Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

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In my opinion some of you base your opinion, JV strength, on the fact cyclist like Kuss or Kruijswijk didn't win much stages/races this year. There could be something there, bad form. But from the Tour roster point of view i don't necessarily see it like that. They can still deliver just fine. Minus Dumoulin and the effects an operation might have on van Aert. Beyond that i don't see on why JV would be any weaker as a team compared to last year.
People tend to forget.

Last year Dani Martinez won the Dauphine, ahead of Pinot and Martin - Pogacar was 4th.

At the Tour Martinez got 28th, Pinot 77th and Martin 11th.

Warm up races don't mean sh!t :p
 
On TDF 2020 Pogačar had two teams. It's not like he was not welcomed or did not feel comfortable at JV.

On a GT race 2/3 of the mountains is just not good enough to say you have a good team.
Yes, that's because he wasn't seen as a serious threat until stage 15, when he beat Roglič to the line on Grand Colombiere.

Edit:
The way TJV rode it felt they were everybody's team if that "everybody guy" was strong enough. The Sky/Ineos train tactics that didn't work in the end. This year their approach should be different, hopefully. At least that's what they have been saying in interviews.
 
People tend to forget.

Last year Dani Martinez won the Dauphine, ahead of Pinot and Martin - Pogacar was 4th.

At the Tour Martinez got 28th, Pinot 77th and Martin 11th.

Warm up races don't mean sh!t :p
Well Roglic dominated most of the Dauphine last year, only because of his crash at the penultimate stage he quitted as a cautionary measure. Because of his Dauphine performance he had been seen as the "Man to beat" at last years tour, which had been true in the end.
Ok Pinot crashed out already at the first stage at last years tour and his team manager now says, that it has been a big mistake not to take him out of the race.
So there are still two outliers:
One is Martinez at last years tour, which had been much worse then his performance at the Dauphine. Don´t remember it that good, but I think he mostly had been there as a helper for Higuita.
Second one is Pogacar who performed in the end a lot better at the tour then at the Dauphine.

So one can say it´s not like in the old years where the winner of the Dauphine mostly had also been the winner of the tour (Armstrong, Froome), but the Dauphine remains in my eyes still a significant indicator for the tour...
 
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Well Roglic dominated most of the Dauphine last year, only because of his crash at the penultimate stage he quitted as a cautionary measure. Because of his Dauphine performance he had been seen as the "Man to beat" at last years tour, which had been true in the end.
Ok Pinot crashed out already at the first stage at last years tour and his team manager now says, that it has been a big mistake not to take him out of the race.
So there are still two outliers:
One is Martinez at last years tour, which had been much worse then his performance at the Dauphine. Don´t remember it that good, but I think he mostly had been there as a helper for Higuita.
Second one is Pogacar who performed in the end a lot better at the tour then at the Dauphine.

So one can say it´s not like in the old years where the winner of the Dauphine mostly had also been the winner of the tour (Armstrong, Froome), but the Dauphine remains in my eyes still a significant indicator for the tour...
I think Martinez also crashed early, although I never found out how bad it was.
 
Yes, that's because he wasn't seen as a serious threat until stage 15, when he beat Roglič to the line on Grand Colombiere.

Edit:
The way TJV rode it felt they were everybody's team if that "everybody guy" was strong enough. The Sky/Ineos train tactics that didn't work in the end. This year their approach should be different, hopefully. At least that's what they have been saying in interviews.
To me it felt like Pogačar was under his wing and Pogačar took advantage of that.
 
45 seconds behind, super fast on the Peyresourde, attacking on the M-B, only one to keep with Roglic on Peyrol, but he was not seen as a threat? Seems hard to believe. Was this in a doku somewhere?
Maybe I should have written "not seen as the no.1 threat." I think in Roglič's view, Bernal and Ineos were still the main threat at the time. In every race up to that day (stage 15) Roglič never tried to attack Pogačar and was always happy to work with him, when they were together in a small group, thinking "I can handle him if needed later". That changed after he lost that uphill sprint on stage 15. He became the no.1 threat and on Col de la Loze they already attacked him. After PdbF ITT Pogi has become the biggest "enemy" for Primož in races, despite him trying to downplay the rivalry in every interview.
 
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Maybe I should have written "not seen as the no.1 threat." I think in Roglič's view, Bernal and Ineos were still the main threat at the time. In every race up to that day (stage 15) Roglič never tried to attack Pogačar and was always happy to work with him, when they were together in a small group, thinking "I can handle him if needed later". That changed after he lost that uphill sprint on stage 15. He became the no.1 threat and on Col de la Loze they already attacked him. After PdbF ITT Pogi has become the biggest "enemy" for Primož in races, despite him trying to downplay the rivalry in every interview.
I think until then, even (especially?) after the attack on the Peyresourde, there was an assumption that the Kid would crack sooner or later. After Loze, and Ineos/Bernal suddenly being out of the picture, it gradually became clear that not only was Pogacar the only remaining threat, the crack wasn't likely to be forthcoming.
 
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I think until then, even (especially?) after the attack on the Peyresourde, there was an assumption that the Kid would crack sooner or later. After Loze, and Ineos/Bernal suddenly being out of the picture, it gradually became clear that not only was Pogacar the only remaining threat, the crack wasn't likely to be forthcoming.
Incidentally, I remember an interview after Roglic got his first yellow in the Pyrenees on the Sunday before rest day where he said "perhaps Pogacar is the strongest" (or words to that effect). I don't believe he was kidding. Although Bernal also remained very much the focus, he recognized Pogacar was super strong after he won the stage (& yeah, what followed the next Sunday on the Grand Colombier was the final confirmation of what he suspected at the time).

This year it'll be a bit different, because A/Pogacar is favorite (therefor he's the target for everyone else as well) & B/Ineos are taking a team with 3 leaders & will thus not capitulate as they did last year once Bernal was knocked out of the GC race. Carapaz in particular should be watched closely.

Honestly, I think this is shaping up to be the most competitive Tour in years where even though there's a clear favorite, we know the others will fight hard all the way. At this point one week before it all starts, my hype is real (especially for the first two "punch" stages & the TT on stage 5).
 
Honestly, I think this is shaping up to be the most competitive Tour in years where even though there's a clear favorite, we know the others will fight hard all the way. At this point one week before it all starts, my hype is real (especially for the first two "punch" stages & the TT on stage 5).
I agree, but my worry is that we think this almost every year, or before every GT, but in the end we know the winner by the first rest day*.

*Last year's Tour and Giro notwithstanding, obv.
 
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I agree, but my worry is that we think this almost every year, or before every GT, but in the end we know the winner by the first rest day*.

*Last year's Tour and Giro notwithstanding, obv.
Carapaz was leading La Vuelta on the first rest day last year. In 2019 I don't think anyone expected Carapaz to win the Giro on the first rest day, most would have thought Roglic would win. On the TDF first rest day Bernal was not looking so good after LPDBF and Thomas looked like favourite after the crosswinds and with the ITT to come.

In 2018 I don't think anyone expected Thomas to win the TDF after the first rest day and Froome was not looking good during the first half of the Giro either.
 
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Maybe I should have written "not seen as the no.1 threat." I think in Roglič's view, Bernal and Ineos were still the main threat at the time. In every race up to that day (stage 15) Roglič never tried to attack Pogačar and was always happy to work with him, when they were together in a small group, thinking "I can handle him if needed later". That changed after he lost that uphill sprint on stage 15. He became the no.1 threat and on Col de la Loze they already attacked him. After PdbF ITT Pogi has become the biggest "enemy" for Primož in races, despite him trying to downplay the rivalry in every interview.
 
Tour starts and all eyes and cameras are on Roglič and Pogačar. Commentators saying what is Roglič doing. Froome saying common mateship. I know, why would Froome say that, he is not Australian. He would likely use the term bloke. Or something like that. Anyway, at some point people start to notice. As it really shows. Where is van Aert? First they check in the grupetto. Nope, not there. A bit of panic is introduced. Finally they send a motorcycle with a camera up the road. After a few minutes of not so casual cruising. Yes there they are, van Aert and Sagan. Sagan yelling at van Aert let them go and all the shouting was to no avail.
 
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I never said they didn't work. You can work hard, but still be not that strong of a team.

Aru did no work for Pogi and abandoned after the first week. Formolo abandoned soon after, in the second week. De la Cruz crashed in the 1st stage (I think) and was of no use until he recovered late in the third week. Kristoff was looking for his own chances, with Laengen mainly helping him, at least for the first half of the race. Only Polanc and Marcato were fully commited to helping Pogačar. And while they did a remarkable job, those two alone do not make a strong Tour team, sorry. Give him the same amount of help this year, he has no chance at repeating the victory IMO.
His team this year is clearly better this year but his best moutain domestique is still worse than Kruijswik, Kuss and Vingegaard. I dont expect much especially from Majka, he seems to have lost his motivation and mostly is there to cash in for 2 more years. I read an interview where he said what he is looking forward to most at UAE is that he can take it easy, not riding for the GC, for most part of a GT.
 
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His team this year is clearly better this year but his best moutain domestique is still worse than Kruijswik, Kuss and Vingegaard. I dont expect much especially from Majka, he seems to have lost his motivation and mostly is there to cash in for 2 more years. I read an interview where he said what he is looking forward to most at UAE is that he can take it easy, not riding for the GC, for most part of a GT.
TBF, Majka's best GT performances (2014 thru 16 TdF) were when he was able to forget about GC/supporting Contador, and just go for stage wins and polka dots. I would read from those comments that he doesn't like having to spend all day every day of a 3 week tour close to the front avoiding splits, etc, vs if he can just do his job in the mountains, where he's good.
 
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TBF, Majka's best GT performances (2014 thru 16 TdF) were when he was able to forget about GC/supporting Contador, and just go for stage wins and polka dots. I would read from those comments that he doesn't like having to spend all day every day of a 3 week tour close to the front avoiding splits, etc, vs if he can just do his job in the mountains, where he's good.
Yea maybe you are right, we will see during the tour. My bet is on him being nothing like we have seen in the past when he was at his best, but of course I might end up being wrong.
 
Yea maybe you are right, we will see during the tour. My bet is on him being nothing like we have seen in the past when he was at his best, but of course I might end up being wrong.
I don't think we'll see him at his best either, but he and Formolo will probably share "last domestique in the mountains" duties.

There's an assumption that Pogacar will have the weakest team of the main contenders, but it's easy to forget that he lost Formolo (who was in flying form after his Dauphine stage win) early in the race. Adding Majka and McNulty this year means they won't quite be in SkyTrain formation, but they'll have a lot more presence, a lot later in the important stages.

Also, Majka or Formolo are ideal guys to send up the road as bridges for attacks if Pogacar needs time before the final TT.
 
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