Well yeah, you would do much better i guess. They are only a pro cycling team currently leading a low ranking cycling race. God is this whining annoying.
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Great argument. Please stay away from public forums with this mindset. Hope you never voice your concerns about people that are "supposed to know what they're doing".
You have statet your argument. No need to repeat the same thing over and over again. People that know what their doing to the best of their abilities don't read this forum, so you trying to sound important doesn't really work.
And you seem to be unable to counter his argument by resonating to personal attacks. Cycling is not chess last time I checked, teams make mistakes all the time. If TJV is so bad what about Trek which didn't expect crosswinds in stage 7? And this time TD has the biggest fault for what happened. He needs to work on his self-confidence.
dont wont to be a stickler here but they are laeding the race you know
TD saw he would be droped anyway so he tried to do at least something; if he cant follow Wout in the mountains there is a problem; thats OK in my book. He now has a chance for a long break if his form improves
I still don't think it was a good move because he would have stayed closer to the GC and be more dangerous there. But it happened and this is what makes cycling exciting because I didn't expect TD to be a dom so it kinda shocked me. No need to throw tantrums now. I understand his fans are unhappy but I don't really think he has the legs to win, the level is just too high. With his current legs TD would have made the podium last year. TJV is kinda unlucky with 3 climbers who crashed since Dauphine not to mention Roglic himself and TD as well. If Benett and Kuss would be in Dauphine form, TD wouldn't have worked at all.
Who's trying to sound important? Who's saying Jumbo is reading this forum? This is a public forum, made to discuss cycling. This topic is created to discuss this team. If anybody here is trying to act important, surely it's you trying to act like the forum police who will decide what is acceptable and what is not.
The "Great argument" was ironic, because he didn't make an argument. So there is no argument for me to counter. Furthermore, i didn't attack him, more like the other way around. Anybody is allowed to voice an opinion, unless it is your opinion that someone else isn't allowed to voice an opinion. Keep up.
You sound like a whining child, that nobody heard and cared, when he was screaming his hyperbolic opinions in the first place, so you have a great need to repeat them many times more.
Like others said. All make mistakes and this is not chess. But you still keep repeating it when they raced very good and hold the yellow jersey.
Seems to me like you're the one who can't take an opinion since you invited him to stay away from public forums. Public forums are for everyone to express their opinion after all. While his argument was ironic, at the same time it says maybe we wouldn't have done any better than them.
They have different info than us and they try to make the most of the race. Maybe they are too conservative, who knows. But it's definitely not "insanity" the way they acted. DSs are humans and they recognised themselves things didn't go as planned.
After all the crashes and Dumo not feeling well, having 3 stage wins and the yellow jersey is not "insanity" at all.
And yet, here you are, whining about somebody else's opinion.
No, read it again. I said he should stay away from public forums with that mindset. I 'm not exactly inclined to cave because somebody doesn't like what i have to say, and his argument is "they're a pro team, they know better". It's an argument made to kill any form of open discussion and is the exact opposite of what a public forum stands for. Hence my remark.
I'll agree, that maybe the comical effect of the word "insanity" didn't quite come across as hoped, and i apologize for it. "Stupidity" would have been much more fitting.
Calling a pro cycling team insane and stupid, because they didn't ride as you thought they should is childish and narrow minded. They have all the information, telemetrics, rider info from the road, 3 week plan and many more to make their decisions. And they work with humans with their limits, not plastic toys.
If you ARE a child, i apologize, you are ok. If you are not a child, grow up.
More info from todays Roglič interview for Slovenia press. He said he and the team is very happy how everything went so far. They really wanted TD to be closer but he said he isn't feeling good enough right now.
If he feels better in the Alps, he'll get a chance to attack and make a run for it probably to get the time back. Otherwise he will help Roglič.
Roglič said he had bad injuries from Dauphnie crash and decided to race TdF 4 days before the start despite not feeling good. He hoped he'll get better in the first week of racing. One more reason JV didn't go all out.
Now Roglič feels much better and expects to fight until the end.
If he feels better in the Alps, he'll get a chance to attack and make a run for it probably to get the time back. Otherwise he will help Roglič.
Roglič said he had bad injuries from Dauphnie crash and decided to race TdF 4 days before the start despite not feeling good. He hoped he'll get better in the first week of racing. One more reason JV didn't go all out.
Now Roglič feels much better and expects to fight until the end.
So... if having an outspoken opinion about the tactics of a team is childish, then please enlighten me what it is to be verbally aggressive to a poster on a forum for having a different opinion than yours. It's nice to have Slovenian posters here, with the recent rise of Slovenian cycling, that can post some news that would otherwise be lost to most of the forum, from Slovenian news/papers/websites. But please don't mistake that for automatically having the high ground over posters that have been interested in cycling their entire lives, or come from a cycling culture.
It seems you are missing the point of a discussion forum. We are here to discuss and share views regarding cycling. We don't have to agree, but a minimum of common curtsy is needed. For the moment however, you do not meet those conditions.
If your outspoken opinions are insane and stupid and you need to repeat them all the time, you really don't qualify for talking over others on this forum. If you are following cycling for years or were even a pro one day and all you have to show for is insane and stupid tactics outbursts despite numerus info from others and JV why did things happen as they did, you really don't have much to go for.
And you really think Slovenians don't follow cycling for years or what?
You constantly try to position yourself over other with some supreme tactics knowledge and all you do is make a fool out of yourself. Other posters are telling you the same but the thing is people like you don't see that. You know better, right?
I'm really sorry no pro team picked you up for race analize and help. You would just advise to drill it 100% and get that 5 minute advantage in first week and simply defend it in next 2 weeks. Job done.
I don't know what all the snark is about but for a pro team in le Tour to win 3 stages in the first week and hold the yellow jersey with a guy who has shown he can win a GT seems like a damn good team to me! They may have made a mistake here or there, in some people's opinions, but they have Made the Race their Own to date.
I'm Slovenian and I've been lurking around here before Roglič even tried cycling and have followed his path from him getting mentions on Slovenian cycling forums from first amateur races all the way to him outgrowing his "the new Landa" thread name. And I agree with Logic-is-your-friend way of arguing even if we might differ about the content.
The rise of Slovenian pro cycling and with it the rise of Slovenian fans interest has brought to the surface all kinds of cycling masterminds seemingly out of nowhere... The cycling news on Slovenian national news 10 years ago had a few comments where people with actual cycling interest and knowledge were politely discussing the matter, while now they are almost the most commented news, with people who none knew before being loud as if they always knew everything and only now blessed us with their wisdom. Of course the matter are the sport-agnostic nationalistic fans... it was bound to trickle over to other parts of internet, this one being the case... pat them on the back and say how good Slovenians are and they'll be happy, if you find a more efficient way of dealing with them, please let me know.
The rise of Slovenian pro cycling and with it the rise of Slovenian fans interest has brought to the surface all kinds of cycling masterminds seemingly out of nowhere... The cycling news on Slovenian national news 10 years ago had a few comments where people with actual cycling interest and knowledge were politely discussing the matter, while now they are almost the most commented news, with people who none knew before being loud as if they always knew everything and only now blessed us with their wisdom. Of course the matter are the sport-agnostic nationalistic fans... it was bound to trickle over to other parts of internet, this one being the case... pat them on the back and say how good Slovenians are and they'll be happy, if you find a more efficient way of dealing with them, please let me know.
How many long range attacks a GC contender has in his legs, on a GT race? I would say one, maybe two, at best. In week 1 Roglič should do 3? Stage 6, 8 and 9? Pogačar had to do it, to remain relevant in GC. Roglič hence still has one left, after stage 9 unfolded. His team looking good and he wearing maillot jaune. There is a big chance Bernal would push harder, if Roglič would follow Pogačar. Instead of Pogačar gaining 40s, both gaining around 20s. In my opinion better to instead take the bonifications and to do less work in week 1.
It depends on what you consider "long range". Nobody expected solo hitting for home on Lusette, but they expected at least a semblance of a race rather than a group recce. Nothing anybody relevant tried on stages 8 or 9 could really be considered "long range". They were almost all within the last couple of kilometres of the last climb of the day (a bit more on Peyresourde). Attacking on Port de Balès would have been "long range". Attacking on the final climb is hard to consider 'long range' unless you absolutely drill it from the bottom like Sastre in '08. Nobody was expecting a Chiapucci here. How exactly would Bernal being forced to push harder be a bad thing? If they all catch one another, they gain more time on their rivals than they did. If he blows up, you gain more time on him! Also he could have shared work with Tadej while Bernal was forced to work alone behind, meaning he would be fresher than Bernal the following day. As it was, his reluctance to ride meant Bernal got a nice recovery at the end from the stage's earlier exertions, without any risk of losing time, and another day ticked off with no time losses while he rides into form. If Jumbo lose this race by a minute or less, they will have nobody to blame but themselves.
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In modern pro cycling, doing what Pogačar did, it usually doesn't get much better then this.
P.S. And Dumoulin wasn't wasted for nothing. Without Dumoulin starting to pull, other GC favorites would have had domestique(s) at their side. If Roglič can't have his domestique(s) at his side, this is the second best scenario for him. He likes to ride in a select group of favorites, up a steep climb (mano a mano). He avoids chasing, if he doesn't need to, lets others do it, like a true gentleman. But that is not boring, that is strategic, confident and smart riding.
P.S. And Dumoulin wasn't wasted for nothing. Without Dumoulin starting to pull, other GC favorites would have had domestique(s) at their side. If Roglič can't have his domestique(s) at his side, this is the second best scenario for him. He likes to ride in a select group of favorites, up a steep climb (mano a mano). He avoids chasing, if he doesn't need to, lets others do it, like a true gentleman. But that is not boring, that is strategic, confident and smart riding.
Stage 8 wasn't all that different, regarding the attack itself, on how other favorites responded (including Roglič), and regarding the result.
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