the Blood Beggers

Apr 20, 2012
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Who are they? More importantly: who weren't.

After the EPo test of 2000 the peloton nutters switched back to oldskool blooddoping. Of course more sophisticated than the to be rumoured blooddoper Lasse Viren, but hey, blood is blood.

It is mentioned some/a lot of riders didnt/didnt want to participate in these practises, just like in the nineties where some riders didnt want to use epo and subsequently were forced out of the sport.

Is there a measurement stick for these riders? Can we use statistics?

2000:
Giro d'Italia
1 ITA Stefano Garzelli ITA in 98h 30m 14s
2 ITA Francesco Casagrande ITA at 01m 27s
3 ITA Gilberto Simoni ITA at 01m 33s
4 ITA Andrea Noè ITA at 04m 58s
5 RUS Pavel Tonkov RUS at 05m 28s
6 COL Hernán Buenahora Gutierrez COL at 05m 48s
7 ITA Wladimir Belli ITA at 07m 38s
8 ESP José-Luis Rubiera Vigil ESP at 08m 08s
9 UKR Serhiy Honchar UKR at 08m 14s
10 ITA Leonardo Piepoli ITA at 08m 32s
11 ESP Santiago Blanco Gil ESP at 12m 11s
12 ITA Paolo Lanfranchi ITA at 16m 26s
13 ITA Dario Frigo ITA at 20m 49s
14 CZE Jan Hruška CZE at 23m 21s
15 COL Victor Hugo Peña Grisales COL at 23m 30s
16 ESP Oscar Sevilla Ribera ESP at 24m 09s
17 USA William Chann McRae USA at 27m 11s
18 COL José Joaquim Castelblanco Romero COL at 28m 55s
19 ITA Ivan Gotti ITA at 30m 10s
20 ESP Francisco Mancebo Perez ESP at 31m

With the exception of Santiago Blanco we can be pretty certain of this top 20 being EPO-fuelled.

2001:
Giro d'Italia

1 ITA Gilberto Simoni ITA in 89h 02m 58s
2 ESP Abraham Olano Manzano ESP at 07m 31s
3 ESP Unai Osa Eizaguirre ESP at 08m 37s
4 UKR Serhiy Honchar UKR at 09m 25s
5 POR José Bento Azevedo Carvalho POR at 09m 44s
6 ITA Andrea Noè ITA at 10m 50s
7 ITA Ivan Gotti ITA at 10m 54s
8 COL Carlos Alberto Contreras Caño COL at 11m 44s
9 ITA Pietro Caucchioli ITA at 13m 34s
10 ITA Giuliano Figueras ITA at 14m 08s
11 ITA Marco Velo ITA at 14m 34s
12 AUT Peter Luttenberger AUT at 15m 36s
13 COL Hernán Buenahora Gutierrez COL at 16m 22s
14 ITA Paolo Savoldelli ITA at 18m 42s
15 COL José Joaquim Castelblanco Romero COL at 23m 02s
16 ITA Marzio Bruseghin ITA at 25m 13s
17 ITA Mauro Zanetti ITA at 27m 16s
18 ITA Marco Magnani ITA at 33m 04s
19 ITA Gianni Faresin ITA at 33m 14s
20 ESP Juan Manuel Garate Cepa ESP at 33m 24s

Compare this GC with 2000 and what do we see?
No Garzelli, no Casagrande, both DNF.
We see Andrea Noe still in the top 10.
We see Sergei Honchar still in the top 10.
We see Ivan Gotti bettering his 2000 Giro.
We see Hernan Buenahora still there.
We see Lanfranchi way back in GC, perhaps more domestique duties.
We saw Dario Frigo leave his hotelroom for a six months vacation.
We see José Joaquim Castelblanco Romero still in the top 20.
We see Il Falco having a much better 2001 Giro than his 2000 one.

Who are the newcomers?
Abraham Olano Manzano, EPO user
Unai Osa Eizaguirre, an identified Fuentes client.
José Bento Azevedo Carvalho, doesnt need introduction. Never tested positive.
Carlos Alberto Contreras Caño, a mystery to me, Kelme rider.
Pietro Caucchioli, one of the first biopass fellas.
Giuliano Figueras, blitz raid suspendee, winner of THE epo worldchampionships in 1996.
Marco Velo, no GC rider, how did he get there? Mercatone Uno.
Peter Luttenberger, former epo wonder.
Marzio Bruseghin, Micera worked better for him.

2002:
Giro d'Italia
1 ITA Paolo Savoldelli ITA in 89h 22m 42s
2 USA Tyler Hamilton USA at 01m 41s
3 ITA Pietro Caucchioli ITA at 02m 12s
4 ESP Juan Manuel Garate Cepa ESP at 03m 14s
5 RUS Pavel Tonkov RUS at 05m 34s
6 ESP Aitor Gonzalez Jimenez ESP at 06m 54s
7 AUT Georg Totschnig AUT at 07m 02s
8 ESP Fernando Escartin Coti ESP at 07m 07s
9 BEL Rik Verbrugghe BEL at 09m 36s
10 ITA Dario Frigo ITA at 11m 50s
11 ESP Oscar Pereiro Sio ESP at 12m 49s
12 UKR Yaroslav Popovych UKR at 14m 50s
13 ITA Ivan Gotti ITA at 15m 17s
14 AUS Cadel Evans AUS at 16m 25s
15 ITA Eddy Mazzoleni ITA at 17m 23s
16 ITA Franco Pellizotti ITA at 17m 32s
17 NED Michael Boogerd NED at 19m 28s
18 ITA Michele Scarponi ITA at 22m 04s
19 MEX Julio Alberto Perez Cuapio MEX at 22m 15s
20 ITA Andrea Noè ITA at 23m 54s

The echoe positives of Garzelli and Simoni I believe.

2003:
Giro d'Italia
1 ITA Gilberto Simoni ITA in 89h 32m 09s
2 ITA Stefano Garzelli ITA at 07m 06s
3 UKR Yaroslav Popovych UKR at 07m 11s
4 ITA Andrea Noè ITA at 09m 24s
5 AUT Georg Totschnig AUT at 09m 42s
6 LTU Raimondas Rumsas LTU at 09m 50s
7 ITA Dario Frigo ITA at 10m 50s
8 UKR Serhiy Honchar UKR at 14m 14s
9 ITA Franco Pellizotti ITA at 14m 26s
10 ITA Eddy Mazzoleni ITA at 19m 21s
11 ITA Wladimir Belli ITA at 19m 41s
12 POL Dariusz Baranowski POL at 22m 54s
13 FRA Sandy Casar FRA at 24m 50s
14 ITA Marco Pantani ITA at 26m 15s
15 ITA Massimo Codol ITA at 28m 17s
16 ITA Michele Scarponi ITA at 29m 24s
17 ITA Gianni Faresin ITA at 34m 47s
18 ESP Adolfo Garcia Quesada ESP at 41m 21s
19 ESP Aitor Gonzalez Jimenez ESP at 41m 29s
20 ITA Paolo Lanfranchi ITA at 43m 57s

2004:
Giro d'Italia
1 ITA Damiano Cunego ITA in 88h 40m 43s
2 UKR Serhiy Honchar UKR at 02m 02s
3 ITA Gilberto Simoni ITA at 02m 05s
4 ITA Dario David Cioni ITA at 04m 36s
5 UKR Yaroslav Popovych UKR at 05m 05s
6 ITA Stefano Garzelli ITA at 05m 31s
7 ITA Wladimir Belli ITA at 06m 12s
8 AUS Bradley McGee AUS at 06m 15s
9 SLO Tadej Valjavec SLO at 06m 34s
10 ESP Juan Manuel Garate Cepa ESP at 07m 47s
11 ITA Franco Pellizotti ITA at 09m 45s
12 ITA Emanuele Sella ITA at 10m 26s
13 RUS Pavel Tonkov RUS at 10m 43s
14 BEL Christophe Brandt BEL at 10m 50s
15 COL Luis Felipe Laverde Jiménez COL at 13m 43s
16 ESP Ruben Lobato Elvira ESP at 21m 11s
17 ITA Andrea Noè ITA at 22m 33s
18 ESP David Cañada Gracia ESP at 22m 52s
19 SUI Steve Zampieri SUI at 25m 53s
20 ITA Giuseppe Di Grande ITA at 26m 05s

2005:
Giro d'Italia
1 ITA Paolo Savoldelli ITA in 91h 25m 51s
2 ITA Gilberto Simoni ITA at 28s
3 VEN José Humberto Rujano Guillén VEN at 45s
4 ITA Danilo Di Luca ITA at 02m 42s
5 ESP Juan Manuel Garate Cepa ESP at 03m 11s
6 UKR Serhiy Honchar UKR at 04m 22s
7 RUS Vladimir Karpets RUS at 11m 15s
8 ITA Pietro Caucchioli ITA at 11m 38s
9 ITA Marzio Bruseghin ITA at 11m 40s
10 ITA Emanuele Sella ITA at 12m 33s
11 BEL Wim Van Huffel BEL at 13m 49s
12 GER Markus Fothen GER at 14m 42s
13 ITA Dario David Cioni ITA at 15m 26s
14 ESP Daniel Atienza Urendez ESP at 15m 52s
15 SLO Tadej Valjavec SLO at 19m 22s
16 ESP Unai Osa Eizaguirre ESP at 20m 46s
17 ESP Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez ESP at 21m 55s
18 ITA Damiano Cunego ITA at 24m 05s
19 ITA Giampaolo Caruso ITA at 24m 29s
20 COL Iván Ramiro Parra Pinto COL at 25m 37s

Question is, who did and who didnt. And, why do we so constantly the same epo names in the top 20 after the epo test was implemented? Can we say they did not have problems switching to bloodbags at all? Which riders fell out of the top of the GC cause they didnt want to mess with bloodbags? Apart for some one day wonders the top 20 is pretty consistent.

Okay, lets switch to that other Grand Tour.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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2000:
Tour de France
1 USA Lance Arnstrong in 92h 33m 08s
2 GER Jan Ullrich GER at 06m 02s
3 ESP Joseba Beloki Dorronsoro ESP at 10m 04s
4 FRA Christophe Moreau FRA at 10m 34s
5 ESP Roberto Heras Hernandez ESP at 11m 50s
6 FRA Richard Virenque FRA at 13m 26s
7 COL Santiago Botero Echeverry COL at 14m 18s
8 ESP Fernando Escartin Coti ESP at 17m 21s
9 ESP Francisco Mancebo Perez ESP at 10m 09s
10 ITA Daniele Nardello ITA at 18m 25s
11 ESP Manuel Beltran Martinez ESP at 21m 11s
12 FRA Pascal Hervé FRA at 23m 14s
13 ESP Javier Otxoa Palacios ESP at 25m
14 ESP Felix Manuel Garcia Casas ESP at 32m 04s
15 KAZ Alexandre Vinokourov KAZ at 32m 26s
16 ITA Roberto Conti ITA at 34m 18s
17 BEL Kurt Van De Wouwer BEL at 34m 29s
18 ITA Guido Trentin ITA at 35m 57s
19 FRA Jean-Cyril Robin FRA at 43m 12s
20 BEL Geert Verheyen BEL at 46m 24s

EPO and a bloodbag for the then a time 'winner'. Botero was on the Fuentes special, just like Heras.

2001:
Tour de France
1 X X in 86h 17m 28s
2 GER Jan Ullrich GER at 06m 44s
3 ESP Joseba Beloki Dorronsoro ESP at 09m 05s
4 KAZ Andrei Kivilev KAZ at 09m 53s
5 ESP Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano Aranzabal ESP at 13m 28s
6 FRA François Simon FRA at 17m 22s
7 ESP Oscar Sevilla Ribera ESP at 18m 30s
8 COL Santiago Botero Echeverry COL at 20m 55s
9 ESP Marcos Antonio Serrano Rodriguez ESP at 21m 45s
10 NED Michael Boogerd NED at 22m 38s
11 FRA Didier Rous FRA at 24m 22s
12 ESP Iñigo Chaurreau Bernadez ESP at 28m 09s
13 ESP Francisco Mancebo Perez ESP at 28m 33s
14 ITA Stefano Garzelli ITA at 29m
15 ESP Roberto Heras Hernandez ESP at 30m 44s
16 KAZ Alexandre Vinokourov KAZ at 33m 55s
17 RUS Alexandre Botcharov RUS at 41m 15s
18 USA Bobby Julich USA at 48m 04s
19 FRA Laurent Jalabert FRA at 50m 06s
20 ESP Carlos Sastre Candil ESP at 50m 20s

2002:
Tour de France
1 X X in 82h 05m 12s
2 ESP Joseba Beloki Dorronsoro ESP at 07m 17s
3 LTU Raimondas Rumsas LTU at 08m 17s
4 COL Santiago Botero Echeverry COL at 13m 10s
5 ESP Igor Gonzalez de Galdeano Aranzabal ESP at 13m 54s
6 POR José Bento Azevedo Carvalho POR at 15m 44s
7 ESP Francisco Mancebo Perez ESP at 16m 05s
8 USA Levi Leipheimer USA at 17m 11s
9 ESP Roberto Heras Hernandez ESP at 17m 22s
10 ESP Carlos Sastre Candil ESP at 19m 05s
11 ITA Ivan Basso ITA at 19m 18s
12 NED Michael Boogerd NED at 20m 33s
13 FRA David Moncoutié FRA at 21m 08s
14 ITA Massimiliano Lelli ITA at 27m 51s
15 USA Tyler Hamilton USA at 28m 36s
16 FRA Richard Virenque FRA at 28m 42s
17 FRA Stéphane Goubert FRA at 29m 51s
18 ESP Unai Osa Eizaguirre ESP at 30m 17s
19 FRA Nicolas Vogondy FRA at 32m 44s
20 DEN Nicki Sørensen DEN at 32m 56s

2003:
Tour de France
1 X X in 83h 41m 12s
2 GER Jan Ullrich GER at 01m 01s
3 KAZ Alexandre Vinokourov KAZ at 04m 14s
4 USA Tyler Hamilton USA at 05m 17s
5 ESP Haimar Zubeldía Aguirre ESP at 06m 51s
6 ESP Iban Mayo Diez ESP at 07m 06s
7 ITA Ivan Basso ITA at 10m 12s
8 FRA Christophe Moreau FRA at 12m 28s
9 ESP Carlos Sastre Candil ESP at 18m 49s
10 ESP Francisco Mancebo Perez ESP at 19m 15s
11 RUS Denis Menchov RUS at 19m 44s
12 AUT Georg Totschnig AUT at 21m 32s
13 AUT Peter Luttenberger AUT at 22m 16s
14 ESP Manuel Beltran Martinez ESP at 23m 03s
15 ITA Massimiliano Lelli ITA at 24m
16 FRA Richard Virenque FRA at 25m 31s
17 GER Jörg Jaksche GER at 27m 22s
18 ESP Roberto Laiseka Jaio ESP at 29m 15s
19 ESP José-Luis Rubiera Vigil ESP at 29m 37s
20 FRA Didier Rous FRA at 30m 14s

2004:
Tour de France
1 X X in 83h 36m 02s
2 GER Andreas Klöden GER at 06m 19s
3 ITA Ivan Basso ITA at 06m 40s
4 GER Jan Ullrich GER at 08m 50s
5 POR José Bento Azevedo Carvalho POR at 14m 30s
6 ESP Francisco Mancebo Perez ESP at 18m 01s
7 AUT Georg Totschnig AUT at 18m 27s
8 ESP Carlos Sastre Candil ESP at 19m 51s
9 USA Levi Leipheimer USA at 20m 12s
10 ESP Oscar Pereiro Sio ESP at 22m 54s
11 ITA Pietro Caucchioli ITA at 24m 21s
12 FRA Christophe Moreau FRA at 24m 36s
13 RUS Vladimir Karpets RUS at 25m 11s
14 DEN Michael Rasmussen DEN at 27m 16s
15 FRA Richard Virenque FRA at 28m 11s
16 FRA Sandy Casar FRA at 28m 53s
17 ITA Gilberto Simoni ITA at 29m
18 FRA Thomas Voeckler FRA at 31m 12s
19 ESP José-Luis Rubiera Vigil ESP at 32m 50s
20 FRA Stéphane Goubert FRA at 37m 11s

2005:
Tour de France
1 X X in 86h 15m 02s
2 ITA Ivan Basso ITA at 04m 40s
3 GER Jan Ullrich GER at 06m 21s
4 ESP Francisco Mancebo Perez ESP at 09m 59s
5 KAZ Alexandre Vinokourov KAZ at 11m 01s
6 USA Levi Leipheimer USA at 11m 21s
7 DEN Michael Rasmussen DEN at 11m 33s
8 AUS Cadel Evans AUS at 11m 55s
9 USA Floyd Landis USA at 12m 44s
10 ESP Oscar Pereiro Sio ESP at 16m 04s
11 FRA Christophe Moreau FRA at 16m 26s
12 UKR Yaroslav Popovych UKR at 19m 02s
13 ITA Eddy Mazzoleni ITA at 21m 06s
14 USA George Hincapie Garcés USA at 23m 40s
15 ESP Haimar Zubeldía Aguirre ESP at 23m 43s
16 GER Jörg Jaksche GER at 24m 07s
17 USA Bobby Julich USA at 24m 08s
18 ESP Oscar Sevilla Ribera ESP at 27m 45s
19 KAZ Andrey Kashechkin KAZ at 28m 04s
20 ITA Giuseppe Guerini ITA at 33m 02s

It could be me but I notice the same pattern as at the best GT. Same epo riders, one day wonders also, if I could name a rider absent a few years it would be Moreau, who was no stranger to the ol' Edgar.

I could do the same for the Vuelta but I lack time.
 
I think Nardello fell out of the Tour top 10. 3 in a row in 1998-2000 and then nothing.

Of course, roles change, preferences change and honestly I never really thought of him as a GT rider.

But he is the one who immediately comes to mind.
 
roundabout said:
I think Nardello fell out of the Tour top 10. 3 in a row in 1998-2000 and then nothing.

Of course, roles change, preferences change and honestly I never really thought of him as a GT rider.

But he is the one who immediately comes to mind.
Hard to say who is a GT rider when the sport is polluted with dopers I think (and i don't think thats much different now). Nardello always struck me as riding clean, and if he was then his top tens would seem to indicate he had a lot of talent.

His manager took a lot of heat for stating the truth about what it took to win or top 5, as it implicated Armstrong and all the defenders went nuts.
 
Apr 20, 2012
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red_flanders said:
His manager took a lot of heat for stating the truth about what it took to win or top 5, as it implicated Armstrong and all the defenders went nuts.
Do you have more info on this? Nice angle.
 
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Do you have more info on this? Nice angle.
Just comments I recall from watching the long, 8 hour version of the '99 Tour (on VHS) if I recall. That said this was coming from Phil and Paul, so take it with a grain, etc.

I'll try and dig it up. You recall Quick-Steps manager or owner names in 99?
 
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red_flanders said:
Just comments I recall from watching the long, 8 hour version of the '99 Tour (on VHS) if I recall. That said this was coming from Phil and Paul, so take it with a grain, etc.

I'll try and dig it up. You recall Quick-Steps manager or owner names in 99?
You talking about Squinzi? He had some kind of 'vision' in 1999, that is correct.

I called it comedia del arte at the time, still do by the way. His teams being implicated by working with:

a: Conconi
b: Ferrari
c: Vanmol
d: Besnati

etc etc

did not bother Squinzi.
 
Yes, Squinzi. Found it:

http://ftp.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/jul00/tdfrance00/news/tdfjul21news.shtml

"My team is in line with the predictions: we won three stages and might well gain another. So we are content because ours is a team that does not take risks from the point of view of blood doping," said Squinzi to La Gazzetta dello Sport in Rome. "We know well that we are the best team in the world, but in stage races we can't compete because without blood doping it is impossible to make the top five. Our best rider can maybe come 7th, but for us that is the same as winning the Tour."
Of course all the Armstrong defenders went nuts as they took it as a direct shot.

Anyway, regardless of what value one puts on Squinzi's comments, what he said was absolutely true, and frankly pretty conservative given the actual facts.

Nardello always struck me as clean and legit. Very tough guy I thought.
 
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red_flanders said:
Yes, Squinzi. Found it:

http://ftp.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/jul00/tdfrance00/news/tdfjul21news.shtml
"My team is in line with the predictions: we won three stages and might well gain another. So we are content because ours is a team that does not take risks from the point of view of blood doping," said Squinzi to La Gazzetta dello Sport in Rome. "We know well that we are the best team in the world, but in stage races we can't compete because without blood doping it is impossible to make the top five. Our best rider can maybe come 7th, but for us that is the same as winning the Tour."


Of course all the Armstrong defenders went nuts as they took it as a direct shot.

Anyway, regardless of what value one puts on Squinzi's comments, what he said was absolutely true, and frankly pretty conservative given the actual facts.

Nardello always struck me as clean and legit. Very tough guy I thought.
hhjhjhjhghhhhh
 
Apr 20, 2012
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red_flanders said:
Yes, Squinzi. Found it:

http://ftp.cyclingnews.com/results/2000/jul00/tdfrance00/news/tdfjul21news.shtml
"My team is in line with the predictions: we won three stages and might well gain another. So we are content because ours is a team that does not take risks from the point of view of blood doping," said Squinzi to La Gazzetta dello Sport in Rome. "We know well that we are the best team in the world, but in stage races we can't compete because without blood doping it is impossible to make the top five. Our best rider can maybe come 7th, but for us that is the same as winning the Tour."
Yep. That Squinzi. He just forgot his team domination in the classics since when, 1994-1995? Tonkov doing pretty well in his shirt in 1997 and 1998 in the GT's? Yeah, he was on bread and water...
So, to follow Squinzi's reasoning, how did Pavel come in fifth at the 2000 Giro?

Andrea Tafi talking about cleaning up cycling during the Giro 1999 was like watching pharmstrong at the SCA lawsuit, what a hypocrite.
red_flanders said:
Of course all the Armstrong defenders went nuts as they took it as a direct shot.
That would be the difference between fans and 'objective' cycling haters.

red_flanders said:
Anyway, regardless of what value one puts on Squinzi's comments, what he said was absolutely true, and frankly pretty conservative given the actual facts.
Yes, too bad he did not look in his own mirror, thus makes the comments hypocritical in my book.

red_flanders said:
Nardello always struck me as clean and legit. Very tough guy I thought.
Nah, epo user. Perhaps he did not want to transfuse.
 
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Yes, too bad he did not look in his own mirror, thus makes the comments hypocritical in my book.
Yes, or at least naive at the time. Doubt it though, would tend to agree with you. But still correct in his assertion.

Nah, epo user. Perhaps he did not want to transfuse.
Just a question, not a challenge but how do you know that? I mean it's not going to shock me or anything, but he always looked to me to ride within normal parameters for a pretty good if not great rider.
 
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red_flanders said:
Just a question, not a challenge but how do you know that? I mean it's not going to shock me or anything, but he always looked to me to ride within normal parameters for a pretty good if not great rider.
You are right, I dont know that, for sure that is. But, when domestiques like Zanini/Tafi and sprinter Steels of the Mapei 1998 Tour team have been found guilty of either a positive for Epo or an adverse finding of Epo below the 85% treshold, would it be possible that the topriders of the team - di Grande and Nardello - were also using some syringes?

I have taken the liberty to look up some of Nardello's results:

1995, 22 years old
http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1995/06/05/pagina-46/1337736/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen
53th at the Giro, more than two hours down, probably bottle duty
Second in Lombardia later that year, pretty good.

1996, 23 years old
Stage win Sarthe, wins Milano - Turin, comes in 15th in the Vuelta, plus stage win there
http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1996/09/30/pagina-49/1313193/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen
Comes in fourth at the last TT, two minutes down on teammate Rominger. Bottle duty and top fifteen? Impressive, especially in that year.

1997, 24 years old
Wins the Tour of Austria, was not the best climber there. Top 20 in the Tour.
Did the Vuelta as a domestique for Tonkov, I assume, on stage 16 he was 57th in GC
http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1997/09/23/pagina-36/383060/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen
He took a fall in stage 20 but dont know if he abandoned there. Must be since he was not in the endlist of the GC.

1998, 25 years old and onwards are known.

Then, for the Squinzi story of 1999, I found this very interesting:
http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1999/06/07/pagina-40/416110/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen

If the Mapei team were on bread and water, then I guess Giuseppe di Grande was indeed the talent people always said he was. The Blitz raid of 2001 suggests otherwise though...
But he fits in the narrative of not wanting to transfuse just fine, his lack of results inbetween 2001 - 2003 are there.
 
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roundabout said:
For me one of the most impressive Nardello results was 4th in the Worlds TT in 1996.
Thanks, overlooked that one. That WC was pretty interesting.

1. Giulano Figueras (Italy) 4.23.50
2. Roberto Sgambelluri (Italy) 0.01
3. Luca Sironi (Italy) 0.29
4. Paolo Bettini (Italy) s.t.
8. Michael Barry (Canada) 2:13
9. Jorg Jaksche (Germany) 2.21
10. Salvatore Commesso (Italy) s.t.

Or the under 23 Time Trial:
1. Luca Sironi (Italy) 37.51.89
2. Roberto Sgambelluri (Italy) 38.44.38
3. Andreas Kloeden (Germany) 38.49.39
9. Jorg Jaksche (Germany) 40.27.14
20. Aitor Gonzalez (Spain) 41.20.44
25. Christian Vandevelde (USA) 3:45 behind

Luca Sironi, must also be a victim.

Men's 40.4km time-trial world championship:

1. Alex Zulle (Swi) 48:13
2. Chris Boardman (Gbr) 0.39
3. Tony Rominger (Swi) 0.41
4. Daniele Nardello (Ita) 1:01
5. Andrea Peron (Ita) 1:34
6. Uwe Peschel (Ger) 1:36
7. Juan Carlos Dominguez (Spa) 1:52
8. Abraham Olano (Spa) 1:55
9. Viatcheslav Ekimov (Rus) 2:22
10. Neil Stephens (Aus) 2:34
11. Michael Andersson (Swe) s.t.
12. Michael Rich (Ger) 3:34
13. Thomas Brozyna (Pol) 3:36
14. Michael Blaudzun (Den) 3:43
15. Christophe Moreau (Fra) 3:52
16. Marc Streeel (Bel) 4:04
17. Christophe Bassons (Fra) 4:23
18. Walter Bonca (Slo) 4:30
19. Dariusz Baranowski (Pol) 4:32
20. Jan Karlsson (Swe) 4:35
21. Erik Dekker (Ned) 4:52
22. Bert Roesems (Bel) 5:13
23. Tyler Hamilton (USA) 5:16
 
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Who are they? More importantly: who weren't.

After the EPo test of 2000 the peloton nutters switched back to oldskool blooddoping. Of course more sophisticated than the to be rumoured blooddoper Lasse Viren, but hey, blood is blood.

It is mentioned some/a lot of riders didnt/didnt want to participate in these practises, just like in the nineties where some riders didnt want to use epo and subsequently were forced out of the sport.

Is there a measurement stick for these riders? Can we use statistics?

Question is, who did and who didnt. And, why do we so constantly the same epo names in the top 20 after the epo test was implemented? Can we say they did not have problems switching to bloodbags at all? Which riders fell out of the top of the GC cause they didnt want to mess with bloodbags? Apart for some one day wonders the top 20 is pretty consistent.

Okay, lets switch to that other Grand Tour.
I think there was no massive switch from EPO to Blood Doping. The logistics required to do blood doping are pretty large compared to EPO. Also the level of privacy goes down as there is the need of other persons to help with it. Risk factors are also higher. The fact of Di Luca getting caught for mircera and EPO is simply an indication of that. With the test for EPO, all that one needs to do is timing(For which Il Dottore Ferrari was/is the best). If you are tested now, you can dope with impunity for the next 2 months. In a race, donot come first, donot be the yellow jersey till the EPO has cleared out of your system. In the top 20 that you have shown, only the stage winners and the general classification leaders would have been tested over the course of the entire race that too only when they were leading the race or winning the stage. There also was the tactic of giving away the jersey so the team has to do less work but in fact it would have been used as a doping window. So it would be no surprise to see the same names over and over again:rolleyes:.
 

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