The Basso-Nibali found Brotherhood?

[hfer07]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/basso-looking-to-bounce-back-after-poor-tour-de-france

Going back a couple months ago when we were debating Nibali's ability to handle Contador,-at the same time many were praising Basso's 2010 Giro as an unique/ Individual achievement, disregarding/diminishing all the efforts that Vincenzo put on the road to secure the title for Ivan- yet is himself now who is pledging to form this "brotherhood", in order to conquer the mayor races. his argument is valid to a certain level, where he acknowledges that age isn't making things easier & foresee "the shark" as "the future of Italian cycling" - but at the same time I wonder how much Nibali is willing to buy into this Idea of letting Basso "call the shots", when he has proved himself & the world that his time to take over the reigns of Liquigas has come-IAW-Vincenzo can surely decide by now if the Tour is his main goal & have Basso left with the rest of the season to pick a race of his liking instead.....

Please opine

 

[Midnightfright]

Hard one too call. Both guys have decent arguments if they were wanting to claim outright leadership. Depends on both guys goals maybe they fit well and don't overlap too much otherwise I guess it comes down to the DS choice. How do u think each would of faired if they swapped GTs this year?

 

[hfer07]

Hard one too call. Both guys have decent arguments if they were wanting to claim outright leadership. Depends on both guys goals maybe they fit well and don't overlap too much otherwise I guess it comes down to the DS choice. How do u think each would of faired if they swapped GTs this year?

I'd say Nibali is ready to have a good shot at the Tour podium, & postpone the Giro-Basso can very well win the Vuelta with the right preparation & support

 

[Midnightfright]

I'd say Nibali is ready to have a good shot at the Tour podium, & postpone the Giro-Basso can very well win the Vuelta with the right preparation & support

I think that Nibali could of atleast matched Basso tour result. I suspect Basso could of matched Nibalis Giro result aswell though.

 

[Angliru]

I think it's maybe one year too early to be calling it a career on Basso considering the obstacles he was confronted with this year. Nibali has shown that he can win grand tours, just not the Tour yet. Basso since his return has shown the same. How much we can anticipate Nibali improving remains to be seen but what will really decide is the road. I wouldn't have either of them riding for the other in any grand tour for next year. If they're both at the Giro or the Tour let the road decide who is to be the leader. It's an arrangement that has worked for some in the past and failed miserably for others but the bottomline is that if either of them has the stuff to win they will show it in all eventuality. Only if they are both in agreement on what their goals are and they aren't in conflict should one work for the other from the beginning of a grand tour. That is my hastily typed, convoluted answer.

 

[Midnightfright]

I think it's maybe one year too early to be calling it a career on Basso considering the obstacles he was confronted with this year. Nibali has shown that he can win grand tours, just not the Tour yet. Basso since his return has shown the same. How much we can anticipate Nibali improving remains to be seen but what will really decide is the road. I wouldn't have either of them riding for the other in any grand tour for next year. If they're both at the Giro or the Tour let the road decide who is to be the leader. It's an arrangement that has worked for some in the past and failed miserably for others but the bottomline is that if either of them has the stuff to win they will show it in all eventuality. Only if they are both in agreement on what their goals are and they aren't in conflict should one work for the other from the beginning of a grand tour. That is my hastily typed, convoluted answer.

Pretty much what I think as well . They seem happy to be on the same team so there needn't be w problem just yet.

 

[hfer07]

I think that Nibali could of atleast matched Basso tour result. I suspect Basso could of matched Nibalis Giro result aswell though.

well- in 09 Vincenzo was 7th- Basso got 8th this year- and yes- I'm considering his crash in June-all I say is that Basso is looking to get a better TDF result at the expense of Nibali's help-but based on current development- I see Nibali being better suited to the TDF than Ivan TBH- since the french GC has less Mountain passes than the Giro.

 

[saganftw]

i d say they will do 2012 same as this year - nibali giro/vuelta,basso last shot at TdF,he ll be 35 and he seems to be smart enough to judge his abilities

after that who knows,basso could be superdomestique for nibali in TdF and possibly ride vuelta or giro for his own result

 

[cineteq]

after that who knows,basso could be superdomestique for nibali in TdF and possibly ride vuelta or giro for his own result

Looking forward to Nibali riding TdF next year as leader, it's about time! Basso got his chance, and didn't work out, he's better suited for Giro & Vuelta anyway, mentally that is.

 

[ferryman]

Looking forward to Nibali riding TdF next year as leader, it's about time! Basso got his chance, and didn't work out, he's better suited for Giro & Vuelta anyway, mentally that is.

I'm not so sure about that. Basso had a remarkably good TDF given the horrible crash he had on the volcano. I also found his comments very refreshing and totally not disingenous. Class act is our Ivan.

 

[hfer07]

I think it's maybe one year too early to be calling it a career on Basso considering the obstacles he was confronted with this year.

blame it on CN for doing the article

I wouldn't have either of them riding for the other in any grand tour for next year.

+100 agreed

If they're both at the Giro or the Tour let the road decide who is to be the leader. It's an arrangement that has worked for some in the past and failed miserably for others but the bottom line is that if either of them has the stuff to win they will show it in all eventuality. Only if they are both in agreement on what their goals are and they aren't in conflict should one work for the other from the beginning of a grand tour. That is my hastily typed, convoluted answer.

I believe they seem to be straight forward with each other on individual goals-as proved in the 2010 Giro, when Nibali wearing the Maglia Rosa helped Basso in the Montalcino stage-which clearly unvailed who was riding for who after all. I think my concern is about hierarchy among the ranks nowadays, since Vincenzo is more likely to inherit the duty while Ivan begins to fade....

 

[Ragerod]

Basso's comments are clearly a response to how beneficiary having two contenders worked for the Schlecks in the Alps.

I doubt Nibali will be interested in doing the Vuelta again next year and his plan was always to win the Vuelta, win the Giro, retain the Vuelta and then win the Tour in 2012. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he rides the Giro next year and then supports Basso in the TDF.

 

[jacko_69]

Not sure I see mimicking the schleck brothers is the greatest of strategies... but sure, having guys like Nibali or Basso working for each other using the right strategy ie Giro 2010 can work really well.

Which ever rider is the one that's targeting the Tour may not want to commit to working as a super-domestique in the Giro as it's a massive gamble on how it will impact their Tour form. Bottom line is I don't think either Basso or Nibali should do the Giro if they want to compete with the guys who solely target the Tour. Working together at the Vuelta is certainly on the cards.

 

[whittashau]

I personally think the tdf's typical parcours would suit Nibali's characteristics more than Basso's, especially this years with all the downhill parts which Evans in particular took advantage of.

 

[taiwan]

I agree that depending on the parcours on the individual year, Basso is going more suited to the Giro, and Nibali to the Tour. The TTing and the fact that Basso was able to take time on the Zoncolan.

Nibali was super strong in 2010, and Basso benefitted a lot from his help at the Giro.

I'd have said it would be a Good idea for VN to work for IB at the Giro, then swap for the Tour, but then neither of them would be fit for the TDF. If they want the Tour, maybe they could look at riding the Giro for stage wins only, or going for the points jersey with Sagan. Then they could take their effective '10 Giro approach to the Grand Boucle. Podium could be their limit whatever they do at the Tour though. If Contador goes in in shape, they won't do anything to him.

 

[movingtarget]

I agree that depending on the parcours on the individual year, Basso is going more suited to the Giro, and Nibali to the Tour. The TTing and the fact that Basso was able to take time on the Zoncolan.

Nibali was super strong in 2010, and Basso benefitted a lot from his help at the Giro.

I'd have said it would be a Good idea for VN to work for IB at the Giro, then swap for the Tour, but then neither of them would be fit for the TDF. If they want the Tour, maybe they could look at riding the Giro for stage wins only, or going for the points jersey with Sagan. Then they could take their effective '10 Giro approach to the Grand Boucle. Podium could be their limit whatever they do at the Tour though. If Contador goes in in shape, they won't do anything to him.

I can't see them targeting the same race or riding both races. Losing Kreuziger and Kiserlovski was a blow for them and Syszmd won't ride both races. I thought the team was ordinary in the TDF as was Contador's team. Both teams are nowhere near as good as they were last year. Maybe some new blood needed. I don't think Contador will beat up the opposition in the 2012 TDF because I have a feeling it won't be a very mountainous route. I doubt he will get another route like the 2011 Giro. He deserves to be favourite but I don't expect him to dominate the race like he did in the Giro. TDF anniversary is 2013 and I think that is the year they will have a really mountainous route. I think the time trials will be critical once again.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

With Basso and Nibali, there is that old adage of, "can't live with em, can't live without em." The only way this Italian brotherhood will be effective is at the Vuelta; I don't see this dynamic working at the Giro or Tour.

but maybe I'm just sick of seeing their Sidi commercial on Eurosport...

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

With Basso and Nibali, there is that old adage of, "can't live with em, can't live without em." The only way this Italian brotherhood will be effective is at the Vuelta; I don't see this dynamic working at the Giro or Tour.

It already worked in the Giro, and Nibali has demonstrated again in Poland that he's willing to work for other people even now that he's joined the Grand Tour club. But, I think that you are broadly speaking right. Riding both the Giro and the Tour hard places enormous strains on a rider, and really from a tatical point of view if you have two Grand Tour winners in your squad, you want one to ride the Giro and one to ride the Tour, no matter how fraternal their relationship is.

(Unless you are on a team that doesn't care about the Giro in the first place, but that's hardly applicable to an Italian team).

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

It already worked in the Giro, and Nibali has demonstrated again in Poland that he's willing to work for other people even now that he's joined the Grand Tour club. But, I think that you are broadly speaking right. Riding both the Giro and the Tour hard places enormous strains on a rider, and really from a tatical point of view if you have two Grand Tour winners in your squad, you want one to ride the Giro and one to ride the Tour, no matter how fraternal their relationship is.

(Unless you are on a team that doesn't care about the Giro in the first place, but that's hardly applicable to an Italian team).

I was. In order for one to win (either Tour or Giro), I think the other will have to be present, but that will decrease the other's chances of success. With the Giro and Tour only separated by a month, I don't think they can switch off like that. Certainly, the Giro/Vuelta switcheroo.

I've said this before that Nibali could have won the Tour this year, if he had focused his prep on that race, and Basso worked for him (given his form), but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Midnightfright]

I was. In order for one to win (either Tour or Giro), I think the other will have to be present, but that will decrease the other's chances of success. With the Giro and Tour only separated by a month, I don't think they can switch off like that. Certainly, the Giro/Vuelta switcheroo.

I've said this before that Nibali could have won the Tour this year, if he had focused his prep on that race, and Basso worked for him (given his form), but hindsight is 20/20.

I really believe he would of podiumed but don't think he would off made enough if any time on Cadel in the mountains to make up for the TT Cadel put in.

 

[Forunculo]

Basso is showing white flag and pass the antorch to Nibali

 

[cineteq]

I've said this before that Nibali could have won the Tour this year, if he had focused his prep on that race, and Basso worked for him (given his form), but hindsight is 20/20.

Sorry but not this year. He could've been in contention for a podium spot, maybe. But I'love to see him next year in TdF with a healthy team.

 

[movingtarget]

Sorry but not this year. He could've been in contention for a podium spot, maybe. But I'love to see him next year in TdF with a healthy team.

Yes, Evans was very strong this year. Podium was posible for Nibali. He is a very talented rider and good to watch. His inconsistency on the climbs cost him in the Giro but there is plenty of time for improvement.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I really believe he would of podiumed but don't think he would off made enough if any time on Cadel in the mountains to make up for the TT Cadel put in.

Sorry but not this year. He could've been in contention for a podium spot, maybe. But I'love to see him next year in TdF with a healthy team.

Given the decent laden parcours, it was suited to Nibali. True, he wouldn't have made any significant time in the mountains to compete with Cadel's beast of a TT, but I can't help but wonder if his prep was geared entirely toward the Tour. He definately would have had more help in the mountains with Basso and Szmyd, and we know the decents alone would have knoecked a Schleck off a podium.

 

[maxmartin]

Ac is focusing on 2012 Tour, i just don't think any one can beat him right now if AC is on form

Basso's comments are clearly a response to how beneficiary having two contenders worked for the Schlecks in the Alps.

I doubt Nibali will be interested in doing the Vuelta again next year and his plan was always to win the Vuelta, win the Giro, retain the Vuelta and then win the Tour in 2012. However, I wouldn't be surprised if he rides the Giro next year and then supports Basso in the TDF.