Team Visma LAB

Page 85 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Yay, long live the mutants.🙄

If watts2win is used as a yardstick, vingegaard improved by about 0,3w/kg during the giro for 35-40min efforts (from 6,4 to 6,7). One wonders if this this is genuine improvement a la riding into form, the infection effects wearing off, or a bag of new tricks.

But if this is not his peak, maybe he'll be semi-competitive in july.
 
meat puppet said:
Yay, long live the mutants.🙄

If watts2win is used as a yardstick, vingegaard improved by about 0,3w/kg during the giro for 35-40min efforts (from 6,4 to 6,7). One wonders if this this is genuine improvement a la riding into form, the infection effects wearing off, or a bag of new tricks.

But if this is not his peak, maybe he'll be semi-competitive in july.
Click to expand...
The bag of tricks is called 1. tailwind and 2. lower altitude.

He clearly got better, and he was cruising in the 3rd week, but it was not 0.3 W/kg better lol
 
Coppi-Bartali said:
Visma has won 12 of the last GT with 4 different riders. 12!!!. UAE has won 5, only with Pogacar.
8 more GT.

Ironically, the perception is that Visma isn't such a dominant team when it's clearly Sky's successor in Grand Tour. They've managed to win it with several riders, including Kuss, who only had a ninth-place finish in a Grand Tour (if it hadn't been gift the Vuelta to him, he would have finished third, considerably improving his previous best GC result), and Simon Yates, who seemed completely washed to win a GT when he signed for Visma.

Anyone would have bet that Ayuso or even Almeida would have won a Grand Tour before Kuss and a semi-retired Simon Yates. As soon as I read that Hindley was signing with them, I immediately considered him a possible winner of next year's Giro or Vuelta. That is, if they don't win the Vuelta this year with Jorgenson or Piganzoli.
Click to expand...

What's most "impressive" isn't that Kuss won the Vuelta. It's the fact that he competed in three GT that year. He helped Roglic win the Giro and Vingegaard win the Tour, before going on to win the Vuelta himself.

He didn't take the Giro and the Tour lightly and save his energy. He was in 6th place in the Tour even in the third week, and only dropped to 12th place at the end because riders behind him in the GC overtook him during a breakaway stage.
 
Coppi-Bartali said:
Visma has won 12 of the last GT with 4 different riders. 12!!!. UAE has won 5, only with Pogacar.
8 more GT.

Ironically, the perception is that Visma isn't such a dominant team when it's clearly Sky's successor in Grand Tour. They've managed to win it with several riders, including Kuss, who only had a ninth-place finish in a Grand Tour (if it hadn't been gift the Vuelta to him, he would have finished third, considerably improving his previous best GC result), and Simon Yates, who seemed completely washed to win a GT when he signed for Visma.

Anyone would have bet that Ayuso or even Almeida would have won a Grand Tour before Kuss and a semi-retired Simon Yates. As soon as I read that Hindley was signing with them, I immediately considered him a possible winner of next year's Giro or Vuelta. That is, if they don't win the Vuelta this year with Jorgenson or Piganzoli.
Click to expand...
The true cycling terrorists of this era without a doubt. Unfortunately, they've managed most of the hate they should've received due to factors well beyond cycling.
 
TheKidsCallMeBoss said:
He was in 6th place in the Tour even in the third week, and only dropped to 12th place at the end because riders behind him in the GC overtook him during a breakaway stage.
Click to expand...
He lost too much time on stage 17 then the crash on I think stage 20 was the major reason.
 
SHAD0W93 said:
He lost too much time on stage 17 then the crash on I think stage 20 was the major reason.
Click to expand...
He lost time against the break. Gall, Simon Yates and Bilbao overtook him because they were in the breakaway group. However, of those in the GC group, only Vingegaard, Adam Yates, Hindley and C-Rod beat him during that stage. He was stronger than Pogacar....
 
TheKidsCallMeBoss said:
He lost time against the break. Gall, Simon Yates and Bilbao overtook him because they were in the breakaway group. However, of those in the GC group, only Vingegaard, Adam Yates, Hindley and C-Rod beat him during that stage. He was stronger than Pogacar....
Click to expand...
Nothing I said was inaccurate. Kuss went from 6th to 9th and then diem to 12th due to his crash. Even if he didn’t lose the time on 17, he still drops out of the top 10 due to his crash. Then was stronger than Pogacar for a single stage.
 
Last edited:
SHAD0W93 said:
Nothing I said was inaccurate. Kuss went from 6th to 9th and then diem to 12th due to his crash. Even if he didn’t lose the time on 17, he still drops out of the top 10 due to his crash. Then was stronger than Pogacar for a single stage.
Click to expand...
I'm having trouble understanding your point or what you're trying to get at.

My point is that he was genuinely the 6th best rider in the Tour, despite being a domestique who had already completed the Giro + after the Tour, he went on to win the Vuelta.
 
I think the status of the thread will depend on whether this was the best Vingegaard had, if they have a rabbit to pull out of the hat, or if it's the usual Rabobank PR about him 'getting better in the 2nd GT'. He certainly looked like he was riding within himself on the last mountain stage.

2024 stunk to high heaven though, somehow managing to come back after a quite serious injury and substantial time off 3 months out. Just the aesthetic alone of him on San Luca(?) looking like he’d wandered out of the gulag yesterday and was told there’s food at the top of the climb. It was overshadowed a bit by the hilarity of Pogacar sprinting up HC climbs, but ridiculous all the same.

I wonder what changed between 2024 and 2025 such that they couldn't just repeat the same preparation, but without the injury/layoff. Instead they went with some weird puncheur gimmick and he wasn't quite as good on the longer climbs. Remember the entire team having a bizarre existential crisis on Col Du Soulor? I thought the CO2 thing was just clickbait at the time but given the uncharacteristic speed in which the UCI tried to get ahead of it maybe there was something to it in the end. Interesting times ahead.
 
Tim Cahill said:
I think the status of the thread will depend on whether this was the best Vingegaard had, if they have a rabbit to pull out of the hat, or if it's the usual Rabobank PR about him 'getting better in the 2nd GT'. He certainly looked like he was riding within himself on the last mountain stage.

2024 stunk to high heaven though, somehow managing to come back after a quite serious injury and substantial time off 3 months out. Just the aesthetic alone of him on San Luca(?) looking like he’d wandered out of the gulag yesterday and was told there’s food at the top of the climb. It was overshadowed a bit by the hilarity of Pogacar sprinting up HC climbs, but ridiculous all the same.

I wonder what changed between 2024 and 2025 such that they couldn't just repeat the same preparation, but without the injury/layoff. Instead they went with some weird puncheur gimmick and he wasn't quite as good on the longer climbs. Remember the entire team having a bizarre existential crisis on Col Du Soulor? I thought the CO2 thing was just clickbait at the time but given the uncharacteristic speed in which the UCI tried to get ahead of it maybe there was something to it in the end. Interesting times ahead.
Click to expand...
i dont see why the uci regulations on rebreathing should stop any team from what they were already doing before that -- no more than what the no needles policy stops them from

i think it was just mostly non clinic things that went wrong for them in 24 and 25 , van aert finally got really lucky in roubaix this year but is still far from the lvl he had before ( relatively at least )
 
TheKidsCallMeBoss said:
I'm having trouble understanding your point or what you're trying to get at.

My point is that he was genuinely the 6th best rider in the Tour, despite being a domestique who had already completed the Giro + after the Tour, he went on to win the Vuelta.
Click to expand...
You said Kuss went from 6th to 12th due to stage 17. The point is that Kuss didn’t drop out of the top 10 solely due to stage 17, it was due to his crash on stage 20. Then even the time loss on stage 17 didn’t happen the crash would still take him out of the top 10.

On your new point, yes he was and arguably top 5 if he was sole leader instead of supporting Vingegaard.
 
SHAD0W93 said:
On your new point, yes he was and arguably top 5 if he was sole leader instead of supporting Vingegaard.
Click to expand...
He could also have come close to the podium, as he would probably have been in the breakaway with Gall and the others on the Col de la Loze stage. He would also have had a good chance of winning that stage. While Giro was already in his legs + riding even stronger at the Vuelta.
 
Of the last 10 Grand Tours, they've won 7, a 70% . And what's most striking is that they've done it with 4 different riders. That's something only Sky has managed (Wiggins, Froome, G. Thomas, Bernal, TAO).

The thing is, Visma gets better press; it's a Dutch team, they have Van Aert, and it's easier to point the finger at others and less at them. But these dominant teams like US Postal and Sky were known for dominating Grand Tours with multiple riders. And that's what Visma is doing.

The importance of the narrative. Visma is talked about as the antidote to Pogacar, when without Pogacar Visma would have taken practically all the GT since Sky era.
 
Last edited:
Coppi-Bartali said:
Of the last 10 Grand Tours, they've won 7, a 70% . And what's most striking is that they've done it with 4 different riders. That's something only Sky has managed (Wiggins, Froome, G. Thomas, Bernal, TAO).
Click to expand...

6 out of 10. They won nothing in 2024 and last year lost the Tour.
 
Krzysztof_O said:
6 out of 10. They won nothing in 2024 and last year lost the Tour.
Click to expand...
Quite a few things happened to them in late 2023 and 2024.

- several of their top riders were involved in serious crashes, causing them to miss big races
- they lost Roglic as well
- they were given a slap on the wrist when Hessmann failed the doping test
- after the van Hooydonck thing, I think they toned down the whole program a bit.
 
theyoungest said:
Niermann could just have stayed quiet. He wasn't caught. Instead he chose to be honest. I think that's commendable. There's a lot of guys from his generation working in pro cycling, but Niermann is known as the former doper... that's what I find a bit ironic, and quite counterproductive to what these cycling fans supposedly want: transparency.
Click to expand...

Quoting you here.

The people to pretend their heroes are cleanzzzz.

Transparency is a disgrace if you do it. And if you get caught, you were a disgrace for not being transparent.
 
Coppi-Bartali said:
Of the last 10 Grand Tours, they've won 7, a 70% . And what's most striking is that they've done it with 4 different riders. That's something only Sky has managed (Wiggins, Froome, G. Thomas, Bernal, TAO).

The thing is, Visma gets better press; it's a Dutch team, they have Van Aert, and it's easier to point the finger at others and less at them. But these dominant teams like US Postal and Sky were known for dominating Grand Tours with multiple riders. And that's what Visma is doing.

The importance of the narrative. Visma is talked about as the antidote to Pogacar, when without Pogacar Visma would have taken practically all the GT since Sky era.
Click to expand...
Leave Wiggins out of that because then you're working over an eight year period. Froome's last GT win being the 2018 Giro means Sky won with 4 different riders across three years, including Wiggins when his last (only) win is so far removed from the first win by anybody other than Froome.

Otherwise we may as well point out that Abarcá have wins with Delgado, Indurain, Olano, Pereiro, Valverde, Quintana and Carapaz therefore have more, but that's spread over more than 30 years and not comparable.

This also means that if Movistar don't win a Grand Tour by next year's Giro they will be in their longest drought of three week races since their very first triumph in 1988, and if they don't win one by the following year's Giro they'll have gone their longest ever period without one. And if Ángel Arroyo had finished a couple of plces lower in the Navacerrada stage in 1982, it would already be their longest drought.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
Leave Wiggins out of that because then you're working over an eight year period. Froome's last GT win being the 2018 Giro means Sky won with 4 different riders across three years, including Wiggins when his last (only) win is so far removed from the first win by anybody other than Froome.

Otherwise we may as well point out that Abarcá have wins with Delgado, Indurain, Olano, Pereiro, Valverde, Quintana and Carapaz therefore have more, but that's spread over more than 30 years and not comparable.

This also means that if Movistar don't win a Grand Tour by next year's Giro they will be in their longest drought of three week races since their very first triumph in 1988, and if they don't win one by the following year's Giro they'll have gone their longest ever period without one. And if Ángel Arroyo had finished a couple of plces lower in the Navacerrada stage in 1982, it would already be their longest drought.
Click to expand...
Visma Rabobank
 
Good performance, no matter what riders they have. They are all flying.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page

Back
Top