Team Ratings of the Tour

My Rating for teams in the Tour ..what is yours ?


Excellent
INEOS…………………..............1st and 2nd on GC & white jersey
Deceuninck - Quick Step …...Alaphilipe in yellow for ages.top 5 on GC and 3 stage wins
Team Jumbo-Visma ……….....4 stage wins & podium on GC
Bora – ……………………..........…Green Jersey, 4th on GC and 1 stage win
Lotto Soudial……………........…4 stage wins
Mitchelin Scot ……………......…4 stage wins


Very good
FDJ …………………................Pinot & 1 stage win
Bahrain ………………..............2 stage wins
Movistar …………...............…3 top 10 on GC …best team & 1 stage win


Good
E F Education First .............7th on GC
Team Arkéa Samsic ..........…top 10 on GC
Ag2 ............................. ..KOM
Wanty ............................12th on GC …better than a lot of WT teams

Poor
Astana ..........................…No stage, Leader missing. Did a lot of attacking in breakaways
Sunweb .........................…No stage and no attack on green. Leader missing Did a lot of attacking in breakaways

Very Poor
UAE…..............................Massive pay of riders like D Martin,Rui Costa & Kristoff …no where to be seen
Katusha …....................... Missing in action, looked disorganized …
Trek ..............................Marquee rider and no top 10 on GC or stage wins

Abysmal
Direct Energie …...............Missed breakaways, Marquee climber dropped by Vivani on may stages
Dimension Data ….............Where were they ? Mostly missing ..some riders never appeared at all on our screens
 
HelloDolly said:
My Rating for teams in the Tour ..what is yours ?


Excellent
INEOS…………………..............1st and 2nd on GC & white jersey
Deceuninck - Quick Step …...Alaphilipe in yellow for ages.top 5 on GC and 3 stage wins
Team Jumbo-Visma ……….....4 stage wins & podium on GC
Bora – ……………………..........…Green Jersey, 4th on GC and 1 stage win
Lotto Soudial……………........…4 stage wins
Mitchelin Scot ……………......…4 stage wins


Very good
FDJ …………………................Pinot & 1 stage win
Bahrain ………………..............2 stage wins
Movistar …………...............…3 top 10 on GC …best team & 1 stage win


Good
E F Education First .............7th on GC
Team Arkéa Samsic ..........…top 10 on GC
Ag2 ............................. ..KOM
Wanty ............................12th on GC …better than a lot of WT teams

Poor
Astana ..........................…No stage, Leader missing. Did a lot of attacking in breakaways
Sunweb .........................…No stage and no attack on green. Leader missing Did a lot of attacking in breakaways

Very Poor
UAE…..............................Massive pay of riders like D Martin,Rui Costa & Kristoff …no where to be seen
Katusha …....................... Missing in action, looked disorganized …
Trek ..............................Marquee rider and no top 10 on GC or stage wins

Abysmal
Direct Energie …...............Missed breakaways, Marquee climber dropped by Vivani on may stages
Dimension Data ….............Where were they ? Mostly missing ..some riders never appeared at all on our screens
Did you forget that they had two days in the yellow jersey?

I would probably have a lot of the teams a bit lower.
 
Jul 15, 2019
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HelloDolly said:
My Rating for teams in the Tour ..what is yours ?


Excellent
INEOS…………………..............1st and 2nd on GC & white jersey
Deceuninck - Quick Step …...Alaphilipe in yellow for ages.top 5 on GC and 3 stage wins
Team Jumbo-Visma ……….....4 stage wins & podium on GC
Bora – ……………………..........…Green Jersey, 4th on GC and 1 stage win
Lotto Soudial……………........…4 stage wins
Mitchelin Scot ……………......…4 stage wins


Very good
FDJ …………………................Pinot & 1 stage win
Bahrain ………………..............2 stage wins
Movistar …………...............…3 top 10 on GC …best team & 1 stage win


Good
E F Education First .............7th on GC
Team Arkéa Samsic ..........…top 10 on GC
Ag2 ............................. ..KOM
Wanty ............................12th on GC …better than a lot of WT teams

Poor
Astana ..........................…No stage, Leader missing. Did a lot of attacking in breakaways
Sunweb .........................…No stage and no attack on green. Leader missing Did a lot of attacking in breakaways

Very Poor
UAE…..............................Massive pay of riders like D Martin,Rui Costa & Kristoff …no where to be seen
Katusha …....................... Missing in action, looked disorganized …
Trek ..............................Marquee rider and no top 10 on GC or stage wins

Abysmal
Direct Energie …...............Missed breakaways, Marquee climber dropped by Vivani on may stages
Dimension Data ….............Where were they ? Mostly missing ..some riders never appeared at all on our screens
Cofidis and CCC so anonymous you forgot they were in the race?

CCC's orange was visible in the breaks, but they didn't come particularly close to winning anything. Perichon showed up in the last week but I can't remember Cofidis doing much else. Both poor, not as bad as DD or Direct Energie though.

I'd have to call UAE abysmal given the riders they brought and what they must be paying them. Not sure how much value Wanty's 12th has either, given it was 15 minutes behind 10th - they were OK though.
 
I don't really approve of the scale you have invented but...

Excellent
Deceuninck - Quick Step - even if Viviani and Enric Mas were both unimpressive, Alaphilippe, Asgreen and the lead out guys more than made up for it
Bora Hansgrohe - Perfect race, they succeeded in all their ambitions and looked the coolest of all the teams with GC ambitions when it mattered.
Lotto Soudal - who would have thought that they'd end up with 4 stage wins and Wellens wearing the KoM jersey for so many days?

Very good
INEOS - they rode a disciplined race, but the team was weak when it mattered in the high mountains.
Groupama FdJ - Good race by FDJ, especially by Gaudu who tired the competitors so Pinot could attack
Jumbo Visma - Some tactical errors and the fact that Groenewegen was not quite delivering subtracts a little from an otherwise impressive mountain performance by Crashwijk, Bennett and that skinny Belgian dude.
Mitchelton Scott - when their main ambition failed, they were quick to adapt and achieve new (less ambitious) goals

Good
Bahran Merida - They achieved two great wins through breakaways, but Colbrelli and Mohoric were both a little underwhelming
Wanty Group Goubert - I did not really see that Martin guy(llaume) much, but I heard he finished 12th. Also Xandro Meurisse continued his impressive riding from Dauphiné and Luxembourg
EF Education First - Uran Uran did what could be expected of him and his tour will probably mostly be remembered for the undisciplined rage he displayed after the Tignes stage was stopped. The team was decent in general.

Poor
CCC - Geschke and GVA showed the colors, but not much else to remember them for
Arkea Samsic - decent performance by Barguil (I'm sure Landa would disagree), but I really did not notice the rest of the team much
Trek Segafredo - Porte finally got through stage 9 but now it's too late and his best years are behind him. Ciccone's two days in yellow is the only great thing that Trek achieved.
Movistar - They did their usual thing in the TdF.

Very Poor
Astana - piss-poor performance by everyone around Fuglsang in the first week of the Tour but eventually that did not matter much as Fuglsang could not repeat his spring form. Team should've adapted faster like MTS did.
Direct Energie - Calmejane's way of racing saved their tour a bit and Bonifazio was visible in the sprints
AG2R La Mondiale - Consolation price for Bardet with KoM jersey but not what they came for.
Cofidis - I did not notice them much at all. Herrada was very disappointing when he finally managed to get into breaks.
Sunweb - Matthews whining to the press before the Tour had even started is possibly very emblematic of their Tour.

Abysmal
Katusha Alpecin - I did not see anyone except Würtz and Zakarin in some breakaways. Of those two, only Würtz impressed. Rest of the team were invisible.
Team Dimension Data - The whole team was invisible.
UAE Team Emirates - Not invisible, but the fact that Aru sitting last in a not-too-decimated group of favourites is the main thing to remember probably says it all.
 
Looking at results and results only, I pretty much agree with the picture in the OP. But if we look at what they got vs. what the potential is/was, some teams overachieved, others underachieved.

I would only have three "Excellent" teams, Ineos-Jumbo-DQ.

Very Good: Bora, Groupama, MS, Lotto Soudal: all had shining moments but missed something, whether it's a podium, or the leader faltered, or parts did great but team didn't carry weight in the GC picture.

Good: Bahrain, EF, TAS, and Wanty for the reason mentioned in the OP.

Not too good: the rest.

Abysmal: Movistar: for the love of God, they could have won this bike race. No Froome, no Dumourain. But it's the same old, same old bullsh with that team. It started with a bad TTT, then at the PDBF, in that "everyone for himself" environment, Landa made a bold but rather foolish move to assert himself as the leader. Still, he's in it and it was obvious that Quintana wasn't too good. That's when a DS has to show leadership: "Mikel is the leader, Don we'll re-pay you at the Vuelta, Nairo you work for Mikel". That's it. Instead, the un-protected Landa lost time on stage 10, et caetera, et caetera...a mess. Best team award :D . There wasn't a team. I hate to ask for people to lose their job, we all have a family to take care of...but some heads need to roll.
 
Tonton said:
Looking at results and results only, I pretty much agree with the picture in the OP. But if we look at what they got vs. what the potential is/was, some teams overachieved, others underachieved.

I would only have three "Excellent" teams, Ineos-Jumbo-DQ.

Very Good: Bora, Groupama, MS, Lotto Soudal: all had shining moments but missed something, whether it's a podium, or the leader faltered, or parts did great but team didn't carry weight in the GC picture.

Good: Bahrain, EF, TAS, and Wanty for the reason mentioned in the OP.

Not too good: the rest.

Abysmal: Movistar: for the love of God, they could have won this bike race. No Froome, no Dumourain. But it's the same old, same old bullsh with that team. It started with a bad TTT, then at the PDBF, in that "everyone for himself" environment, Landa made a bold but rather foolish move to assert himself as the leader. Still, he's in it and it was obvious that Quintana wasn't too good. That's when a DS has to show leadership: "Mikel is the leader, Don we'll re-pay you at the Vuelta, Nairo you work for Mikel". That's it. Instead, the un-protected Landa lost time on stage 10, et caetera, et caetera...a mess. Best team award :D . There wasn't a team. I hate to ask for people to lose their job, we all have a family to take care of...but some heads need to roll.

In this case it seems Best Team Award is the same thing as the team with the best 3 individual riders and throw in a rider or 2 for a couple of break stages to ensure no major time loss there.

However, I'd also say based on a tweet by Rojas over the weekend, Movistar actually does target that award as they feel it's a great way to repay their helpers for their hard work during the GTs. Now the helpers on the team definitely did the best they could for whomever they were riding for.
 
Koronin said:
.

However, I'd also say based on a tweet by Rojas over the weekend, Movistar actually does target that award as they feel it's a great way to repay their helpers for their hard work during the GTs. Now the helpers on the team definitely did the best they could for whomever they were riding for.
Which one is more satisfying for a helper - and I mean rider like Imanol Erviti who doesn't have any capabilities to be there for the great GC positions.

One of Movistar riders winning Tour, not highly placed in teams' competition
or
No good GC position, winning teams' competition

I understand that at least some teams share their prize money quite equally with their riders but maybe Movistar isn't one of them.
 
Excellent
Ineos
Jumbo-Visma
Deceuninck - Quick-Step

Very good
Movistar
Bora-Hansgrohe
Lotto Soudal
Mitchelton-Scott

Good
Bahrain
Groupama-FDJ
EF Education First
AG2R La Mondiale
Team Arkéa Samsic

Poor
UAE-Team Emirates
Wanty-Gobert
Trek
Astana

Very Poor
Cofidis
Dimension Data
CCC
Sunweb

Abysmal
Direct Energie
Katusha-Alpecin

It's weird to say Movistar was "very good", but objectively a stage win, three top 10 places and the team classification is a very good result. However I'm not sure where they will go from here. For a low-budget team like Wanty "poor" is better than expected, but they still didn't win anything.
 
I think there were only 2 teams riding every day, Jumbo-Visma and Deceuninck Quickstep. Stage wins, whore the yellow jersey, played a big role in the GC and the only teams able to maintain two goals (GC & sprints). Ineos is definitely missing that stage win and dominance in the mountains. But they rode a smart race, very experienced in the way to 'bring it home'. But I wouldn't say excellent. Kwiatkowski and Moscon were just not at their best. Van Baarle surprised everybody, I think...
Lotto-Soudal did the best they could do. Bring Ewan to the wheels of Groenewegen/Sagan/Viviani and let him do the rest. Doing their turns in the break-aways, but they are a bit limited as a team. As bid Bora with Buchmann.

MS made the most of their failed GC attempt with Yates and switched to some nice stage wins. But only Trentin and Simon could be really relied on.
 
IMO I don't think Ineos were as powerful as previous seasons. Is that because other teams have stepped up or other reasons?

Why did Cummings even waste his time going to the Tour? DD clinging to hope of years gone by when he got into breaks? DD need a serious clear out and rethink for next season.
 
However, I'd also say based on a tweet by Rojas over the weekend, Movistar actually does target that award as they feel it's a great way to repay their helpers for their hard work during the GTs. Now the helpers on the team definitely did the best they could for whomever they were riding for.
That’s surely the most frustrating part of this Movistar team. The climbing cadre they had was clearly the strongest in the race, and when they put together a train or sent guys up the road, Soler and Amador especially were flying and put the hurt on teams. But then there would be Bala, Landa and Nairo left and none of them looked like they knew what to do next.

I think whatever about dividing up prize money, what domestiques would appreciate most would be if team leaders would acknowledge the effort being put in, by responded in a coordinated manner to try and win the bike race.
 
Another way to look at it (it's their profession after all):

Team Ineos 799.200 euro
Team Jumbo-Visma 203.400 euro
Deceuninck - Quickstep 189.940 euro
BORA hansgrohe 159.050 euro
Lotto-Soudal 134.760 euro
Movistar 132.470 euro
Trek - Segafredo 81.590 euro
Mitchelton-Scott 76.520 euro
Bahrain-Merida 71.890 euro
Groupama FDJ 60.200 euro
AG2R La Mondiale 55.140 euro
EF Education First 41.710 euro
Wanty Gobert 34.940 euro
Team Sunweb 31.210 euro
CCC 27.250 euro
Astana 24.250 euro
UAE Emirates 22.930 euro
Arkea - Samsic 22.800 euro
Cofidis 21.170 euro
Dimension Data 19.300 euro
Katusha Alpecin 18.220 euro
Total Direct Energie 17.760 euro
 
Leinster said:
However, I'd also say based on a tweet by Rojas over the weekend, Movistar actually does target that award as they feel it's a great way to repay their helpers for their hard work during the GTs. Now the helpers on the team definitely did the best they could for whomever they were riding for.
That’s surely the most frustrating part of this Movistar team. The climbing cadre they had was clearly the strongest in the race, and when they put together a train or sent guys up the road, Soler and Amador especially were flying and put the hurt on teams. But then there would be Bala, Landa and Nairo left and none of them looked like they knew what to do next.

I think whatever about dividing up prize money, what domestiques would appreciate most would be if team leaders would acknowledge the effort being put in, by responded in a coordinated manner to try and win the bike race.
Quite odd that Movistar wins the team award when tactically especially in the Tour they are all over the place.
 
Achieved vs expected.

HAPPY
Ineos
Jumbo-Visma
Deceuninck - Quick-Step
Bora-Hansgrohe
Lotto Soudal
Mitchelton-Scott

OK
Movistar
Bahrain
Groupama-FDJ

UNHAPPY
EF Education First
AG2R La Mondiale
Team Arkéa Samsic
UAE-Team Emirates
Wanty-Gobert
Trek
Astana
Cofidis
Dimension Data
CCC
Sunweb
Direct Energie
Katusha-Alpecin
 
Finn84 said:
Koronin said:
.

However, I'd also say based on a tweet by Rojas over the weekend, Movistar actually does target that award as they feel it's a great way to repay their helpers for their hard work during the GTs. Now the helpers on the team definitely did the best they could for whomever they were riding for.
Which one is more satisfying for a helper - and I mean rider like Imanol Erviti who doesn't have any capabilities to be there for the great GC positions.

One of Movistar riders winning Tour, not highly placed in teams' competition
or
No good GC position, winning teams' competition

I understand that at least some teams share their prize money quite equally with their riders but maybe Movistar isn't one of them.
Movistar is one, at least based on comments made when a few riders have been asked. I think maybe for some it's being able to stand on a podium in Paris. Basically you are asking do they want more money or would they prefer to be on the podium. It sounds like at least some of them would prefer to be on the podium in Paris vs the extra money from a teammate winning the Tour.
 
Koronin said:
However, I'd also say based on a tweet by Rojas over the weekend, Movistar actually does target that award as they feel it's a great way to repay their helpers for their hard work during the GTs. Now the helpers on the team definitely did the best they could for whomever they were riding for.
But then isn't it stepping over a dollar to get a nickel?
 
I disagree vehemently, violently and viciously with the notion that a 7th, 10th or 12th placing in the GC is enough to render a team's Tour "good", but especially when we're talking about a WT team whose leader has already been on the podium of a couple of GTs.
 
Cance>, 1st and 2nd on GC doesn't earn a spot in the top ranking? :eek: I hope that you are just being silly or hateful! :D

I like ranking by money won, but maybe the smaller the budget, the smaller the reward expected. Who's going to step up and give us a budget/money won ratio?

IMO:
Inios
D-Q
J-V/B-H (tie)

Cance>, come on...
 
Tonton said:
Koronin said:
However, I'd also say based on a tweet by Rojas over the weekend, Movistar actually does target that award as they feel it's a great way to repay their helpers for their hard work during the GTs. Now the helpers on the team definitely did the best they could for whomever they were riding for.
But then isn't it stepping over a dollar to get a nickel?

Maybe depends on how you look at it?
 
Dimension Data have been having a really poor run. It must be getting close to record breakingly low in the last two seasons. They only have c. 6 victories in each of the past two seasons, but I would hazard a guess that their CQ ranking score is at an unprecedented low level in 2018 and 2019.

If we look at the other teams that have done poorly in this Tour, there are mitigating circumstances. Injured leaders, bad luck, whatever. The depressing thing is that it is no surprise that Dimension Data have performed so poorly. They really are a poor team.
 
Re:

jmdirt said:
Cance>, 1st and 2nd on GC doesn't earn a spot in the top ranking? :eek: I hope that you are just being silly or hateful! :D

I like ranking by money won, but maybe the smaller the budget, the smaller the reward expected. Who's going to step up and give us a budget/money won ratio?

IMO:
Inios
D-Q
J-V/B-H (tie)

Cance>, come on...
Depends on whether we rate performances or only end results. Ineos was the clearest example of a team for which the end result heavily glossed over what was otherwise a notably below par perfomance from most of their riders. One could even count the 2nd place finisher among those underperforming. It helps massively too if you have two of the top 5 strongest riders in the race and your main rival gets hit with a freak injury on the crucial juncture.

As a complete opposite was Movistar, whose supporting cast was really up to the task, but was let down by occasional tactical blunders, leaders non-performance and probably some internal tensions between those leaders. If all things would have aligned perfectly, Landa possibly could have contended for podium, but at no point was he the best climber of the race. Quintana only had the legs for one stage win and Valverde was more in the supporting role with an eye on upcoming Vuelta and got into top ten by just hanging in there.

For me Deceuninck-Quickstep and Jumbo-Visma were the two standout teams in the Tour. After them Ineos and Lotto Soudal. Two teams who did some good work, but can only be disappointed with end results are FDJ and Movistar. Specially the former, because their lack of high overall place did come through no fault of their own.
 

KZD

Feb 21, 2019
299
16
560
I will do my analysis based on the objectives that the teams had set before the Tour and their budgets

Best teams: Lotto; Jumbo-Visma; Deucenick-QuickStep; Ineos; Mitchelton
Worst teams: Dimenson-Data; Katusha; CCC; Astana; Emirates; Total
 
Re: Re:

Põhja Konn said:
jmdirt said:
Cance>, 1st and 2nd on GC doesn't earn a spot in the top ranking? :eek: I hope that you are just being silly or hateful! :D

I like ranking by money won, but maybe the smaller the budget, the smaller the reward expected. Who's going to step up and give us a budget/money won ratio?

IMO:
Inios
D-Q
J-V/B-H (tie)

Cance>, come on...
Depends on whether we rate performances or only end results. Ineos was the clearest example of a team for which the end result heavily glossed over what was otherwise a notably below par perfomance from most of their riders. One could even count the 2nd place finisher among those underperforming. It helps massively too if you have two of the top 5 strongest riders in the race and your main rival gets hit with a freak injury on the crucial juncture.

As a complete opposite was Movistar, whose supporting cast was really up to the task, but was let down by occasional tactical blunders, leaders non-performance and probably some internal tensions between those leaders. If all things would have aligned perfectly, Landa possibly could have contended for podium, but at no point was he the best climber of the race. Quintana only had the legs for one stage win and Valverde was more in the supporting role with an eye on upcoming Vuelta and got into top ten by just hanging in there.

For me Deceuninck-Quickstep and Jumbo-Visma were the two standout teams in the Tour. After them Ineos and Lotto Soudal. Two teams who did some good work, but can only be disappointed with end results are FDJ and Movistar. Specially the former, because their lack of high overall place did come through no fault of their own.
The end result is all that matters. Plus, 1st and second is not below par.

Using Ineos as the example, their expectation was to win the TdF...they won the TdF. What else can they do? Go 1-2? They did that too.

Many people have been yelling for less Sky/Ineos domination and we got that...isn't that a good thing?
 

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