Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

[Salvarani]

Up until now Bennett has been way better in a support role, IMO, even if they both like to race for themselves.

Maybe Kruijswjik just fitted better into the group, that will be going.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

Did anyone else sign up/get a ticket for the new Jumbo documentary?

Curious to see if it will be as good as last year's

 

[Carols]

Good first day at the Vuelta, Primoz in Red and Sepp in Blue polka dots. I hope they give up the jersey to a break on stage 3 and just focus on the real rivals.

 

[noob]

Did anyone else sign up/get a ticket for the new Jumbo documentary?

Curious to see if it will be as good as last year's

I am wondering as well. I'm so curious about what went on behind the scenes. Only I usually watch something more than once so it's too bad one cannot buy the movie and keep it.

 

[Lequack]

Team Jumbo-Visma welcomes Laporte and Van der Sande

Frenchman Christophe Laporte (28) and Belgian Tosh Van der Sande (30) will strengthen Team Jumbo-Visma for the next two seasons. The spring classics will be one of their main objectives.

Team Jumbo-Visma welcomes Laporte and Van der Sande

Frenchman Christophe Laporte (28) and Belgian Tosh Van der Sande (30) will strengthen Team Jumbo-Visma for the next two seasons. The spring classics will be one of their main objectives.

www.teamjumbovisma.com

 

[CyclistAbi]

Van Aert to target road race and time trial at Worlds along with Tour de France green jersey in 2022

'It would also put more pressure on me if there were several leaders' Belgian says ahead of Worlds

www.cyclingnews.com

Yes, van Aert will continue to have much freedom on the Tour. Basically from GC point of view Roglič will be able to rely on him on a couple of stages and as for the rest van Aert is occupied with different things.

Hopefully a combination of Martin and Dennis will be a perfect fit for Roglič. And on crucial GC stages for van Aert to do his thing. That should work out rather nicely if all are in great shape.

Then there is a need to have 4 climbers for support in top shape. Currently they have 2 and Kruijswijk is on the right trajectory. All in all still much work left to do for JV.

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic main problem with positioning isn't in the domestiques but in him losing the wheel of these domestiques IMO. It's like the whole peloton knows how easy it is to just beat him for a space in the peloton

 

[Rackham]

Van Aert to target road race and time trial at Worlds along with Tour de France green jersey in 2022

'It would also put more pressure on me if there were several leaders' Belgian says ahead of Worlds

www.cyclingnews.com

Yes, van Aert will continue to have much freedom on the Tour. Basically from GC point of view Roglič will be able to rely on him on a couple of stages and as for the rest van Aert is occupied with different things.

Hopefully a combination of Martin and Dennis will be a perfect fit for Roglič. And on crucial GC stages for van Aert to do his thing. That should work out rather nicely if all are in great shape.

Then there is a need to have 4 climbers for support in top shape. Currently they have 2 and Kruijswijk is on the right trajectory. All in all still much work left to do for JV.

Going for green is a bad idea.

I also get the sense there's a little bit of politics & power play going on behind the scenes with Wout van Aert's comments here about how he had to "postpone" his fight for the green jersey over the last couple of years.

The truth is Roglic will need an entire team if he wants to beat Pogacar. Just look at this Vuelta: when Roglic crashed, everyone waited, everyone pulled. Whereas in the Tour, WvA didn't wait (& probably wouldn't next year when he's going for green). It's small details like that which matter.

Honestly it really looks like Roglic will never get that 100% backing for the Tour de France from Jumbo (which Pogacar has at UAE). I get there are pragmatic sponsorship & contract reasons involved (Van Aert must be kept happy considering his level of talent & prospects) but the fact remains they're not going to win the Tour de France with split objectives (or at the very least they'll make it harder for themselves).

 

[Red Rick]

Going for green is a bad idea.

I also get the sense there's a little bit of politics & power play going on behind the scenes with Wout van Aert's comments here about how he had to "postpone" his fight for the green jersey over the last couple of years.

The truth is Roglic will need an entire team if he wants to beat Pogacar. Just look at this Vuelta: when Roglic crashed, everyone waited, everyone pulled. Whereas in the Tour, WvA didn't wait (& probably wouldn't next year when he's going for green). It's small details like that which matter.

Honestly it really looks like Roglic will never get that 100% backing for the Tour de France from Jumbo (which Pogacar has at UAE). I get there are pragmatic sponsorship & contract reasons involved (Van Aert must be kept happy considering his level of talent & prospects) but the fact remains they're not going to win the Tour de France with split objectives (or at the very least they'll make it harder for themselves).

There's no absolutes like "Roglic can't win without 100% team support". It objectively decreases his chances slightly.

The way I read this is mostly that it just means Van Aert will contest every sprint. If there's echelons I bet he still has to pull Roglic along.

95% of the whole equation revolves still around if Roglic can take on Pogacar close enough for all the small things to even matter in the first place. All in all I don't think pure W/kg contests are the problem, but the super hard attritional stages are.

 

[Rackham]

Maybe, but IMO Roglic has proven he's a very capable leader who can micromanage his teammates very well (& he's also tactically good). The only problem I've seen is he's just shorter & lighter than many of the bigger guys in the peloton, so the bunch high speed finishes are always dangerous for him. And I also think teams like Ineos are so much better at protecting their leader (Dylan van Baarle in particular is extremely capable at protecting Bernal in sprint stages).

Bottom line I don't like that interview from Wout van Aert, at all. I mean it's pretty weird where he complains about not being able to fight for green over the past two years & then openly admits he got that chance this year after Roglic crashed out, but chose to save himself for the Olympics instead:

“Then the next thing will be the green jersey. I postponed that for two years because there was a higher goal for the team. This year, when Primož Roglič dropped out, I did get that freedom, but I wanted to save myself for and work towards the Games. In retrospect, that was a good choice. But in the future, hopefully next year, that green will become a goal,” he added.

From my chair WVA looked pretty committed to winning stages & TT's without holding much back at all, so I don't know what he's talking about here.

 

[Sciatic]

And if he felt the need to spout off about that stuff, at least don’t do it when your team is in the midst of fighting for one the season’s big prizes!

 

[Rackham]

We saw today how JV came together as a team & owned that final climb in today's Vuelta stage 14. All for one, one for all. I knew that team selection was good when it was announced. Why? Because the human element was going to work. No split objectives, just a single goal. When Lopez attacked, the team response worked. It was nice to see.

But as for WVA's interview, he wants freedom to pursue his own objectives in the Tour (i.e. he clearly doesn't believe sole leadership for Roglic is good), whilst in the Belgian team, he wants that captaincy all for himself because he's "proven", it gives more clarity & it would "put more pressure on him if there were several leaders".

Self-awareness is not his forte.

 

[Leinster]

But as for WVA's interview, he wants freedom to pursue his own objectives in the Tour (i.e. he clearly doesn't believe sole leadership for Roglic is good), whilst in the Belgian team, he wants that captaincy all for himself because he's "proven", it gives more clarity & it would "put more pressure on him if there were several leaders".

Self-awareness is not his forte.

I don’t think it’s that he “doesn’t believe sole leadership for Roglic is good,” more that Wout is very aware of his own capabilities; a rider who can win bunch sprints, time trials and mountain stages really deserves to be given freedom to go out and ride for himself from time to time.

And it should be doable. Other teams have done it in the past; Zabel was collecting green jerseys while Riis and Ullrich won their yellows, Cav won 4 stages with Team Wiggo, Carrera had Abdu in green and Chiapucci on the podium, and Canc taking yellow for a few days didn’t hurt Andy’s chances in 2010.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

I don’t think it’s that he “doesn’t believe sole leadership for Roglic is good,” more that Wout is very aware of his own capabilities; a rider who can win bunch sprints, time trials and mountain stages really deserves to be given freedom to go out and ride for himself from time to time.

And it should be doable. Other teams have done it in the past; Zabel was collecting green jerseys while Riis and Ullrich won their yellows, Cav won 4 stages with Team Wiggo, Carrera had Abdu in green and Chiapucci on the podium, and Canc taking yellow for a few days didn’t hurt Andy’s chances in 2010.

And Wout won 2 sprints in TdF 2020. What is he on about being constrained?

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don’t think it’s that he “doesn’t believe sole leadership for Roglic is good,” more that Wout is very aware of his own capabilities; a rider who can win bunch sprints, time trials and mountain stages really deserves to be given freedom to go out and ride for himself from time to time.

And it should be doable. Other teams have done it in the past; Zabel was collecting green jerseys while Riis and Ullrich won their yellows, Cav won 4 stages with Team Wiggo, Carrera had Abdu in green and Chiapucci on the podium, and Canc taking yellow for a few days didn’t hurt Andy’s chances in 2010.

In my opinion he wants to just ride for himself and not have any work to do for Roglic. That he wants to compete not only in the sprints and TTs but in the mountain breakaways as well. Honestly he has the skill set to win Green and Polka Dots. Honestly I think him on DQS would be devastating or with AF if he and MVDP can coexist.

I think Telekom/T-Mobile is the best example of going for two goals but there was the inner team struggle and dynamic of Ullrich vs Zabel camp. Cav won 3 and helped Wiggins when he could, but Sky gave him no support until Wiggins said they should ride for Cav on stage 18. 2010 Cancellara in yellow had no effect on Schleck besides being able to stop the peloton on stage 2. He won it in the Prologue and kept it over the 4 flat and cobbled stage. Then helped Schleck however he could. The only time he finished inside top 25 was the 2 TTs, cobbled stage that he put in big work for Schleck, and stage 2. I think the most recent and best example is Sagan in 2015 and 2016 for Contador and Kreuziger. He rode himself inside out for them while riding for green and going in breakaways to help pace them.

 

[Rackham]

There was a moment in the Plan B Jumbo Tour documentary on the first Friday (when Van Aert launched his massive long distance breakaway attack with van der Poel which made UAE chase & the entire peloton ride full gas for 250km) when Roglic exploded, Grischa Niermann (sporting director & someone who comes across as pretty close to Roglic) in the team car said "we hurt them today... but we hurt our Primoz as well". The following day Roglic rode gruppetto & quit.

We've seen how in the Vuelta Jumbo have micromanaged the entire team (throwing the red jersey away when needed) in order to protect their riders' form & maximize everything/everyone for a singular goal.

Well, on that day in the Tour they blew up their ailing leader whilst chasing yellow for Van Aert. Now I'm not saying Roglic could have recovered after his crash, but JV objectively made matters way worse for him on that day (& yes, they even admitted as much themselves). Roglic collapsed physically & arguably mentally at that moment.

That was just an example of "how" multiple objectives & competing factions within one team can spectacularly backfire.

 

[Red Rick]

Nah I think he wants to basically do every sprint while still working for Roglic where it matters most.

 

[Red Rick]

There was a moment in the Plan B Jumbo Tour documentary on the first Friday (when Van Aert launched his massive long distance breakaway attack with van der Poel which made UAE chase & the entire peloton ride full gas for 250km) when Roglic exploded, Grischa Niermann (sporting director & someone who comes across as pretty close to Roglic) in the team car said "we hurt them today... but we hurt our Primoz as well". The following day Roglic rode gruppetto & quit.

We've seen how in the Vuelta Jumbo have micromanaged the entire team (throwing the red jersey away when needed) in order to protect their riders' form & maximize everything/everyone for a singular goal.

Well, on that day in the Tour they blew up their ailing leader whilst chasing yellow for Van Aert. Now I'm not saying Roglic could have recovered after his crash, but JV objectively made matters way worse for him on that day (& yes, they even admitted as much themselves). Roglic collapsed physically & arguably mentally at that moment.

That was just an example of "how" multiple objectives & competing factions within one team can spectacularly backfire.

Roglic was in a world of pain and not a leader anymore.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Nah I think he wants to basically do every sprint while still working for Roglic where it matters most.

Honestly, he should be able to. Roglic doesn’t need his help for positioning or anything. But green would come easier if he is winning mountain stages too.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Wout is being a bit stupid.

He wants to be the sole leader in Belgium team at belgian worlds. Country that right now has Remco, Stuyven, Lampaert, Wellens, GVA, Teuns etc.

He should watch Rouibaix 2019, flanders this year or e3 this year and see how having multiple options is far superior for a team in a one day race. Or brugge de panne 2020.

The only classic he won this year was when he had a teammate in the last group at gent wvellgem.

Roglic winning yellow would be so much more important to jumbo than WVA winning green. If you want to avoid this don't sign for 3 more years on a gc team.

 

[KZD]

I think that Van Aert has every right of going for green. He is among the top3 road riders in the world right now together with Pogačar and Roglić so it makes sense to let him chase green as its a jersey that he has more chance to win than Roglic's yellow in my view.

This doesn't mean that he shouldn't help Roglić but to think that one of the best riders in the world needs to devote himself mostly to his GC leader while going for an occasional stage win again doesn't make much sense and I am sure that he will still work for Roglić when needed. Besides, with Vingegård now on the team Jumbo can finally do a two pronged attack against Pogačar which could give them more chance to win the Tour without relying so much on his domestiques.

 

[titan31]

Wout also said this

You also need a team to take the green jersey in Paris

I think Jumbo even leaving Wout race his own race diminishes the chance of Roglic winning but if they split the focus completely and have guys there for Wout too, they've no chance, and could end up not getting either when you're fighting against teams who's sole focus is on one thing.

To me you have Wout focus on one GT and Roglic on another if Wout won't work. He's good but the GC is a far higher prize at the Tour and Roglic is one of the very few who can win it. Should be all for him bar one or two odd stage wins.

 

[Red Rick]

Guys.

I think Sagan is to blame for Contador not winning the Tour in 2015 and 2016.

 

[titan31]

Guys.

I think Sagan is to blame for Contador not winning the Tour in 2015 and 2016.

Well, 2016 was crashes and 2015 he wasn't good enough to beat Froome/Sky anyway and had come off a hard Giro. Also 9 man teams so you had that extra man anyway.

The other thing is that one of Roglics strengths over Pogacar is his ability on short steep climbs and him taking bonus seconds there is a big part of his challenge. Wout in challenging for green would also likely need to do well or win those stages as that's an advantage he has over guys like Bennett/Cav/Ewan etc so you'll end up two guys on your team wanting to win on those stages and competing against each other (and it'll look very bad and dumb if Wout loses by points he didn't get cos of Roglic on those stages or Roglic lost if Wout beat him for bonus seconds).

 

[bNator]

The problem in my opinion is not WVA going for green. I would expect TJV can guesstimate what green jersey is worth compared to yellow and what are the chances of Wout getting it compared to chances of Primoz/Jonas getting yellow as well as how much would Wout going for green hamper their chances of getting yellow…

The problem is how Wout presented those facts to the world. I mean not even Roglic dares to come out and say he WILL compete at next years Tour and go for yellow. Hell, even Pogacar won’t do that at this point. Yet here we are 11 months from next years Tour and Wout already assuming and publicly declaring he will go to TDF and go for green. Not his boss - Wout declared that. The only rider in peloton who did that… I mean how arrogant is this guy really?