Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

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Is this even debatable? I guess we don´t know if something happened prior to the video but it looks like Roglic and his teammate ran out of road on the left side. His teammate ended up in the grass. Roglic loses his balance and moves to the middle of the road. Makes contact with two riders. One of them goes down. In the follow up the entire peleton tries to avoid them and on the other side of the road we have another crash.
Next time Schachmann crashes or causes a crash, he should get a taste of his own medicine.

I think this guy has a chip on his shoulder regarding Paris-Nice 2021 where everyone knows he only won due to Rog's crashes & the barrage ordered by the commissaires, followed by Bora drilling it. So now he wants to sell the narrative that Roglic is somehow useless on a bike. And considering Roglic is riding injured with a bad shoulder, the criticism is cheap & opportunistic.

In fact the whole 'bike handling gods versus loosers' narrative has gotten way out of hand in recent years, becoming nothing more than another fanboy circlejerk about supposed godly powers of favorite riders over others who're labelled scrubs on a bike.

"Oh wow xyz rider never crashes because he's the best" versus "he crashes all teh time because he's *** at bike handling".

Place a bale of hay in front of any rider who doesn't see it coming & let's see where those godly bike handling superpowers go (aka straight down on the tarmac).
 
Next time Schachmann crashes or causes a crash, he should get a taste of his own medicine.

I think this guy has a chip on his shoulder regarding Paris-Nice 2021 where everyone knows he only won due to Rog's crashes & the barrage ordered by the commissaires, followed by Bora drilling it. So now he wants to sell the narrative that Roglic is somehow useless on a bike. And considering Roglic is riding injured with a bad shoulder, the criticism is cheap & opportunistic.

In fact the whole 'bike handling gods versus loosers' narrative has gotten way out of hand in recent years, becoming nothing more than another fanboy circlejerk about supposed godly powers of favorite riders over others who're labelled scrubs on a bike.

"Oh wow xyz rider never crashes because he's the best" versus "he crashes all teh time because he's *** at bike handling".

Place a bale of hay in front of any rider who doesn't see it coming & let's see where those godly bike handling superpowers go (aka straight down on the tarmac).
Yep, that sums it up. Schachmann sounded like a douche.
 
The thing is we should encourage discussions about safety in the peloton. Hence best to restrain from being too emotional about it when it happens.

There for sure are merits on both sides. It's obvious if you watch a race or two. Things are far from ideal. Picking out one single example to build a case on. Here i agree that that doesn't make all that much sense. To tackle it like that.
 
Next time Schachmann crashes or causes a crash, he should get a taste of his own medicine.

I think this guy has a chip on his shoulder regarding Paris-Nice 2021 where everyone knows he only won due to Rog's crashes & the barrage ordered by the commissaires, followed by Bora drilling it. So now he wants to sell the narrative that Roglic is somehow useless on a bike. And considering Roglic is riding injured with a bad shoulder, the criticism is cheap & opportunistic.

In fact the whole 'bike handling gods versus loosers' narrative has gotten way out of hand in recent years, becoming nothing more than another fanboy circlejerk about supposed godly powers of favorite riders over others who're labelled scrubs on a bike.

"Oh wow xyz rider never crashes because he's the best" versus "he crashes all teh time because he's *** at bike handling".

Place a bale of hay in front of any rider who doesn't see it coming & let's see where those godly bike handling superpowers go (aka straight down on the tarmac).
Luck plays a role, for sure.

So does the ability to navigate the bunch, and bike handling as well.

How aggressively you push it and what risks you take matter too.

Sagan has great skills in this regard, but when he takes risks, luck matters too. So he crashed when he tried to move up in a corner before the first cobbled sector. Yet his skills are still undeniable, just recall his jump over Cancellara:

 
I don´t think it was anything personal between Roglic and Schachmann. Listening to the interview it is more about JV as a team. Mentioning Van Rensburg´s crash as the most recent example. Goes along with something Gerraint Thomas said in a podcast episode. Cannot remember the exact words but it was it was a similar story.
 
Kobe Goossens crashed yesterday and confirmed the things Schachmann has been saying yesterday. Maybe it's time to admit that Schachmann was telling the truth instead of claiming he's a girl, he's jealous because of PN last year (why exactly btw?). Or is Kobe Goossens also lying and a baby?
Who said he wasn't the reason the others crashed? If you watched the video of the crash, it's quite obvious. But it's not like he did it on purpose, the road suddenly narrowed and he braked fully and lost control of the bike and went to the right into the center of the peloton and as a result others crashed. There are crashes basically everyday and I got news for you, it's always someones fault.
 
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Who said he wasn't the reason the others crashed? If you watched the video of the crash, it's quite obvious. But it's not like he did it on purpose, the road suddenly narrowed and he braked fully and lost control of the bike and went to the right into the center of the peloton and as a result others crashed. There are crashes basically everyday and I got news for you, it's always someones fault.
Someone can accidentally cause a crash, no problem. But it's clear that JV is consistently causing crashes and near crashes by trying to go in not existing gaps. More than fair that colleagues in the peloton talk about that in post race interviews, but apparently that makes you girl.
 
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acm

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Kobe Goossens crashed yesterday and confirmed the things Schachmann has been saying yesterday. Maybe it's time to admit that Schachmann was telling the truth instead of claiming he's a girl, he's jealous because of PN last year (why exactly btw?). Or is Kobe Goossens also lying and a baby?
These things are usually discussed in the peloton between cyclist. No need to talk like that in the media, because now he looks like a cry baby.
 
I don’t understand Schachmann and Goossens sharing that to the media. It’s kinda BS plus it makes them look bad(fair) and babyish(fair).
As long as their criticism is accurate and fair, I think it's fine even if they shout it from the rooftops.

Good people can behave badly, and they too need to be called out on it. Riding dangerously in a peloton is bad behaviour.

If you only ever tell people off in private, you won't turn shared knowledge into common knowledge. The latter is needed for intra-peloton policing.
 
If several riders who have nothing to do with eachother claim the same thing, I tend to believe that.
I have been watching this Tour edition pretty close so far. I could be wrong but i didn't notice Roglič bullying other riders all that much. He even crashed because of others. But if he is bullying others then OK if they spoke out. I don't have a problem with that.

There is another side to this story. Reading in between the lines Schachmann said something in the lines of when they are fighting for position. JV and Rogla should realize they are not entitled to that any more then lets say Schachmann and Bora. Now personally i feel that there is an internal pecking order in the peloton. Hence if you see JV and Rogla coming. Do pay some respect, make some room and let them through. Problem solved. It's not like you will be able to hold them back. Maybe Pogi up some hill. And still they will make him run for his money.
 
I don't know that much about Schachmann, but he usually comes across as a rather stoic and matter-of-fact guy. If he goes out to say something like that openly I would imagine it's not in the heat of a moment or because he's a douchebag, but because it's something that several riders in the peloton have said behind closed doors, but Jumbo haven't changed their way so far. Roglic himself seems to usually be a gentleman, but maybe the team is encouraged to ride that way or they have started a culture in which the riders don't even realize anymore what they are doing. Maybe they feel they are the top team of the GTs and others just have to make way.
 
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At the same time there is aggressiveness in Schachmann words too. Saying JV/Rogla should back off and should not push to get through. Realistically that is never going to happen. Hence do the right thing. Back off and let them through. Don't make it personal.
 
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Roglic caused the crash with 13 kms to go in stage six . He was riding in the grass, lost his balance when he rejoined the peleton, somehow kept it up BUT the chain reaction caused Van Rensberg and 2 FJ riders to crash.
 
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