Teams & Riders Team Jumbo-Visma

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If he doesn't get Covid-19 WvA likely wins either Tour of Flanders or Paris-Roubaix as well. That's a 1994 Gewiss like season performance actually.

What Jumbo claims and what Jumbo knows are 2 entirely different things. Once & Telekom also proclaimed their intention to win the yellow jersey all those years. They knew they're not gonna beat US Postal eventually. Except for 2003.

If Jumbo can win the Tour de France. It's because UAE as a team collapses. In that case, they can also do so with Vingegaard and in this setup.

There isn't anything to win for Jumbo by fully supporting Roglic at the Tour de France. Actually they are only losing the green jersey and stage wins from WvA.

Jumbo actually gains more by not fully supporting Roglic. While still getting their podium spot with Vingegaard and maintaining their chance for the yellow jersey if UAE collapses.

Roglic, just like Zülle gonna end up with a way better palamares than Joseba Beloki by winning the Vuelta a Espana multiple times.

Andy Scheck actually should've ridden either the Giro d'Italia(again) or the Vuelta a Espana to become a grand tour winner at one point of his career . He's very happy with being awarded one instead. You are, without any bootlicking @Red Rick, too wise to consider his gt palamares better than that of Zülle, Roglic, Quintana, Menchov, Rominger etc just because of that.
Good points. I do agree with most of this.
 
Zülle had his own demons & sporting tragedies unique to the era he raced in.

1999 versus Motoman & the Passage du Gois being one of the biggest missed opportunities. I would still give him the title retroactively just to spite L.A.
 
"Zeeman will rejoin on Monday evening. “Wout is in much better shape for green than calculated in advance. The bottom line is that only Pogacar is still a competitor. After his two stage victories, it is becoming increasingly difficult within Jumbo-Visma to keep in mind that what he performs is not normal.

The fall of Primoz Roglic was very sad, especially for himself.

Pogacar has been great so far, but we are now entering a different area. Then we will see if he can also climb this on cols of an hour. We won't attack like a headless chicken, but we won't just drive to Paris and think it's all right. Jonas really wants more.”"

 
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"Zeeman will rejoin on Monday evening. “Wout is in much better shape for green than calculated in advance. The bottom line is that only Pogacar is still a competitor. After his two stage victories, it is becoming increasingly difficult within Jumbo-Visma to keep in mind that what he performs is not normal.

The fall of Primoz Roglic was very sad, especially for himself.

Pogacar has been great so far, but we are now entering a different area. Then we will see if he can also climb this on cols of an hour. We won't attack like a headless chicken, but we won't just drive to Paris and think it's all right. Jonas really wants more.”"

Jumbo talking about chickens :joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat::joycat:
 
If he doesn't get Covid-19 WvA likely wins either Tour of Flanders or Paris-Roubaix as well. That's a 1994 Gewiss like season performance actually.

What Jumbo claims and what Jumbo knows are 2 entirely different things. Once & Telekom also proclaimed their intention to win the yellow jersey all those years. They knew they're not gonna beat US Postal eventually. Except for 2003.

If Jumbo can win the Tour de France. It's because UAE as a team collapses. In that case, they can also do so with Vingegaard and in this setup.

There isn't anything to win for Jumbo by fully supporting Roglic at the Tour de France. Actually they are only losing the green jersey and stage wins from WvA.

Jumbo actually gains more by not fully supporting Roglic. While still getting their podium spot with Vingegaard and maintaining their chance for the yellow jersey if UAE collapses.

Roglic, just like Zülle gonna end up with a way better palamares than Joseba Beloki by winning the Vuelta a Espana multiple times.

Andy Scheck actually should've ridden either the Giro d'Italia(again) or the Vuelta a Espana to become a grand tour winner at one point of his career . He's very happy with being awarded one instead. You are, without any bootlicking @Red Rick, too wise to consider his gt palamares better than that of Zülle, Roglic, Quintana, Menchov, Rominger etc just because of that.
Wrong.

Wva is not guaranteed to win flanders or roubaix without covid. He is a Belgian pozzato and tactically incompetent in the classics a lot of the time. He was signed to win monuments and won one in 4 seasons despite often being the strongest. Maybe he wins, probably he doesn't.

Don't know what that's got to do with the TDF anyway.

Jumbo can win the Tour with Roglic if he is healthy 100%. There's little evidence to suggest the contrary.

They don't need UAE to collapse. They have a stronger team and Roglic is just as strong as Pogacar . Vingegaard could even beat Pogacar and he is not as strong as Roglic.

There is everything to gain by fully supporting Roglic at the Tour de France, and that is winning the Tour de France.

Nobody cares about 2 random stage wins for Belgian Pozzato in the first week.

I already forgot which stages Van Aert won, but I remember who won the Tour in 1903.
 
Holy hell. While I am not sure Rohan Dennis would have had this shape Horner still has a ton of points (pun unintended) here!

Chris Horner is absolutely right.

But, Wout van Aert is Wout van Aert. I read an interview yesterday where Merijn Zeeman was brutally honest, i.e. he praised WvA for winning the team the necessary prize money at this point, hence why they're satisfied with their start to the TdF. So there it is, money, money, money (I could obviously make an argument that other riders in the team are perfectly capable of winning stages as well, but that's another topic altogether, i.e. put Roglic in the TdF without GC ambitions (like WvA) & he'll win you polka & 4, 5 or even 6 punchy finishes. Sepp Kuss can also win mountain stages).

The cold hard truth is this sport & Jumbo Visma in particular is subject to the whims of its sponsors. When they say jump, the sporting directors say 'how high?'. When they say WvA must get as much exposure as possible & complete freedom to hunt stages, green, yellow & do whatever he wants, the men in the cars have no say whatsoever (hence Thursday's ridiculous breakaway stage). When they say Jonas Vingegaard is the future of the team & already co-captain (& is heavily marketed by their social media), he gets the better spot on the team car for his spare bike (alongside WvA, which was mentioned on Eurosport during stage 5) & more support.

Chris Horner looks at this from a sport point of view of GC & yellow as the 'ultimate prize'. The sponsors have other concerns. Would Roglic have crashed on stage 5 if he had his train of riders to protect him? (& ironically Roglic was riding the cobbles well, i.e. crashed in a town with only one teammate who wasn't exactly with him on the road at that point in the front group). A very real argument can be made pointing towards 'no' if we look back at previous crashes where in many such cases, it's the first in line of the train who takes the worst hit (usually Tony Martin in previous seasons). Jumbo knows whenever Roglic is alone, he loses wheels & gets bullied (stage 3 of the TdF 2021 for example). They were prepared to take that risk because they had other priorities.
 
Chris Horner is absolutely right.

But, Wout van Aert is Wout van Aert. I read an interview yesterday where Merijn Zeeman was brutally honest, i.e. he praised WvA for winning the team the necessary prize money at this point, hence why they're satisfied with their start to the TdF. So there it is, money, money, money (I could obviously make an argument that other riders in the team are perfectly capable of winning stages as well, but that's another topic altogether, i.e. put Roglic in the TdF without GC ambitions (like WvA) & he'll win you polka & 4, 5 or even 6 punchy finishes. Sepp Kuss can also win mountain stages).

The cold hard truth is this sport & Jumbo Visma in particular is subject to the whims of its sponsors. When they say jump, the sporting directors say 'how high?'. When they say WvA must get as much exposure as possible & complete freedom to hunt stages, green, yellow & do whatever he wants, the men in the cars have no say whatsoever (hence Thursday's ridiculous breakaway stage). When they say Jonas Vingegaard is the future of the team & already co-captain (& is heavily marketed by their social media), he gets the better spot on the team car for his spare bike (alongside WvA, which was mentioned on Eurosport during stage 5) & more support.

Chris Horner looks at this from a sport point of view of GC & yellow as the 'ultimate prize'. The sponsors have other concerns. Would Roglic have crashed on stage 5 if he had his train of riders to protect him? (& ironically Roglic was riding the cobbles well, i.e. crashed in a town with only one teammate who wasn't exactly with him on the road at that point in the front group). A very real argument can be made pointing towards 'no' if we look back at previous crashes where in many such cases, it's the first in line of the train who takes the worst hit (usually Tony Martin in previous seasons). Jumbo knows whenever Roglic is alone, he loses wheels & gets bullied (stage 3 of the TdF 2021 for example). They were prepared to take that risk because they had other priorities.
What's so weird to my eyes though is why sponsors would be more helped by Van Aert and Jonas than Roglič.

It doesn't make any sense to me. I don't buy into the idea that Roglič is less popular, if not the sponsors are Belgians and Danish.

One thing though that I think is weird is how TdF could allow Wout rb helmet instead of a yellow helmet when he was in gold. It signals how TdF values his presence over their own sponsors. It's just weird.

Wout has said somewhere that he can hardly get outdoors in Belgium without getting approached with people as he's so regognized. I guess that should be a clue.
 
Vingegaard on the rest day on Van Aert, and Im paraphrasing: "You cannot keep a rider like Wout down. If you do that, he will find another team team to ride for."

This is what is going to happen. Demand Wout to ride as a slave, he leaves and before you know it, you turned the best team in cycling into team DSM.
I think Roglic should go & target all the spring classics next year (Milan-San Remo, Flanders, Amstel etc.). If WvA wants the Tour de France as a playground, then Roglic should be able to have some freedom in someone else's playpen as well.

Demand Roglic ride as a slave for WvA in those races, he leaves and before you know it, you turned a team with the best stage racer in the world & triple GT champion (& second in the UCI rankings) into Quick Step.

...

Makes you think.
 
One thing though that I think is weird is how TdF could allow Wout rb helmet instead of a yellow helmet when he was in gold. It signals how TdF values his presence over their own sponsors. It's just weird.
It suits ASO to create a narrative whereby winning a couple of stages and the green jersey in the Tour is a bigger achievement than winning RVV, P-R or the Worlds so the helmet is a small issue (which anyway is probably allowed in some obscure UCI rule).
To a lot of fans and media the Tour is the only event that matters. Sadly.
 
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more from Zeeman, in Belgian press today:

“In terms of the standings, Vingegaard is closer to Pogacar than we expected. [...] The values Vingegaard already achieved on the shorter climbs in this Tour are the best he ever achieved in those conditions. That gives us confidence for the rest of the Tour.”


but to put it into perspective: also Caruso said that his numbers are better than ever before ;)
 
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