the UK.

Has anyone heard this confirmed before ?
There was no record of flumicil in the Manchester stockpile
So a British Cycling Employee (physiotherapist, Phil Burt) put something in a Jiffy-Bag, at the request of another British Cycling Employee (Dr. Richard Freeman), presumably from store of Pharmaceuticals in British Cycling HQ in Manchester, paid for by the British Tax payer, & then they got another BC employee, who although he was nominally the Womens coach, told a Parliamentary committee, he was a general dogsbody, who did whatever he was told, to take the package to France, breaking laws along the way.

At which point the BC employed Doctor, administered the contents of the mysterious package to Bradley Wiggins, (A Sky Employee).

and 4+ years later, they're all still working, & two of the participants have picked up peerages....

the abuse of taxpayers money, alone, regardless of what was in the fucking package should have been enough to get each & every one of them fired :mad:
The large stocks of Kenalog, plus Leinders expertise with it as part of the doping regime at Rabobank, suggest that the doping goes wider than 'one bad apple'. And the fact it was held at the Manchester velodrome, HQ of BC, says it may well go beyond Sky. Sapstead was clear in her testimony that the tie up between Sky & BC was problematic, at best.

Which leaves our friend Brian Cookson in the hot seat. Still, that tax payers money that got him elected as the head of the UCI has been money well spent over the last few years, because there are those who still believe that the success of Sky/BC is more important than any wrongdoing - it's the Armstrong cancer shield all over again.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

thehog said:
Benotti69 said:
Fully expect Freeman to claim he forgets what was in Jiffy bag and lost laptop to check his records.

Hope Freeman gets struck off, but i doubt it. Dr Bonar didn't.

But the investigation has been very weak, if at all. MPs have been the ones making ground. As usual outside forces are the ones doing the work of Anit-doping Authorities.

Sport is beyond fixing.
UKAD had little to no interest in investigating, it's only once it got to the CMS level they were forced to pretend they were doing something. You can clearly see Brailsford & co. have been running rings around UKAD for years.
Totally.

It was fascinating to see how uncomfortable Sapstead seemed to be whilst having to suggest wrongdoing by Team Sky.
That UKAD still haven't checked whether Freeman went to the police when his laptop was stolen is hilarious.
Sapstead had to invoke Interpol to make it seem like they're actually doing something.

Everything in her body language suggested a deeply rooted "We shall not step on any toes" attitude at UKAD.

UKAD need a pitbull, not a lapdog, running things.
 
Jul 21, 2015
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Re: Re:

bigcog said:
Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.
In the UK you can have copies of your own records under data protection law if the provider has no other provision to give them, and are able to sign away access to your records others if you choose to do so and are mentally capable.

So doctor patient confidentiality shouldn't be an issue if the patient consents.
 
"UKAD need a pitbull, not a lapdog, running things." agree 100%

WTF was Cope's train trips from Eastbourne to Manchester and Gatwick and all points west, when he was given a car to use? Did he claim petrol expenses too? Maybe the authorities should check his deductions ...

Laptop got stolen .... yeah :rolleyes: What next, an identical evil twin?
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
bigcog said:
Benotti69 said:
Why does Wiggins not have a copy of his own medical records?

Anyone know if riders (athletes) get copies of their records for when they move teams?

I know in Italy members of the public are given records of their medical history as they attend medical appointments.

I would as a professional athlete, especially as a doper, want copies of my medical records.

Really ? Blimey I wish they did that in the UK, but NHS is probably scared of getting sued ... In the UK you can request to view them I think but can't have a copy as far as I know although I could be wrong on that especially for elite sports people how are seeing 'private' doctors.
Didn't BC rider Callum Skinner release medical documents showing asthma as a child?
He did and you are entitled to view and have a copy of your medical records or parts of them if you want in the UK. Most people don't bother though.
 
Jul 21, 2015
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Re:

Random Direction said:
Dauphine is June, 2011. Medical records were entered into a laptop. Data were not uploaded to Dropbox, against Sky policy. Said laptop was stolen in 2014.

We are expected to believe that (a) Sky / BC did not have any copies of Dr. Freeman's records; (b) Dr. Freeman never, not even once, synced or backed up his core medical records between June 2011 and 2014; (c) Same laptop was used in 2011 as in 2014. What a joke.

Freeman is being setting up as the (free) fall guy. Sky/BC is wholly complicit in this ******.
And if it was 3+ years old, that Greek laptop thieves aren't discerning enough to skip 3+ year old models with UK keyboards.

Plenty of things with a possible paper trail or witnesses. Was it a good laptop? When was the laptop bought? Was it a BC or Sky or personal laptop? Do witnesses confirm he was using the same laptop all that time and never made backups, used a personal dropbox or emailled the documents to anyone? Were the contents encrypted? Did the other doctors encrypt their laptops? Was the laptop managed by Sky/BC IT? Were the affected riders informed their records were lost? (When? How?) Was there an insurance claim? What else was taken? Was the ICO notified of the data breach/loss? Was Freeman even authorised to take the laptop abroad on a personal trip?
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
Where are all the Sky defenders?

It's a serious question, I haven't seen much of them on this thread in the past six months or so.

I'm just curious if they left the forum because of the fallout of the TUE saga or other reasons....
 
Re: Re:

Dan2016 said:
I'm actually a bit surprised, given the amount of preparation time they've all had, that they haven't all had a more consistent unified story. They sound like they just make the stories up with very little thought. Not a chess players amongst them I imagine.
This is the same team that wasn't prepared for people looking at their 2012 Tour performance, after annihilating everybody all season and justifying it by saying "others are peaking for the Tour", and doubting it. This is the same team that flat out said they would use US Postal as an example to aspire to, and wasn't prepared for people to take that to doping innuendo. This is the same team that toasted all its puncheurs trying to lead out a sprint because they failed to spot a 1km @ 9% climb in the roadbook that is supposedly their Bible. This is the same team that honestly thought they could spin a story so blatantly false as Cope meeting Pooley clandestinely in a completely different country from where Emma was racing in a major race, that could be disproven in under 30 seconds. They've got a track record of being taken by surprise by things they really shouldn't be caught on the hop by.
 
Re:

Irondan said:
Where are all the Sky defenders?

It's a serious question, I haven't seen much of them on this thread in the past six months or so.

I'm just curious if they left the forum because of the fallout of the TUE saga or other reasons....
well, it´s not easy. actually I hope no official sanction will be issued nor cash shortage from Sky. but it´s just a wish. I know they are in biiiig shyt, I am holding steady on the boards while the ship sinks, but I wish it all stays in the Clinic and on Twitter, where we know what the awful truth is. I just dont want to hear the people officially say "we told you" when-if wins and knighthoods will be stripped and Ukad, Wada and the committee will issue official news and confirmations.
it´s like Cancellara motor or Miguel EPO. we know it happened but not officially, no stripped wins etc

it´s childish I know, it´s a game, I am Italian, not even driven by national bias, neither having the Sky-love shoved down my throat every day like in UK (that´s what some UK twitter friends explained me)

one day I will understand what it took for Digger and co, the drive, the time, the energy it took for all these years to keep digging. one day I´ll open my eyes maybe.
but the level of vitriol from Digger, Hog and a few others I will never understand though, maybe that´s why I cheer Sky, for people blaming Froome on how he holds a coffee cup, for blaming him for training in S.A. where he grew up and raced and trained (while not caring about Dumoulin there) for moking Owain Doull when he was sick in January, for asking for Henao´s hospital pick saying he faked his crash, and many many other anecdotes.

what I hope is this 2011 mess won´t affect the 2017-18 season. for spite, because I want Sky to keep ruining races as the anti-sky and alberto-fans say
what would we want? katusha-astana-movi-bahrain to rule the races?
those clean teams? after the most evil and dangerous thing ever happened to cycling disappeared? naaaaaa!
I want Sky to keep racing, everyone has his own favourite doper and doped team!
 
Re: Re:

pastronef said:
Irondan said:
Where are all the Sky defenders?

It's a serious question, I haven't seen much of them on this thread in the past six months or so.

I'm just curious if they left the forum because of the fallout of the TUE saga or other reasons....
well, it´s not easy. actually I hope no official sanction will be issued nor cash shortage from Sky. but it´s just a wish. I know they are in biiiig shyt, I am holding steady on the boards while the ship sinks, but I wish it all stays in the Clinic and on Twitter, where we know what the awful truth is. I just dont want to hear the people officially say "we told you" when-if wins and knighthoods will be stripped and Ukad, Wada and the committee will issue official news and confirmations.
it´s like Cancellara motor or Miguel EPO. we know it happened but not officially, no stripped wins etc

it´s childish I know, it´s a game, I am Italian, not even driven by national bias, neither having the Sky-love shoved down my throat every day like in UK (that´s what some UK twitter friends explained me)

one day I will understand what it took for Digger and co, the drive, the time, the energy it took for all these years to keep digging. one day I´ll open my eyes maybe.
but the level of vitriol from Digger, Hog and a few others I will never understand though, maybe that´s why I cheer Sky, for people blaming Froome on how he holds a coffee cup, for blaming him for training in S.A. where he grew up and raced and trained (while not caring about Dumoulin there) for moking Owain Doull when he was sick in January, for asking for Henao´s hospital pick saying he faked his crash, and many many other anecdotes.

what I hope is this 2011 mess won´t affect the 2017-18 season. for spite, because I want Sky to keep ruining races as the anti-sky and alberto-fans say
what would we want? katusha-astana-movi-bahrain to rule the races?
those clean teams? after the most evil and dangerous thing ever happened to cycling disappeared? naaaaaa!
I want Sky to keep racing, everyone has his own favourite doper and doped team!
the problem with all of this, is that out there, there are clean riders, who don't want to dope, & when they look at the Pro ranks, & what it takes to win, they just shrug their shoulders, & say; 'fuck it, I don't want to dope, why would I even try & make it as a Pro ?'

and cycling dies a little more ...
 
Re: Re:

keeponrollin said:
pastronef said:
Irondan said:
Where are all the Sky defenders?

It's a serious question, I haven't seen much of them on this thread in the past six months or so.

I'm just curious if they left the forum because of the fallout of the TUE saga or other reasons....
well, it´s not easy. actually I hope no official sanction will be issued nor cash shortage from Sky. but it´s just a wish. I know they are in biiiig shyt, I am holding steady on the boards while the ship sinks, but I wish it all stays in the Clinic and on Twitter, where we know what the awful truth is. I just dont want to hear the people officially say "we told you" when-if wins and knighthoods will be stripped and Ukad, Wada and the committee will issue official news and confirmations.
it´s like Cancellara motor or Miguel EPO. we know it happened but not officially, no stripped wins etc

it´s childish I know, it´s a game, I am Italian, not even driven by national bias, neither having the Sky-love shoved down my throat every day like in UK (that´s what some UK twitter friends explained me)

one day I will understand what it took for Digger and co, the drive, the time, the energy it took for all these years to keep digging. one day I´ll open my eyes maybe.
but the level of vitriol from Digger, Hog and a few others I will never understand though, maybe that´s why I cheer Sky, for people blaming Froome on how he holds a coffee cup, for blaming him for training in S.A. where he grew up and raced and trained (while not caring about Dumoulin there) for moking Owain Doull when he was sick in January, for asking for Henao´s hospital pick saying he faked his crash, and many many other anecdotes.

what I hope is this 2011 mess won´t affect the 2017-18 season. for spite, because I want Sky to keep ruining races as the anti-sky and alberto-fans say
what would we want? katusha-astana-movi-bahrain to rule the races?
those clean teams? after the most evil and dangerous thing ever happened to cycling disappeared? naaaaaa!
I want Sky to keep racing, everyone has his own favourite doper and doped team!
the problem with all of this, is that out there, there are clean riders, who don't want to dope, & when they look at the Pro ranks, & what it takes to win, they just shrug their shoulders, & say; 'fuck it, I don't want to dope, why would I even try & make it as a Pro ?'

and cycling dies a little more ...
I understand. so ERASE THEM ALL. katusha astana movi sky bahrain etc. tabula rasa! away with them all.
I´m in, when does it begin?
 
Re:

Irondan said:
Where are all the Sky defenders?

It's a serious question, I haven't seen much of them on this thread in the past six months or so.

I'm just curious if they left the forum because of the fallout of the TUE saga or other reasons....
Same with Armstrong, they just disappeared. Even Bikeradar is having a hard time digesting the sludge they were feed today.

Just goes to show, even after Armstrong, absolutely nothing changes. A great man once said in 2012, "We all know how this ends, just enjoy it in the moment". Kudos to you Mr. Landis.
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
I genuinely feel bad for the fans of Team Sky, it's too bad they all have to go through this along with the characters involved.

The good thing is that they have some great riders that are not a part of this and the season is heating up!

Sky fans have a lot to cheer for, especially when the Tour rolls around. :)
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
thehog said:
Benotti69 said:
Fully expect Freeman to claim he forgets what was in Jiffy bag and lost laptop to check his records.

Hope Freeman gets struck off, but i doubt it. Dr Bonar didn't.

But the investigation has been very weak, if at all. MPs have been the ones making ground. As usual outside forces are the ones doing the work of Anit-doping Authorities.

Sport is beyond fixing.
UKAD had little to no interest in investigating, it's only once it got to the CMS level they were forced to pretend they were doing something. You can clearly see Brailsford & co. have been running rings around UKAD for years.
Totally.

It was fascinating to see how uncomfortable Sapstead seemed to be whilst having to suggest wrongdoing by Team Sky.
That UKAD still haven't checked whether Freeman went to the police when his laptop was stolen is hilarious.
Sapstead had to invoke Interpol to make it seem like they're actually doing something.

Everything in her body language suggested a deeply rooted "We shall not step on any toes" attitude at UKAD.

UKAD need a pitbull, not a lapdog, running things.
She was. She finds a treasure trove of cortisone but decides against pursuing it because she didn't want to change the scope of the investigation. You could tell for years, she and Brailsford are chums. He only reason this got to where it did, was the non-Investgation of Bonor and handing over information to the GMC and the CMS Committee.
 
Re:

Irondan said:
I genuinely feel bad for the fans of Team Sky, it's too bad they all have to go through this along with the characters involved.

The good thing is that they have some great riders that are not a part of this and the season is heating up!

Sky fans have a lot to cheer for, especially when the Tour rolls around. :)

I'm just sad there won't be another Walsh book on Sky...evey bit of fun as the Armstrong days.
 
What are the chances that the whole operation will come crumbling down because of this? I haven't been able to follow the case as much as I'd liked and am a bit fuzzy on the details and the severity of it all.

Nothing would please me more than a US Postal-level meltdown. Is it possible?
 
Re:

Saint Unix said:
What are the chances that the whole operation will come crumbling down because of this? I haven't been able to follow the case as much as I'd liked and am a bit fuzzy on the details and the severity of it all.

Nothing would please me more than a US Postal-level meltdown. Is it possible?
Reading Sky's statement, it's still game on! They have an entire warehouse of kenalog to get through :cool:
 
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