Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

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Obviously when it comes down to mano-a-mano and the rider that can't respond. That rider is out of the contest. Still i don't feel comfortable watching on how often Rogla gets isolated on some races. Hence mano-a-mano is good. Rogla in need to cover the "secondary" attacks. That is not cool at all. One good thing i guess being from UAE side what one can expect is a Pogi attack or no attack at all. But there are still teams as Ineos. They could have the numbers and try to take advantage of that. In that case i guess Pogi will have to respond too.

We'll see.
 
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Obviously when it comes down to mano-a-mano and the rider that can't respond. That rider is out of the contest. Still i don't feel comfortable watching on how often Rogla gets isolated on some races. Hence mano-a-mano is good. Rogla in need to cover the "secondary" attacks. That is not cool at all. One good thing i guess being from UAE side what one can expect is a Pogi attack or no attack at all. But there are still teams as Ineos. They could have the numbers and try to take advantage of that. In that case i guess Pogi will have to respond too.

We'll see.
But it doesn't have to be 'game over', i.e. a GT is 3 weeks. One guy can be super strong the first week & not so strong the last week & vice versa.

So just because (theoretically) Rog gets dropped, he shouldn't be out of contention. That's the difficulty of having two leaders because it's a Damocles sword over whomever cracks first. I have seen the situation where rider A loses time & is then told to work for rider B but by the 3rd week rider A is stronger than rider B.

All hypotheticals of course but I feel Jonas would have been a lethal secret weapon last year because no one expected him at that level, but this year? With the start in Denmark & his second place in 2021, there's no way he goes into this race thinking he's anything less than joint leader.

So from a Roglic fan perspective (which I am), I don't really care about WvA's solo adventure in green (he's earned his right to chase whatever he wants), whereas Jonas... I don't know. He's going to have to demonstrable show he's stronger than Roglic or else his own goals will seem counter-productive.

I know for a fact if I ran that team there's no way I'd have anyone level or above Roglic in the team hierarchy, i.e. it would be all-in for the yellow whilst he's still in his prime.

I can pee in a bottle so that makes me overqualified for Jumbo
 
@Rackham

In theory yes but if you want to win TDF 2022 then you better not lose time against Pogi. At any stage of the race. Mano-a-mano against Pogi is OK. Closing "secondary" attacks by yourself. And to find yourself often is such situation. That is in my opinion not OK and a signal of a rather poor team job. As for Jonas and if nothing unexpected happens. He will likely stay glued to Pogi and if Pogi to be isolated to attack and try to put Pogi under difficulty.

We'll see.
 
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When Pogacar takes off Roglic is gonna have to react lol. If he can't do that he's *** and then it's simply deservedly so.
Remember 2020? JV basically blocked attacks on most of mountain stages with their super strong pacing. Pog took off once, on Peyresourde. If the weather is warm then even Pog may be able to attack only on final stretches of climbs like Granon and Alpe. I don't want to see such a race but yeah, JV can make it boring in the mountains.
 
Remember 2020? JV basically blocked attacks on most of mountain stages with their super strong pacing. Pog took off once, on Peyresourde. If the weather is warm then even Pog may be able to attack only on final stretches of climbs like Granon and Alpe. I don't want to see such race but yeah, JV can make it boring in the mountains.
Roglic still has to be at least 99% as strong as Pog to have have a decent shot at winning without Pog having bad luck or crashing. Maybe a domestique can close an initial gap once or keep it close before
 
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Roglic still has to be at least 99% as strong as Pog to have have a decent shot at winning without Pog having bad luck or crashing. Maybe a domestique can close an initial gap once or keep it close before
If they sacrifice an in-form Vingegaard then JV can probably neutralize Pog for most of any climb (except cold conditions OFC). Not 100% sure if they will do it though (limiting their tactical options against him). As for Roglic, yes, he has to be virtually as strong as Pog to beat him with strong JV support (or tactical Vingegaard option). Maybe they will be more offensive this year (making the race more interesting and not counting on the last TT again)

 
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May 28, 2022
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Van Aert saying he will work much less for Rog this year because he wants HIS green

There has to come a time where the team needs to lay down the law to WVA
I'm sure this has been raised in these forums before but who (apart from the riders who win them and their teams) cares about the points or KOM jerseys?

Both of them seem like a nonsense - an artificial construct to generate some interest and provide something for riders who may not win a stage and will definitely not win the GC something to aim for.

I've never understood why anyone else should be interested in them. To me they often don't reward the best sprinter or climber, or the best all-rounder, which would be really interesting. How about recognizing the rider with the best tally of stage finishes?

So, this year Jumbo Visma's bid for the GC will likely be weakened by WVA's bid for some sort of pseudo-personal glory or TdF relevance.
 
I'm sure this has been raised in these forums before but who (apart from the riders who win them and their teams) cares about the points or KOM jerseys?

Both of them seem like a nonsense - an artificial construct to generate some interest and provide something for riders who may not win a stage and will definitely not win the GC something to aim for.

I've never understood why anyone else should be interested in them. To me they often don't reward the best sprinter or climber, or the best all-rounder, which would be really interesting. How about recognizing the rider with the best tally of stage finishes?

So, this year Jumbo Visma's bid for the GC will likely be weakened by WVA's bid for some sort of pseudo-personal glory or TdF relevance.
I agree.

But that's what he wants (& probably has a clause in his contract which stipulates his freedom to chase it). I'm sure he could aim for the polka jersey as well, although stage wins are better than both. Clearly Sepp Kuss could also make such claims as well (i.e. chase a specific jersey) but he obviously has a different deal.

The part I find a bit odd is WvA's assertion he'll need to rest during mountain stages because he'll be chasing intermediate sprint bonuses during the rest of the Tour. Based on experience (like watching the Tour since the 90's...), that's not how the battle for green works: big points go to the sprinters for winning flat stages whilst mountain stages (contrary to WvA's comments) have even more importance because the sprinter who is the better all-rounder gets the intermediate points in the high mountain stages, often by going in breakaways.

Sagan won green all those years because he was a good climber (at least better than the other heavy sprinters who climb like JCB trucks), so WvA will need to piggyback breakaways in rolling & high mountain stages to score green points & also rely on the sprinter teams to pull back breakaways on flat stages (either before intermediate sprints or for the stage win/placement) because he can't get JV to do chasing just for his own goal.

Bottom line, WvA is going to need to ride with extreme versatility & constant aggression to get into breakaways & win whichever sprints he can if he wants green. Not rest during the mountains or watch breakaways take the intermediate points on flat stages & Jakobsen (for example) beat him to stage wins. WvA is also likely to impede on Roglic in the Planche des Belles Filles stage (because WvA could arguably win that one as well).

But whatever, as long as this all brings about more entertainment & drama, what's not to like? If it all goes to sh*t, Rogla can always go & win the Vuelta instead. It's not like I trust Grischa Niermann & co to make all these goals coexist & work properly either, so as a Rog fan I go into this Tour with expectations set to zero.
 
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Van Aert is obviously desperate to be the next Koen Bouwman.

Really it's not like he did much for Roglic last year. He was allowed to try and get Yellow himself on the hilly finish and wasn't good enough.
The Tour is the biggest main event of the year & WvA is one of those superstar riders who wants to matter in a race... he can't win himself.

So what to do? I'd give him permission to chase stage wins on certain profiles. But anything else is B.S. (including his hunt for yellow last year which served zero tactical purpose in the first week).

I mean no offense to WvA but no one really gives a cr*p who wins green. It's just a pointless statistic on a rider's wikipedia page. Like Bouwman gets much from winning two stages in the Giro than he does winning the mountain jersey.

GC > stages > auxiliary classifications.
 
Sagan's 2017 Tour was better than his 2015 Tour?
I can't remember.

I guess that proves my point, i.e. I can tell you who won the Tour or who won some memorable stages (2017 with Roglic in particular), but the green jerseys or random sprint stages? No.

I'd also say with regards to Sagan's 2015 & 2017 seasons I'd place his world championship wins > anything he did in the Tour those years.
 
I'm assuming in his scenario chasing green goes along with stage wins. If he were to let that slide and Roglic comes up short, again, the team leaves empty handed. It also helps keep the pressure away from Roglic.

Since Van Aert, unlike Groenewegen, doesn't need specific support to chase his goal, i don't think the team minds, when one rider who can get them a lot of exposure, has personal ambitions.

Van Aert is the second best rider in the world the second or third year running. He doesn't need to waste the better years of his career missing TDF goals. And i'm sure he will still help the team more than other riders as long as it doesn't hurt his own goals. He'll probably be of use in more stages than Kuss.
 
Belgian press is incredibly hyped for WvA in green.

The casual Belgian fan doesn't understand why WvA doesn't get any freedom(lol, he does) in Le Tour and are probably still mad Roglic didn't pull for WvA in Imola.
They're super hyped for a green jersey.
 
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Belgian press is incredibly hyped for WvA in green.

The casual Belgian fan doesn't understand why WvA doesn't get any freedom(lol, he does) in Le Tour and are probably still mad Roglic didn't pull for WvA in Imola.
They're super hyped for a green jersey.
Belgian press just reverts causation again. "WvA can win this *** jersey, therefor that jersey must be hugely important"
 
Jul 2, 2021
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If Girmay goes to the Tour that could scupper the captain of Belgium's quest for green.
It was Captain Belgium as a reference to Captain America ;) , the captain OF Belgium is of course GOAT Remco the beast, no contest about that...

Just wanted to congratulate Jumbo's el tridente of leaders in the Giro, some epic riding seen by Oomen, Foss and Dumo. As the preparation wasn't ideal, the management has decided to reduce the number of racing days next year and increase the altitude training
 
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