Team Jumbo-Visma

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Ah, the good old Sky/Ineos strategy :p
Perfect the technique then replicate. But for Jumbo to do a Skyneos they need a system that creates a competitive advantage that other teams cannot catch up to.

I think Jumbo has simply been lucky to find the best responder. Geraint Thomas is 36, there is only so much you can get out of a 36 year old "mule". But finding a 24 year old super responder can keep you in front until the other guys find someone else more suitable.

On the Alpe this year, hanging onto Vingo and Pog's wheels, Thomas was quite a bit faster than when he won there in 2018 launching off the Sky train lead out. So the "good old Sky/Ineos strategy" had achieved much since 2018 with an ageing rider but not enough to win the arms race.

Poor decisions by Pog on stage 11 and JV's team wide strength provided some convenient excuses to explain the inexplicable. But 58kg skeletons simply don't do TT's like we saw in Saturday without a lot of "help". More obvious than Contador beating the best time trialler in the world at Annecy 13 years ago. Ah, but aero. Ah, but WvA on the same team had the same advantage and only won because Vingo backed off.

All so obvious to me and for this reason I don't find it entertaining any more than I do WWF wrestling. But Ineos will be searching for the next "talent". Who knows they might hit pay dirt just as Jumbo did. Meanwhile Pog will be "trimming down" for the fight of the century in 2023.
 
But Ineos will be searching for the next "talent". Who knows they might hit pay dirt just as Jumbo did. Meanwhile Pog will be "trimming down" for the fight of the century in 2023.
I am actually curious though if its indeed only searching for the right guy or if they were left behind in the arms race for now. Vingegaard was also considerably better than prime Foome on Alpe while leaving seconda on the road with this start-stop waiting games with Pogacar. Combined with his TT I am quite convinced even the best Sky project so far (Froome) would have bot won this year’s Tour. So they may have to step up. Then again, they made Thomas better than at his Tour win. So maybe its really just about finding a young guy.
 
I am actually curious though if its indeed only searching for the right guy or if they were left behind in the arms race for now. Vingegaard was also considerably better than prime Foome on Alpe while leaving seconda on the road with this start-stop waiting games with Pogacar. Combined with his TT I am quite convinced even the best Sky project so far (Froome) would have bot won this year’s Tour. So they may have to step up. Then again, they made Thomas better than at his Tour win. So maybe its really just about finding a young guy.
If Bernal (who is a legit talent unlike the lab rats Dawg or G.) doesn't comeback capable of, at least, compete at a high level in GT's they'll unleash little Piddy on the peloton.
 
The key in that post was "Sky 2012-14 style regime". Which is basically dropping weight while keeping/increasing power. (Wiggins, Geraint Thomas, Froome)

If we are under the assumption this 'technique' isn't already been used... :)
While these guys are all ridiculous, I also think they all have a lankier frame than Van Aert. Van Aert is built like a truck compared to these guys. Losing muscle mass isn't gonna do anything good for Van Aert.
 
Reactions: noob
There is evidence Wiggins, Froome & Thomas did anything against the rules? I mean are we assuming Wout/Jumbo are not doing anything against the rules too given their boss openly admits they studied Sky's marginal gains and improved on them to beat them at their own game? Likewise if we want to assume Wout/Jumbo are doing things against the rules, then there was no reason for Wouts coach to proclaim Wout cannot be a GC contender because he doesn't have the body for it. If we want to assume it's all possible by simply saying Wiggins, Froome & Thomas did it, so why not from Jumbo for Wout?
 
Perfect the technique then replicate. But for Jumbo to do a Skyneos they need a system that creates a competitive advantage that other teams cannot catch up to.

I think Jumbo has simply been lucky to find the best responder. Geraint Thomas is 36, there is only so much you can get out of a 36 year old "mule". But finding a 24 year old super responder can keep you in front until the other guys find someone else more suitable.

On the Alpe this year, hanging onto Vingo and Pog's wheels, Thomas was quite a bit faster than when he won there in 2018 launching off the Sky train lead out. So the "good old Sky/Ineos strategy" had achieved much since 2018 with an ageing rider but not enough to win the arms race.

Poor decisions by Pog on stage 11 and JV's team wide strength provided some convenient excuses to explain the inexplicable. But 58kg skeletons simply don't do TT's like we saw in Saturday without a lot of "help". More obvious than Contador beating the best time trialler in the world at Annecy 13 years ago. Ah, but aero. Ah, but WvA on the same team had the same advantage and only won because Vingo backed off.

All so obvious to me and for this reason I don't find it entertaining any more than I do WWF wrestling. But Ineos will be searching for the next "talent". Who knows they might hit pay dirt just as Jumbo did. Meanwhile Pog will be "trimming down" for the fight of the century in 2023.
At least with Contador, he was one of the best TTers in the world. He won most of his GTs in the TT, not the climbs
 
At least with Contador, he was one of the best TTers in the world. He won most of his GTs in the TT, not the climbs
Contador won in the mountains and out TT’d rival climbers. But 62Kg climbers (AC 2009) don’t beat the overwhelming best TT specialist in the world back then without help.

Same goes today with 58Kg whippets nearly beating his 76kg (?) teammate on a who was trouncing everyone this TdF and has an even more active Clinic thread than this one.

Aero doesn’t explain this. Obvious the new Chicken was holding back in the mountains. Wrap your head around that - what would we see if he went for broke?

Sorry but there is only one way this happens and that is with extra “help”. Enjoy the show.
 
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These guys are taking marginal gains to a whole different level.
What made the difference? They listen to podcasts and consult football coaches for tactics...

First time I saw that headline I gave a little chuckle and thought "surely people won't be stupid enough to go viral with this"

Now it's turned into the worst brain aneurysm I've had from reading cycling related stuff
 
First time I saw that headline I gave a little chuckle and thought "surely people won't be stupid enough to go viral with this"

Now it's turned into the worst brain aneurysm I've had from reading cycling related stuff
I don't think a Ten Hag effect will still be good pr in 11 months.

Man Utd are famous for being sh*t, basically, so unless he works miracles (where no one has succeeded in 10 years), Jumbo Visma might need to find a new inspiration (their version of 'marginal gains') to explain their superiority in 2023.
 
Reactions: Red Rick
I don't think a Ten Hag effect will still be good pr in 11 months.

Man Utd are famous for being sh*t, basically, so unless he works miracles (where no one has succeeded in 10 years), Jumbo Visma might need to find a new inspiration (their version of 'marginal gains') to explain their superiority in 2023.
United fans reading this thinking they may loan out McFred to Jumbo Visma
 
These guys are taking marginal gains to a whole different level.
What made the difference? They listen to podcasts and consult football coaches for tactics...

They are so full of ***, compared to them the whole Sky pr-machine sounds super professional.
Someone should really ask Wout how he managed to keep his sprint while going from climbing like a rock (pre 2020 pandemic) to dropping top climbers. Because winning bunch sprints and winning the green jersey would require you do pretty much the opposite specific training that would be needed to work on your ability on longer climbs. Like, it would be one thing if he slimmed down and became worse in sprints and as a classics rider while doing this, but it's just sooo over the top that I just can't buy the Belgian Bugno...
 
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Same goes today with 58Kg whippets nearly beating his 76kg (?) teammate on a who was trouncing everyone this TdF and has an even more active Clinic thread than this one.

Sorry but there is only one way this happens and that is with extra “help”. Enjoy the show.
But if WVA's doping, the surely it's not the doping that's making the relative difference between big guy and wee guy?

More likely it's wee guys working on their TTs and WVA being more fatigued by the end of the tour (GC guys being mostly protected, Van Aert spending a lot of time in the wind)
 
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But if WVA's doping, the surely it's not the doping that's making the relative difference between big guy and wee guy?

More likely it's wee guys working on their TTs and WVA being more fatigued by the end of the tour (GC guys being mostly protected, Van Aert spending a lot of time in the wind)
I agree with you. Whatever we say about WvA we should be equally scathing if not more so of little Vingo’s TTs. The article in CN a week or two back laid it out. Vingo came nowhere in his national TT titles just two years ago. Now he is line ball with WvA who won the stage. Thermonuclear enhancement.
 

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