Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

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Hopefully he's sore but even "re-locating" your should will hurt the next day. He looked to be riding OK after. What really sucks is JV blew by him and were over a minute away before realizing what had happened. At that point there really is no choice but to keep Vingo closer to Pogacar. If I were DS I'd let Primoz free lance on the climbs to force a Pogi response. If Jonas couldn't hang with him that pretty much sums up the Tour.
For sure but I think his form will worsen the next couple days because of this crash. He did seem okay afterwards, but was racing on adrenaline.

If he drops Vingegaard tomorrow though... then yeah.
 
They need to fire the person responsible for splitting the team into so many different factions & interests. They're riding like headless chickens out there, or what some call 'rabbits caught in the headlights'.

Pure suicidal delirium today.
 
Van Aert's attack, what ever the reason behind was, didn't work out, but it wasn't that bad of a day for them., though it obviously could have been better. Their leaders didn't crash or get dropped, and neither their nor Pogačar's chances of winning have really changed much since yesterday. It could also be helpful that UAE has to work a bit more now, though it might not have any affect on the final outcome.

If they can't drop or at least follow Pogačar in the mountains, they could have been in front of him now and it wouldn't matter anyway. Tomorrow might tell us a lot more than the latest stages.
 
To me it all makes perfect sense; there are way more riders to chose from nowadays on the market than in the past, and you end up with riders too good to not have their own ambitions.

You have to take Wouts' own will as a factor or he leaves. And the latter would be much worse.
 
all of Jumbo's tactics fail because WVA is an extremely selfish rider. even on the cobbled stage yesterday, yes he did a lot of work for Vingegaard but he was already out of position to do anything on the stage for himself. if he wasn't trying to save his yellow jersey he would've waited for Roglic, I can't think of any other reason why they didn't. stage 4 was a failure to gain time on Pogacar with one of their GC riders. today was just horrible braindead crap.
 
The team should have been built around Roglic this year. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. Bringing Vingeggard as a coleader and wout van aert as a leader is so stupid.

Not even Team Sky at their peak would dare to bring a guy like Van Aert to the Tour. Nor 2 coleaders. And they were competing against Bardet, Quintana, Aru, Uran, Purito. Not Pogacar.

They did it in 2012 with Cavendish but quickly learned their lesson.

Every year Jumbo send a team built around Roglic to the Vuelta and they succeed. They destroy the race, with Roglic the leader.I don't understand their obsession with multiple leaders in the Tour. They wanted to do it in 2020 with Roglic, Dumoulin and Kruijsvijk. They wanted to do it in 2018 with Roglic and Kruijswijk. Makes no sense.

I would send Vingegaard to the Giro. He can win a grand tour there, if he is so good. He has not won a GT before.

Roglic should have a team around him for the Tour. Kruijswijk, Kuss, Laporte, Van hoojdonck, Benoot, Oomen, and then one of Dennis, Gesink, Bouwman or Vingegaard (after giro, if the Denmark grand depart is so important)

Van Aert should be focused on winning monuments. He was signed to do that and has underperformed slightly despite his extreme talent. I wouldn't say he is super selfish, but his presence in the team leads to something being off

2 leaders on a cobble stage is so dumb. You protect your leader the whole stage. He punctures or crashes and the whole team is there for him, they believe in him , they support him, motivate him. When Roglic crashed, he needed his team, and they were nowhere near him. Instead they were helping this Vingegaard who never won a WT Stage race

Look how Arkea look after Nairoman, Bora looks after Vlasov, even Movistar with Mas

Roglic has beaten pretty much everyone on grand tours, even Pogacar. Vingegaard didn't even manage put time into Carapaz in the mountains at all last year. That's right, he couldn't drop Carapaz. Just made time in the 2 long time trials. Meanwhile Roglic has cracked Climber Carapaz multiple times in the mountains. Because he is the only rider close to Pogacar's level

Roglic joined the team in 2015 , a team languishing in the shadow of Rabobank, changing sponsors every year, and within 5 years had won them grand tours and turned them into the top gc team in the world.

He was the top UCI ranked rider for 2 years straight and has beaten Pogacar on multiple occasions. He is one of only 2 riders to have beaten Pogacar in a GT, the other being 42yo Valverde who is in recovery from a crash.

Roglic didn't lose time to Pogacaar in the Tour de France in the Mountains ever. Vingegaard lost 4 minutes.

Roglic deserved the support. If 5 of his teammates aren't working for Vingegaard in that moment, he probably doesn't crashed in the hay bale
 
The team should have been built around Roglic this year. Absolutely no doubt in my mind. Bringing Vingeggard as a coleader and wout van aert as a leader is so stupid.

Not even Team Sky at their peak would dare to bring a guy like Van Aert to the Tour. Nor 2 coleaders. And they were competing against Bardet, Quintana, Aru, Uran, Purito. Not Pogacar.

They did it in 2012 with Cavendish but quickly learned their lesson.

Every year Jumbo send a team built around Roglic to the Vuelta and they succeed. They destroy the race, with Roglic the leader.I don't understand their obsession with multiple leaders in the Tour. They wanted to do it in 2020 with Roglic, Dumoulin and Kruijsvijk. They wanted to do it in 2018 with Roglic and Kruijswijk. Makes no sense.

I would send Vingegaard to the Giro. He can win a grand tour there, if he is so good. He has not won a GT before.

Roglic should have a team around him for the Tour. Kruijswijk, Kuss, Laporte, Van hoojdonck, Benoot, Oomen, and then one of Dennis, Gesink, Bouwman or Vingegaard (after giro, if the Denmark grand depart is so important)

Van Aert should be focused on winning monuments. He was signed to do that and has underperformed slightly despite his extreme talent. I wouldn't say he is super selfish, but his presence in the team leads to something being off

2 leaders on a cobble stage is so dumb. You protect your leader the whole stage. He punctures or crashes and the whole team is there for him, they believe in him , they support him, motivate him. When Roglic crashed, he needed his team, and they were nowhere near him. Instead they were helping this Vingegaard who never won a WT Stage race

Look how Arkea look after Nairoman, Bora looks after Vlasov, even Movistar with Mas

Roglic has beaten pretty much everyone on grand tours, even Pogacar. Vingegaard didn't even manage put time into Carapaz in the mountains at all last year. That's right, he couldn't drop Carapaz. Just made time in the 2 long time trials. Meanwhile Roglic has cracked Climber Carapaz multiple times in the mountains. Because he is the only rider close to Pogacar's level

Roglic joined the team in 2015 , a team languishing in the shadow of Rabobank, changing sponsors every year, and within 5 years had won them grand tours and turned them into the top gc team in the world.

He was the top UCI ranked rider for 2 years straight and has beaten Pogacar on multiple occasions. He is one of only 2 riders to have beaten Pogacar in a GT, the other being 42yo Valverde who is in recovery from a crash.

Roglic didn't lose time to Pogacaar in the Tour de France in the Mountains ever. Vingegaard lost 4 minutes.

Roglic deserved the support. If 5 of his teammates aren't working for Vingegaard in that moment, he probably doesn't crashed in the hay bale
Comparing with Sky is useless, mainly because Sky always had the best GC rider or the top favourite for the parcours, whereas JV have the Slovenian Heras and the Danish Peraud. Enjoyable riders, but in the end extremely average.

Also the comparison between Cavendish and van Aert is terrible. Cavendish can go fast for 200m in maybe 25% of the stages, whereas van Aert can go fast for over 100km in 95% of the stages. The latter can be helpful for GC leaders, as shown before. The former needs help to not OTL.
 
Comparing with Sky is useless, mainly because Sky always had the best GC rider or the top favourite for the parcours, whereas JV have the Slovenian Heras and the Danish Peraud. Enjoyable riders, but in the end extremely average.

Also the comparison between Cavendish and van Aert is terrible. Cavendish can go fast for 200m in maybe 25% of the stages, whereas van Aert can go fast for over 100km in 95% of the stages. The latter can be helpful for GC leaders, as shown before. The former needs help to not OTL.
Comparing them to Heras and Peruad proves my point that Roglic should have the full team support. Heras won 4 GTs, Peraud got 1 lucky podium. To call Roglic 'extremely average' is embarrassing.

Van Aert shouldn't be in the race, because he's too busy doing stupid attacks for the cameras and taking 20 green jersey points when it negatively impacts his team leader.

And I was very impressed by Van Aert work yesterday and don't think he is super selfish. But he just gets too excited doing his own thing all the time. He seems just not very intelligent and too ambitious to fit into the teams goal in this race, and his presence makes things too complicated. Look in the vuelta, no van aert, team has one goal, and they dominate the race. Instead of dominating stage 4 and capitulation the next day
 
Ok, I get that on paper today was a good stage for a break so I don't see an issue with Van Aert trying to force one.

But once it was just 3 of them, there should have been a call to wait once past the intermediate sprint.
They could, maybe should have done this. Or they could go on try something glorious and maybe fail. But the attempt was very entertaining and it's also about the sponsor getting time on air.
 
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Comparing them to Heras and Peruad proves my point that Roglic should have the full team support. Heras won 4 GTs, Peraud got 1 lucky podium. To call Roglic 'extremely average' is embarrassing.

Van Aert shouldn't be in the race, because he's too busy doing stupid attacks for the cameras and taking 20 green jersey points when it negatively impacts his team leader.

And I was very impressed by Van Aert work yesterday and don't think he is super selfish. But he just gets too excited doing his own thing all the time. He seems just not very intelligent and too ambitious to fit into the teams goal in this race, and his presence makes things too complicated. Look in the vuelta, no van aert, team has one goal, and they dominate the race. Instead of dominating stage 4 and capitulation the next day
Exactly, the Vuelta. That is as high as the ceiling will get for Roglic. Send him to the Giro and the Vuelta next year, and keep the Tour open for the above average riders on the team.
 
Schachmann was really angry with Jumbo at the german ARD podcast ("Tourfunk"):
"Jumbo really has to calm down now. Roglic caused again this crash because they are riding like stupid people, fighting for every cm and they can't handle it and they crash at the roadside. Thats a clear critisime from my side because they are putting all of us in danger and its totally unnecessary. If there is no place there is no place and then you have to accept that you can't be at the front. You can't crash everyone because of that. He (Roglic) was really lucky not to crash himself"
It probably the crash before the Vlasov crash. I haven't seem Schachmann that angry yet.
 
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