Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[iceblink]

No doubt Sky/Ineos had the best "program" from 2012 to 2019 ... winning the TDF 7 of the 8 years (and most likely would have won it 8 of 8 if Froome hadn't crashed out in 2014.)

What is even more impressive isn't the win total over those 8 years ... it is the fact that they won it with 4 different riders. Who does that? One guy goes down or retires? Just plug another in and win the TDF again. Exceptional!

Same thing happens in any sport where you have the biggest budget, the winners are usually the best funded teams.

I mean Pogacar, Roglic, Vingegaard etc wouldn't have to take the juice if they were in Sky/Ineos with the best domestiques ever assembled in history.

Because Pogacar, Roglic, Vingegaard etc aren't in Sky/Ineos they have to cheat to get the wins instead.

 

[FroomeWagon]

Same thing happens in any sport where you have the biggest budget, the winners are usually the best funded teams.

I mean Pogacar, Roglic, Vingegaard etc wouldn't have to take the juice if they were in Sky/Ineos with the best domestiques ever assembled in history.

Because Pogacar, Roglic, Vingegaard etc aren't in Sky/Ineos they have to cheat to get the wins instead.

You want to know what the teams with the biggest budgets have? They have the best drugs. They also seem to get the most favorable treatment from the UCI when a problem does occur ( jiffy bags, failed salbutamol tests , 100's of vials of testosterone that no one can determine who they were for, etc ).

I'm not arguing that Jumbo isn't doing drugs, of course they are, as is everyone in the peloton that cares about winning, its just the ridiculousness of 4 different TDF winners in 8 years is over the top. Especially when those tour winners include Wiggo, Froome and Thomas. At least Bernal was thought to have GC talent when he arrived at Sky. The others, not so much. If Roglic, van Aert, and Sepp Kuss each win the TDF over the next 7 years, I will agree with you that Jumbo is as ridiculous as Sky/Ineos.

 

[iceblink]

You want to know what the teams with the biggest budgets have? They have the best drugs. They also seem to get the most favorable treatment from the UCI when a problem does occur ( jiffy bags, failed salbutamol tests , 100's of vials of testosterone that no one can determine who they were for, etc ).

I'm not arguing that Jumbo isn't doing drugs, of course they are, as is everyone in the peloton that cares about winning, its just the ridiculousness of 4 different TDF winners in 8 years is over the top. Especially when those tour winners include Wiggo, Froome and Thomas. At least Bernal was thought to have GC talent when he arrived at Sky. The others, not so much. If Roglic, van Aert, and Sepp Kuss each win the TDF over the next 7 years, I will agree with you that Jumbo is as ridiculous as Sky/Ineos.

No Sky/Ineos rider ever pulled off a 1 minute time trial win over the rest of the world class field like Roglic, Pocagar and Dumoulin did.

Froome was a very good time-trialler and climber, got him 4 bronzes at Olympics and Worlds, but when he had the whole team to help he could get a few extra seconds on his rivals.

Mutants like the Jumbo and UAE riders mentioned can just do a whole minute better than the entire world class field.

Yeah, after several millions pounds government funded investigation into Sky/Ineos they found a couple of dodgy TUEs. (Like Serena Williams and many others)

Imagine if any other nations governments investigated likes of Jumbo, UAE and Bahrain with such clout?

 

[macbindle]

That might explain finding bigger talents more often. It wouldn't explain riders going from track type riders to GT mountain goats in the middle of their career. If anything track should select mostly for track, so finding TTers and sprinters.

And you are saying this on the basis of what expertise?

 

[macbindle]

You crying about it hasn't turn it into something less true.

"less true" 😆

It's only true in this little echo chamber, Liz

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Because they developed and invested a lot of money into a program with the goal of producing some great riders that could win medals in the 2012 Olympics? Mainly the track team.

It grew the interest of the sport in Britain and spawned a younger generation to pick up cycling. They are reaping all the benefits now with many new young riders coming through each season in the past few years. All types of different riders.

While some of the old guard is still here performing in the biggest races, which is quite remarkable.

That younger generation who were inspired (and from that I would say people from the Yates brothers onward) aren't getting the negative attention here though. People aren't slating Onley, Poole, Pidcock, Hayter et al, but a few of the forum old guard who've been defending Thomas and Froome still want to pretend it's a nationality thing. It's the old guard - and specifically the Brailsford inner circle group regardless of their nationality (the likes of Porte also attracted attention in their Sky days), the most prominent of which are of course Britons - that attract the attention.

 

[Reemster]

No Sky/Ineos rider ever pulled off a 1 minute time trial win over the rest of the world class field like Roglic, Pocagar and Dumoulin did.

Froome was a very good time-trialler and climber, got him 4 bronzes at Olympics and Worlds, but when he had the whole team to help he could get a few extra seconds on his rivals.

Mutants like the Jumbo and UAE riders mentioned can just do a whole minute better than the entire world class field.

Yeah, after several millions pounds government funded investigation into Sky/Ineos they found a couple of dodgy TUEs. (Like Serena Williams and many others)

Imagine if any other nations governments investigated likes of Jumbo, UAE and Bahrain with such clout?

1	WIGGINS Bradley	Sky Procycling	20	100		1:04:13	49.987
2	FROOME Chris	Sky Procycling	10	70		1:16	49.020
3	SÁNCHEZ Luis León	Rabobank Cycling Team	6	50		1:50	48.600
4	VELITS Peter	Omega Pharma - Quick-Step	4	40		2:02	48.453
5	PORTE Richie	Sky Procycling	2	32		2:25	48.174

 

[Aimar16]

1	WIGGINS Bradley	Sky Procycling	20	100		1:04:13	49.987
2	FROOME Chris	Sky Procycling	10	70		1:16	49.020
3	SÁNCHEZ Luis León	Rabobank Cycling Team	6	50		1:50	48.600
4	VELITS Peter	Omega Pharma - Quick-Step	4	40		2:02	48.453
5	PORTE Richie	Sky Procycling	2	32		2:25	48.174

He also beat peak Cancellara by almost a minute - https://www.procyclingstats.com/race/tour-de-france/2012/stage-9

 

[zlev11]

No Sky/Ineos rider ever pulled off a 1 minute time trial win over the rest of the world class field like Roglic, Pocagar and Dumoulin did.

CQ Ranking - Tour de France, Stage 19 : Bonneval - Chartres I.T.T.

CQ Ranking is the world's leading cycling ranking and extensive results database. Also known as Cycling Quotient.

cqranking.com

Wiggins and Froome 1-2 with almost 2 minutes on the rest of the field. Two guys who were packfill for years. I guess this was before your time though.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Yeah, after several millions pounds government funded investigation into Sky/Ineos they found a couple of dodgy TUEs. (Like Serena Williams and many others)

Imagine if any other nations governments investigated likes of Jumbo, UAE and Bahrain with such clout?

I'm pretty sure that the findings would be similar if the Dutch "investigated" Jumbo. And do you think that United Arab Emirates would blow the whistle on Pogacar? Same whitewash as Sky no matter how much clout.

 

[iceblink]

1	WIGGINS Bradley	Sky Procycling	20	100		1:04:13	49.987
2	FROOME Chris	Sky Procycling	10	70		1:16	49.020
3	SÁNCHEZ Luis León	Rabobank Cycling Team	6	50		1:50	48.600
4	VELITS Peter	Omega Pharma - Quick-Step	4	40		2:02	48.453
5	PORTE Richie	Sky Procycling	2	32		2:25	48.174

lol, a 52km time trial! must admit I forget they did 52km time trials during GTs (Belles Filles 36km, Giro stage 20 - 18.6km)

(edit: obviously longer time trials give a bigger spread in finish times)

Wiggins was the only exceptional time there, and he was considered the best in the World at the time, but he probably did get some boost from the "unethical" TUE that was administered (well "why not if it's allowed in the rules?" said Wiggins years later)

Try harder to find something that shows Armstrong/Pogacar/Roglic/Dumoulin (etc) level cheating

 

[iceblink]

I'm pretty sure that the findings would be similar if the Dutch "investigated" Jumbo. And do you think that United Arab Emirates would blow the whistle on Pogacar? Same whitewash as Sky no matter how much clout.

You reckon the British Government is involved in some kind of cover up over Sky?

 

[Hugh Januss]

You reckon the British Government is involved in some kind of cover up over Sky?

You think they're not? Is it a "cover-up" if you look nearly hard enough to get to the facts?

 

[iceblink]

You think they're not? Is it a "cover-up" if you look nearly hard enough to get to the facts?

lol.

Right, the investigation was really promoted by anti-Murdoch groups within Whitehall (Civil Service/Government) - lasted nearly 2 years and cost several millions, but apparently this was a "cover-up".

Although of course they did uncover the serious issues of bullying, unethical TUEs and shambolic accounting of some testosterone packages.

It's easy to find the cheats in Cycling without spending millions - eg you can watch them have a mechanical on a climb and still win by 40 seconds...

 

[Cassirer]

2023 and some still arguing froome and wiggins aren't hilariously absurd is hilariously absurd.

 

[wansteadimp]

You think they're not? Is it a "cover-up" if you look nearly hard enough to get to the facts?

Doubtful - they can't cover their own sh!t up never mind carrying the water for Sky/Ineos.

 

[zlev11]

lol, a 52km time trial! must admit I forget they did 52km time trials during GTs (Belles Filles 36km, Giro stage 20 - 18.6km)

(edit: obviously longer time trials give a bigger spread in finish times)

Wiggins was the only exceptional time there, and he was considered the best in the World at the time, but he probably did get some boost from the "unethical" TUE that was administered (well "why not if it's allowed in the rules?" said Wiggins years later)

Try harder to find something that shows Armstrong/Pogacar/Roglic/Dumoulin (etc) level cheating

Froome tested positive

 

[iceblink]

Froome tested positive

Yeah I'll say it louder, TRY HARDER TO FIND SOMETHING THAT SHOWS AMSTRONG/POGACAR/ROGLIC/DUMOULIN LEVEL CHEATING

(etc etc eg Alaphilippe stage 13 TT 2019 Le Tour particularly infamous for the wild eyed finish)

Julian Alaphilippe smashes Tour de France stage 13 time trial to take victory and extend overall lead

Geraint Thomas finished 14 seconds behind the yellow jersey

www.cyclingweekly.com

 

[iceblink]

and to be fair to Alaphilippe, who is such a talented cyclist, he almost certainly got bullied into taking the juice by the manic and irrational hordes you see represented on this forum and the french media's obsession with Froome being Armstrong 2.0.

I mean the nutcases here and many other places have contributed to the creation of the current freakshow we have in cycling, with modern UNDETECTABLE doping which seems to cost a bit since it's mainly Jumbo, UAE and Bahrain...

All to counter Sky and their TUEs and puffers.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yeah I'll say it louder, TRY HARDER TO FIND SOMETHING THAT SHOWS AMSTRONG/POGACAR/ROGLIC/DUMOULIN LEVEL CHEATING

(etc etc eg Alaphilippe stage 13 TT 2019 Le Tour particularly infamous for the wild eyed finish)

Julian Alaphilippe smashes Tour de France stage 13 time trial to take victory and extend overall lead

Geraint Thomas finished 14 seconds behind the yellow jersey

www.cyclingweekly.com

Using the same arguments as above; Pogacar, Roglic, and Dumoulin have never test positive for doping nor have had teammates or teams accuse them. I believe they call that check and mate.

Sky/Ineos are also so good that they’re finishing above or close to these cheating cyclists you stated.

 

[iceblink]

Using the same arguments as above; Pogacar, Roglic, and Dumoulin have never test positive for doping nor have had teammates or teams accuse them. I believe they call that check and mate.

Sky/Ineos are also so good that they’re finishing above or close to these cheating cyclists you stated.

You just need to look at all of them (the REAL cheaters) climbing up a mountain in a big race, ALL ON THEIR OWN - missed the entire season (Dumoulin), mechanical (Roglic) and "can't hear the radio time checks" (Pogacar) and win by BIG MARGINS - JUST WHEN IT MATTERS

 

[SHAD0W93]

You just need to look at all of them (the REAL cheaters) climbing up a mountain in a big race, ALL ON THEIR OWN - missed the entire season (Dumoulin), mechanical (Roglic) and "can't hear the radio time checks" (Pogacar) and win by BIG MARGINS - JUST WHEN IT MATTERS

Just like when Froome puts over a minute into everyone in the first mountain stage and his team controls, a team that can drop anyone? Just like when Froome and his team participated in numerous feeds on climbs and before the climb? Just like if someone was that dehydrated to have such a high level of albuterol they’d be strongly to finish the stage? Just likes Froome’s own country was irritated he couldn’t get a single point from a TdR stage?

 

[iceblink]

Just like when Froome puts over a minute into everyone in the first mountain stage and his team controls, a team that can drop anyone? Just like when Froome and his team participated in numerous feeds on climbs and before the climb? Just like if someone was that dehydrated to have such a high level of albuterol they’d be strongly to finish the stage? Just likes Froome’s own country was irritated he couldn’t get a single point from a TdR stage?

What the *** are you talking about, the SKY team was the best (and most expensive) ever assembled to control the mountain climbs for their GC rider.

Didn't ever see Froome or Thomas suddenly climb up a mountain TT at superman pace ON THEIR OWN like the cheaters Pogacar, Roglic, Dumoulin etc

 

[SHAD0W93]

What the *** are you talking about, the SKY team was the best (and most expensive) ever assembled to control the mountain climbs for their GC rider.

Didn't ever see Froome or Thomas suddenly climb up a mountain TT at superman pace ON THEIR OWN like the cheaters Pogacar, Roglic, Dumoulin etc

Yes, on plenty of occasions.

 

[iceblink]

Yes, on plenty of occasions.

Well Froome has 2 bronzes at Worlds TT and 2 bronzes at Olympics TT - remind me who the cheaters in silver and gold were to beat him?