Teams taking care of their riders... Or not?

Jul 21, 2010
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In this article Breschel mentions that he's accepted a less good paycheck at SBTB: http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/breschel-ned-i-loen-for-riis

He states that the reason behind this (as opposed to staying at Rabobank, and getting more money) is that SBTB guides their riders on diet/nutrition, training, and that there is more communication between the riders and the management.


Which leads to my question... Why is it that some of the big budget teams (e.g. BMC, where I seem to recall that riders are pretty much left on their own to train, eat, build up etc.) do not focus on the individual rider? And furthermore, which of the pro tour teams are known for this, and which are known for nurturing their riders?

It seems a bit weird that they would not all emphasize correct training methods, diet and communication. Simply as a way to be sure that all their riders are in top shape.
 
Opalius said:
Which leads to my question... Why is it that some of the big budget teams (e.g. BMC, where I seem to recall that riders are pretty much left on their own to train, eat, build up etc.) do not focus on the individual rider? And furthermore, which of the pro tour teams are known for this, and which are known for nurturing their riders?
It's very peculiar. Kristoff said that he had no sort of follow-up at BMC, except that they told him to lose weight. They didn't tell him how and they didn't supervise his training program. At Katusha, he says he's getting a lot more support in terms of training, nutrition etc and it has obviously resulted in a great improvement.

When you look at how unprofessional some of those teams are, it's not really surprising that Sky dominate like they do.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Some riders need the team dictating their every move, some riders don't like that. Rabobank has traditionally had riders like Menchov and Freire who belong to the latter category. I think part of the reason for their new management structure is more direct coaching for the riders, because obviously for the new generation of riders the loose approach doesn't work.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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maltiv said:
It's very peculiar. Kristoff said that he had no sort of follow-up at BMC, except that they told him to lose weight. They didn't tell him how and they didn't supervise his training program. At Katusha, he says he's getting a lot more support in terms of training, nutrition etc and it has obviously resulted in a great improvement.

When you look at how unprofessional some of those teams are, it's not really surprising that Sky dominate like they do.
That's because they didn't care about AK.

Anyway, it's not like you need a team to babysit you to get good results:

Velo Magazine: Do you have the feeling of being and old style rider?
Philippe Gilbert: "No, then I would not get any result. But it is true that I train mostly
by feeling. In the team, we have Powertap but I do not use it. I do not even have a heart rate monitor, but I always know where I am. I never analyze my training with the computer or graphics. I have not the clue about how many watts I produce in a climb. That is
totally unimportant. What you have to check is how fast you are moving, and the difference you do in relation to other."

(2011)

Anyway Gilbert mostly trains in the Alpes-Maritimes. Sometimes he rides hard and sometimes he takes it easy. He finishes his training usually on the Col d'Eze. Other cols he frequently trains on are the Col de Vence. Col de la Madone, the training climb of Lance Armstrong back when he lived in Monaco, is also a good place for training. He also frequently does training rides to San Remo, but Italian roads are quite busy, so it's not always pleasant to train there. He rides usually in the company of friends who aren't professional cyclists. After a while they have to let him go obviously, so then he rides alone. His training approach is completely different than Evans' training approach, that's what he says at least. But it works for Phil and Evans' training approach works best for him. You can't have one training approach for a whole team. You also can't expect a team to invest as much time in the small fish as they do with the big fish.

As for the reason why Sky dominates it's because Alberto Contador, Andy Schleck, Samuel Sanchez, Tony Martin and Fabian Cancellara had a lot of bad luck this season. They suck tactically and that's a big reason why they have never won a classic. Sky also dominate because they have a big budget and can buy good riders like Mark Cavendish, Edvald Boasson Hagen, Bradley Wiggins, Flecha, Michael Rogers, Richie Porte, etc.

They didn't develop any of those riders. The only one they "developed" was Chris Froome, but that story is bogus. They were about to let him to at the end of 2011, he had a verbal agreement with Lampre. And then all of a sudden he's the second best GT rider of his generation. Yeah, no doubt because of Sky's training approach. :rolleyes: If they had faith in him they wouldn't have let him go at the end of 2011... They lucked out there.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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And what have BMC won this year? ;)

Kristoff got a bronze medal at the Olympics. The Olympics had hills. When he was still on BMC he would have been dropped on the first passage of Box Hill.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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theyoungest said:
And what have BMC won this year? ;)

Kristoff got a bronze medal at the Olympics. The Olympics had hills. When he was still on BMC he would have been dropped on the first passage of Box Hill.
Lol, he got in a large breakaway. His bronze medal isn't really impressive. Plus he rode for the Norwegian team, not for Katusha. ;)

Last year they won the Tour de France, Tirreno-Adriatico, Tour de Romandie and Paris-Tours.

This year they won 2 Giro stages and wore the pink jersey for a few days, they won the white jersey in the Tour de France with 2 people in the top 10 and won 3 Vuelta stages. And now they got second in the WC TTT. They got off to a rocky start, but things are looking good now. Alessandro Ballan, Tejay van Gardenen, Philippe Gilbert and Greg van Avermaet will be ready for the Italian classics and Paris-Tours.

If Phil was Dutch you'd be blaming BMC for his abysmal year, but I'm not like that. It's his own fault.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Obviously when I say he would have been dropped on the first hill, I mean that at Katusha his level has improved immeasurably. And that's what this thread is about, how with a more personal approach some teams can make riders better, whereas others can't.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Too bad most riders want out of Katusha as soon as possible.

If AK has improved this year then he's a waste of investment. He's won 2 small races this year.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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I know you don't like criticism of semi-Belgian team BMC, but it's pretty clear TGAK has improved at Katusha, whereas at BMC he simply sucked. And apparently this has been because of a more personal approach.

What's so hard to understand about that? BMC apparently are a more traditional team, leaving riders to their own resources.
 
theyoungest said:
And what have BMC won this year? ;)

Kristoff got a bronze medal at the Olympics. The Olympics had hills. When he was still on BMC he would have been dropped on the first passage of Box Hill.
El Pistolero said:
Lol, he got in a large breakaway.
Haha what great logic. A rider who would get dropped by the peloton going up a hill should have no problem getting over the hill when in a breakaway that is going faster.:rolleyes:

His bronze medal isn't really impressive.
The fact that you couldnt press " post" without throwing that in there suggests heavily that you are jealous. Not.necessarily for yourself but for boonen and Gilbert. Like Armstrong after sastre won the tour- wah wah wah a rider i consider inferior succeeds- starts throwing toys out of pram.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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theyoungest said:
I know you don't like criticism of semi-Belgian team BMC, but it's pretty clear TGAK has improved at Katusha, whereas at BMC he simply sucked. And apparently this has been because of a more personal approach.

What's so hard to understand about that? BMC apparently are a more traditional team, leaving riders to their own resources.
Because he's a bad example.

This year he got a lot of CQ points because of the Olympics, which only take place once every four years. Third place almost gives as much points as a Monument victory. And as you know, guys like Alessandro Ballan aren't even allowed to go to the Olympics or WC. ;)

He's also still a young rider, so it's not that odd to see him improve as he matures... At a slow rate.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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El Pistolero said:
This year they won 2 Giro stages and wore the pink jersey for a few days, they won the white jersey in the Tour de France with 2 people in the top 10 and won 3 Vuelta stages. And now they got second in the WC TTT.
But given what the OP states is it not possible that they would have done (even) better with a more hands on approach.

Also, I do wonder why you always have to try and denigrate riders just because they are not Boonen, Gilbert or Contador?
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Don't be late Pedro said:
But given what the OP states is it not possible that they would have done (even) better with a more hands on approach.

Also, I do wonder why you always have to try and denigrate riders just because they are not Boonen, Gilbert or Contador?
Who am I denigrating?

Alexander Kristoff isn't having a spectacular year, that's all.
 
El Pistolero said:
Because he's a bad example.

This year he got a lot of CQ points because of the Olympics, which only take place once every four years. Third place almost gives as much points as a Monument victory. And as you know, guys like Alessandro Ballan aren't even allowed to go to the Olympics or WC. ;)

He's also still a young rider, so it's not that odd to see him improve as he matures... At a slow rate.
He got 200 points at the Olympics. Even if you eliminate them (and I have no idea why you'd do that), he still comes out with 725 points, which is a very significant improvement over last season.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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The Hitch said:
Haha what great logic. A rider who would get dropped by the peloton going up a hill should have no problem getting over the hill when in a breakaway that is going faster.:rolleyes:



The fact that you couldnt press " post" without throwing that in there suggests heavily that you are jealous. Not.necessarily for yourself but for boonen and Gilbert. Like Armstrong after sastre won the tour- wah wah wah a rider i consider inferior succeeds- starts throwing toys out of pram.
They were going slow on Box Hill. Why should I be impressed by his bronze medal? If he can get a bronze medal at a Monument I might be more impressed. Everybody knows it was luck and tactics that decided the Olympics.

A large breakaway escaped from 4 guys who were working in the peloton all day.

Wasn't Armstrong proven right in 2009? Of course back then Armstrong was ****ed Bruyneel's team wasn't allowed at the Tour and that's why he made that comment.
 
hrotha said:
He got 200 points at the Olympics. Even if you eliminate them (and I have no idea why you'd do that), he still comes out with 725 points, which is a very significant improvement over last season.
In otherwords even without the Olympics he still ranks higher than Gilbert.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Rodriguez also ranks higher than Boonen. But I know which palmares I'd rather have. ;)

How much does CQranking pay you guys to keep advertising it by the way?

Who's to say AK didn't improve because he's one year older?
 
Feb 17, 2012
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El Pistolero said:
This year they won 2 Giro stages and wore the pink jersey for a few days, they won the white jersey in the Tour de France with 2 people in the top 10 and won 3 Vuelta stages. And now they got second in the WC TTT. They got off to a rocky start, but things are looking good now.
You reaaaally had to dig deep there to find anything remotely noteworthy there, eh.. "Rocky start" - really? 'rocky'?

You have no problem calling a bronze in the Olympics for 'not impressive' and his two wins for 'nothing good' while you dig up white jerseys, TTT's and top ten results for BMC as good.

Amusing.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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DominicDecoco said:
You reaaaally had to dig deep there to find anything remotely noteworthy there, eh.. "Rocky start" - really? 'rocky'?

You have no problem calling a bronze in the Olympics for 'not impressive' and his two wins for 'nothing good' while you dig up white jerseys, TTT's and top ten results for BMC as good.

Amusing.
Yes, TVG's Tour was more impressive than AK's bronze medal at the Olympics.

The breakaway included the likes of Beppu and Andrij Grivko.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Sylvester said:
Absolutely!

The Tour, however, included the likes of Joan Horrach, Albert Timmer and Bernie Eisel.
Sorry, didn't realize they finished in the same time as TVG. ;)

Also you shouldn't take interviews like that seriously anyway. A cyclist is not going to criticize his team where he still has a contract. :rolleyes:
Too bad no one told that to Jakob Fuglsang.

Breschel's season is over and now he all of a sudden finds the courage to give compliments to Riis and diss Rabobank. Hilarious. And when he performs well next season we'll all say it's because of Riis while in reality it's because he was able to ride an injury free season. But keep up the charade.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
Well, this potentially interesting thread has been destroyed by some classic el trolling.
You surely have enough threads to gloat about Sky's superior approach of marginal gains.
 

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