The climbs of the Tour de France - what's new?

[Danskebjerge]

I've just updated the analysis of the climbs of the Tour de France. So you'll not only get an overview of this year's climbs but also a comparison of 485 categorized Tour climbs since 2006:

http://danskebjerge.dk/article-categories-2015.htm

Hopefully, the article will help clarify what the categorization actually covers.

 

[Taxus4a]

I've just updated the analysis of the climbs of the Tour de France. So you'll not only get an overview of this year's climbs but also a comparison of 485 categorized Tour climbs since 2006:

http://danskebjerge.dk/article-categories-2015.htm

Hopefully, the article will help clarify what the categorization actually covers.

Thanks!

The category is just for the KOM, not a real mesure of the climbs.

I think the clims are ok, there are a lot of mythical and hard climbs:

Pierre Sant Martin, Tourmalet, Plateau de Beille, Alp d Huez, Galibier, Glandon, or even Mende and Lacets...but tyhere is not an stage when you say for its lenght, its altitude, its climbs, it is a real stage for climbers and endurance riders.

The stage of alp D Huez is short, the same la Toussuire,...Tourmalet stage is not very hard, La Pierrre is a solo climb stage...just Palteau is close to a real hard stage for endurance climbers.

Anyway there are enough mountain, at lest for the weak ITT.

 

[Poursuivant]

What's the steepest climb this year alpe dhuez?

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re:

What's the steepest climb this year alpe dhuez?

Stage 14 finish up to Croix Neuve is over 10% for 3km.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

What's the steepest climb this year alpe dhuez?

Stage 14 finish up to Croix Neuve is over 10% for 3km.

Nice one.

Not only does this year lack enough TT miles, but it seems to lack a really, really killer stage. Such a missed opportunity.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

What's the steepest climb this year alpe dhuez?

Stage 14 finish up to Croix Neuve is over 10% for 3km.

Nice one.

Not only does this year lack enough TT miles, but it seems to lack a really, really killer stage. Such a missed opportunity.

Yeah I agree, it's a really rubbish route. Here's hoping the riders can put on a great show instead.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

What's the steepest climb this year alpe dhuez?

Stage 14 finish up to Croix Neuve is over 10% for 3km.

Nice one.

Not only does this year lack enough TT miles, but it seems to lack a really, really killer stage. Such a missed opportunity.

Yeah I agree, it's a really rubbish route. Here's hoping the riders can put on a great show instead.

I know mate, no crashes or injuries/illness please. Doubt that won't happen though

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

What's the steepest climb this year alpe dhuez?

Stage 14 finish up to Croix Neuve is over 10% for 3km.

Nice one.

Not only does this year lack enough TT miles, but it seems to lack a really, really killer stage. Such a missed opportunity.

To be fair, the last time we had one it looked more like a sunday ride than an actual bike race. Let's gamble on the old mantra ''The riders make the race'', this time.

 

[Danskebjerge]

We will have to wait until stage 11 before we see a climb tougher than category 3 or 4. That's a bit surprising. I thought the Tour organizers would follow the example of the Giro and Vuelta where they've begun to mix the different types of stages much more.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

What's the steepest climb this year alpe dhuez?

Stage 14 finish up to Croix Neuve is over 10% for 3km.

Nice one.

Not only does this year lack enough TT miles, but it seems to lack a really, really killer stage. Such a missed opportunity.

To be fair, the last time we had one it looked more like a sunday ride than an actual bike race. Let's gamble on the old mantra ''The riders make the race'', this time.

The riders hopefully will make the race this time, but probably it will be the race of final km attacks.
I hope I'm wrong but the only stage which seems to have GC action with 50 to go is the cobbled stage 4.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

We will have to wait until stage 11 before we see a climb tougher than category 3 or 4. That's a bit surprising. I thought the Tour organizers would follow the example of the Giro and Vuelta where they've begun to mix the different types of stages much more.

Actually in my view, it seems like that's exactly what they've been trying to do by planning 2 short steep uphill finishes in the first week. Mur de Bretagne/Huy are ofcourse not equal to La Zubia (Vuelta 2014) or Abetone (Giro 2015), but atleast the organizers have tried to make an exciting first week, where teams (apart from cobbles, wind and difficult stage finishes) will have to deal with the knowledge that they cannot afford to lose too many riders for the Team Time Trial on stage 9.

 

[Poursuivant]

We will have to wait until stage 11 before we see a climb tougher than category 3 or 4. That's a bit surprising. I thought the Tour organizers would follow the example of the Giro and Vuelta where they've begun to mix the different types of stages much more.

I think it would take a few of the first week nerves away with a nice little MTF early on.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

We will have to wait until stage 11 before we see a climb tougher than category 3 or 4. That's a bit surprising. I thought the Tour organizers would follow the example of the Giro and Vuelta where they've begun to mix the different types of stages much more.

Actually in my view, it seems like that's exactly what they've been trying to do by planning 2 short steep uphill finishes in the first week. Mur de Bretagne/Huy are ofcourse not equal to La Zubia (Vuelta 2014) or Abetone (Giro 2015), but atleast the organizers have tried to make an exciting first week, where teams (apart from cobbles, wind and difficult stage finishes) will have to deal with the knowledge that they cannot afford to lose too many riders for the Team Time Trial on stage 9.

The issue is when they have such a northern-based first week, needing to open up the GC, because as long as everybody has something to protect, there will be more crashes as people are trying to protect their interests on the narrow races.

Stages like the 2010 Spa stage that got annulled by Cancellara are the right kind of idea:

I appreciate the use of climbs like the Mur de Huy (Mûr-de-Bretagne is stage 8, that is not an early stage to break up the GC, because a) it's only a smallish puncheur climb anyway, and b) it's stage 8. A whole week's racing has already gone) to that end, because as well as the cobbles, the only real option on the route direction they have for reasonable sized climbing in week 1 would be in the little part of France north of Charleville-Mézières that pokes up into the Ardennes in Belgium. Something like the old semitappes of the Critérium International:

Otherwise, if they can't manage that, then surely they could do something like, you know, a half-decent time trial. Just like in 2008, where they didn't get to the Pyrenées until partway through week 2 but they broke the GC up well. Plumelec is a small puncheur finish, but then they had a 25-30k ITT on stage 4, then the Super-Besse stage on stage 6 (something like this isn't really possible in the very north of France other than the Charleville-Mézières area).

 

[Danskebjerge]

We will have to wait until stage 11 before we see a climb tougher than category 3 or 4. That's a bit surprising. I thought the Tour organizers would follow the example of the Giro and Vuelta where they've begun to mix the different types of stages much more.

Actually in my view, it seems like that's exactly what they've been trying to do by planning 2 short steep uphill finishes in the first week. (...)

I agree - I like those finishing hills.

But for the general classification, they mean close to nothing.

 

[Danskebjerge]

We will have to wait until stage 11 before we see a climb tougher than category 3 or 4. That's a bit surprising. I thought the Tour organizers would follow the example of the Giro and Vuelta where they've begun to mix the different types of stages much more.

Actually in my view, it seems like that's exactly what they've been trying to do by planning 2 short steep uphill finishes in the first week. Mur de Bretagne/Huy are ofcourse not equal to La Zubia (Vuelta 2014) or Abetone (Giro 2015), but atleast the organizers have tried to make an exciting first week, where teams (apart from cobbles, wind and difficult stage finishes) will have to deal with the knowledge that they cannot afford to lose too many riders for the Team Time Trial on stage 9.

Stages like the 2010 Spa stage that got annulled by Cancellara are the right kind of idea:

Yes, and I believe you can find spring classic-like terrain everywhere in Northern Europe if you just search thoroughly enough. They could have made the first week tougher if the wanted. And a mountain on stage 8 as the latest should not be a problem either.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It doesn't even need a big mountain. They just need to have something that sorts the GC contenders from the pretenders and means the bunch gets settled down a bit. An intermediate stage like the Champagne-Ardennes one above is fine; it's hard enough by the final ramp that the bunch will be reduced. A 25-30km ITT like in 2008 is perfect (or you could go for more, like the 2008 Vuelta and the 40km+ Ciudad Real TT on stage 5). When everybody still has something to protect you've got 10-12 teams trying to protect their leader at the front in the closing stages and another 5-6 trying to pull their sprinter to the front, and there's not enough room at the front for that. Once a few leaders' ambitions have been reappraised or plans changed, fewer people are trying to get into that space at the front.

 

[Danskebjerge]

We will have to wait until stage 11 (...)

Sorry, the finishing climb of stage 10 is a HC.

 

[Gigs_98]

I think it would be important to use the jura mountains, the vosges and the massif central more often, because these mountains would be a possibility to put more difficult climbs into the first week.

 

[Tonton]

I think it would be important to use the jura mountains, the vosges and the massif central more often, because these mountains would be a possibility to put more difficult climbs into the first week.

Absolutely. There are many, many 4 cat that could be put in succession anywhere in France and turn the race into a daily Ronde. The problem is that with limited transfers and the now usual start in neighboring countries, that would limit how much France is on the route of the Tour de...France. Hence the big roads to go from point A to point B, instead of the back roads. To your point: the Massif Central, the Vosges, and the Jura mountains have hundreds of nasty 2-3K climbs, often with a grainy road, a real torture. In the southern Jura mountains, a major climb (Le Grand Colombier) is being neglected: too easy to take La Faucille to or from the Alps. And once again, I will mention le Col du Jandri, which could be to paved all the way for just a few millions and give France the toughest climb in a GT.

 

[Red Rick]

Jandri is awfull, can only finish there, I've heard it looks awful up there.

Better pave the Rosael and descend into Val thorens or even further, can have it 150k out and still create carnage.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Jandri is awfull, can only finish there, I've heard it looks awful up there.

Better pave the Rosael and descend into Val thorens or even further, can have it 150k out and still create carnage.

The Jandri is on a glacier, it looks like the moon, but it's somewhat flat on top with an area that could accommodate bleachers...and a cable car system for transportation.

Agree on the Rosael. Why not do both? It's not like ASO can't pitch a few millions...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'd rather they concentrate on using the great climbs that are available that they aren't using before they spend money on the likes of Jandri and Rosael. You know, the likes of Mont du Chat, Granon, Luitel (look, just climb Chamrousse via this route if they pay), Mont Bisanne (use instead of Saisies), Col du Pré (link to Cormet de Roseland), Col de la Lusette (the hardest Massif climb still available), and all of the Pyrenées outside of the one central area between Portet d'Aspet and Marie-Blanque (except for the climbs close to Ax-les-Thermes, those get a regular outing).

If they are going to pave a crazy hell-slope I'd rather it be Parpaillon, because that could be linked to lots of amazing options immediately.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I'd rather they concentrate on using the great climbs that are available that they aren't using before they spend money on the likes of Jandri and Rosael. You know, the likes of Mont du Chat, Granon, Luitel (look, just climb Chamrousse via this route if they pay), Mont Bisanne (use instead of Saisies), Col du Pré (link to Cormet de Roseland), Col de la Lusette (the hardest Massif climb still available), and all of the Pyrenées outside of the one central area between Portet d'Aspet and Marie-Blanque (except for the climbs close to Ax-les-Thermes, those get a regular outing).

If they are going to pave a crazy hell-slope I'd rather it be Parpaillon, because that could be linked to lots of amazing options immediately.

I agree with your first paragraph and was making that point previously when referring to the Grand Colombier. The Col du Parpaillon is a great idea. But I'll stick with the Jandri. +1 on your take about the Pyrenees: there are gems out there that haven't been explored. It comes down to not spending four days out of France, take the back roads instead of the same "pre-digested" stretches over and over.

 

[MikeTichondrius]

Re:

I'd rather they concentrate on using the great climbs that are available that they aren't using before they spend money on the likes of Jandri and Rosael. You know, the likes of Mont du Chat, Granon, Luitel (look, just climb Chamrousse via this route if they pay), Mont Bisanne (use instead of Saisies), Col du Pré (link to Cormet de Roseland), Col de la Lusette (the hardest Massif climb still available), and all of the Pyrenées outside of the one central area between Portet d'Aspet and Marie-Blanque (except for the climbs close to Ax-les-Thermes, those get a regular outing).

If they are going to pave a crazy hell-slope I'd rather it be Parpaillon, because that could be linked to lots of amazing options immediately.

Parpaillon could be France's answer to the Finestre if they wanted to. At least one side would need paving though...Can't be cheap, though cheaper than paving the likes of Jandri I figure! And regarding the tunnel, they'd probably need to take the road to the very top of the col like in Galibier (though I guess in Galibier's case the tunnel is the newer one?) How long would a Cuneo - Embrun stage be?

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

I'd rather they concentrate on using the great climbs that are available that they aren't using before they spend money on the likes of Jandri and Rosael. You know, the likes of Mont du Chat, Granon, Luitel (look, just climb Chamrousse via this route if they pay), Mont Bisanne (use instead of Saisies), Col du Pré (link to Cormet de Roseland), Col de la Lusette (the hardest Massif climb still available), and all of the Pyrenées outside of the one central area between Portet d'Aspet and Marie-Blanque (except for the climbs close to Ax-les-Thermes, those get a regular outing).

If they are going to pave a crazy hell-slope I'd rather it be Parpaillon, because that could be linked to lots of amazing options immediately.

Parpaillon could be France's answer to the Finestre if they wanted to. At least one side would need paving though...Can't be cheap, though cheaper than paving the likes of Jandri I figure! And regarding the tunnel, they'd probably need to take the road to the very top of the col like in Galibier (though I guess in Galibier's case the tunnel is the newer one?) How long would a Cuneo - Embrun stage be?

Cuneo - Embrun would be great for sure but you would use the easier parpaillon side which is still very difficult but by far not the monster, the west side would be.