The Giro vs The Tour

[SoNiK4]

A good read (mods please move if not in appropriate forum):

http://www.rapha.cc/the-giro-vs-the-tour

 

[The Hitch]

Top article. Though less a “Giro vs Tour” and more a “Why Giro >>>>> Tour” type article.

It is absolutely correct of course. And it doesn’t even mention the fact that the line-up for the 2011 Giro even without Ricco is still better than the Tour one. Even if Contador were to ride the Tour.

 

[The Hitch]

Top article. Though less a “Giro vs Tour” and more a “Why Giro >>>>> Tour” type article.

It is absolutely correct of course. And it doesn’t even mention the fact that the line-up for the 2011 Giro even without Ricco is still better than the Tour one. Even if Contador were to ride the Tour.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Unlike the Tour, which gives the sprinters six stages to display their power, the Giro’s stage three instead hands out a 50km climb. It does start off like another endless flat sprinters’ stage, until it turns westward to take a road over the coast - 'over' being the operative word here. The reward, though, is more than enough for the effort demanded; one of the best descents I have yet seen.

win win win \o/

/edit: Like Hitch says, it seems more like an article on why the Giro is so awesome. We should avoid the comparison, we need them both

 

[luckyboy]

Nice read.

The Giro is so much better.

 

[Jamsque]

I love the Giro, I love the Tour, they are both great. It doesn't always have to be either-or.

 

[jaylew]

It is absolutely correct of course. And it doesn’t even mention the fact that the line-up for the 2011 Giro even without Ricco is still better than the Tour one. Even if Contador were to ride the Tour.

I wouldn't go quite that far. Without AC and with Ricco, I'd agree, but with Contador I think the Tour lineup would edge out the Giro's.

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

I love the Giro, I love the Tour, they are both great. It doesn't always have to be either-or.

Yeah, the Giro brings unpredictibility and epic routes while the Tour brings together the best riders all at their peaks (well, at least they try to be at their peaks).

 

[The Hitch]

the Tour brings together the best riders all at their peaks

No the Tour doesnt. The Tour tends to have a better lineup, but it certainatly doesnt have all the best riders. Every year top riders miss it for the Giro/ Vuelta or focus harder on the others. Sometimes because of lack of invites or Italies vendeta against Valverde but top riders miss every year nonetheless.

In 09 the top 4 of the Giro and top 4 of the Vuelta could all have made it into the Tour podium or even top 2.

And as i have said, this year the lineup of Menchov, Nibali, Rodriguez, Anton, Sastre, Rujano, Kreuziger, Scarponi seems to surpass Schleck, Samu, and then ummm Gesink and ummmm well Soler and maybe Jurgen "never won even a stage" VandenBroek.

I love the Giro, I love the Tour, they are both great. It doesn't always have to be either-or.

Well it does for most of the media and world. Tour tour tour, never a mention of the giro. And lets not forget what comrade General Secretary of the UCI said about cutting down the Giro to make the Tour even more special.

Once in a while we need to cheer on the epic Giro to even things out a bit.

 

[royalpig180]

No the Tour doesnt. The Tour tends to have a better lineup, but it certainatly doesnt have all the best riders. Every year top riders miss it for the Giro/ Vuelta or focus harder on the others. Sometimes because of lack of invites or Italies vendeta against Valverde but top riders miss every year nonetheless.

He does have a point though. Regardless of the quality of the lineup, the difference is that all the riders at the Tour are peaking whereas those at the Giro are not necessarily peaking. Sure you get the riders going for the Giro overall who are obviously on peak form, but you also get riders riding just to build up fitness for the tour. Now you don't see anyone riding the tour to build up for the Vuelta do you?

NOTE: This is not to say that the Tour is the better race (I prefer the Giro) or that it has stronger lineups, its a simple reality though that riders who go to the tour are nearly always peaking.

 

[The Hitch]

He does have a point though. Regardless of the quality of the lineup, the difference is that all the riders at the Tour are peaking whereas those at the Giro are not necessarily peaking. Sure you get the riders going for the Giro overall who are obviously on peak form, but you also get riders riding just to build up fitness for the tour. Now you don't see anyone riding the tour to build up for the Vuelta do you?

NOTE: This is not to say that the Tour is the better race (I prefer the Giro) or that it has stronger lineups, its a simple reality though that riders who go to the tour are nearly always peaking.

Menchov 2008. Menchov 2009. Sastre 2009. Ivan Basso 2010. Cadel Evans 2010.

Examples in recent years of Grand Tour / World champions going into the tour off peak. In sastres case that was the defending champion.

 

[movingtarget]

No the Tour doesnt. The Tour tends to have a better lineup, but it certainatly doesnt have all the best riders. Every year top riders miss it for the Giro/ Vuelta or focus harder on the others. Sometimes because of lack of invites or Italies vendeta against Valverde but top riders miss every year nonetheless.

In 09 the top 4 of the Giro and top 4 of the Vuelta could all have made it into the Tour podium or even top 2.


Well it does for most of the media and world. Tour tour tour, never a mention of the giro. And lets not forget what comrade General Secretary of the UCI said about cutting down the Giro to make the Tour even more special.

Once in a while we need to cheer on the epic Giro to even things out a bit.

And as i have said, this year the lineup of Menchov, Nibali, Rodriguez, Anton, Sastre, Rujano, Kreuziger, Scarponi seems to surpass Schleck, Samu, and then ummm Gesink and ummmm well Soler and maybe Jurgen "never won even a stage" VandenBroek.
**********************************************************

If I remember correctly, you were the one, talking up Sanchez's chances in this year's Tour. What about Basso and Evans, Kiserlovski, Vino, Schleck brothers, Hesjedal,Leipheimer and Kloden and Cancellara. Gesink and VDB also on the improve. The best sprinters also ride the TDF.

Rujano and Sastre have not achieved much in recent times while Kreuziger is only a top 10 rider. I would not argue about the quality of the others you mentioned. I don't think the Giro is a stronger race re the competitors, just a different one. I though the Giro was the race of the year last year but I still enjoyed the Tour. Both have their share of drama and controversy. I would just like more interesting stages in the Tour. The Giro bests the Tour in that regard.

I also agree that the Giro deserves better media coverage. Most people outside of the cycling world still know what the TDF is. Outside of Italy I am not sure the same applies to the Giro. Maybe the Giro organisers need to be more aggressive promoting their event ?

 

[FignonLeGrand]

I love the Giro, I love the Tour, they are both great. It doesn't always have to be either-or.

well said. Id love it if the Vuelta was also interesting and shown with decent TV coverage, but it isnt

Why do we have to always draw who/ what is the best comparisons? Giro and Tour are quite different in their characteristics based on time of year, geography and status, etc etc. Surely that's all for the good.

I feel this is also why the Tour of California doesn't really spark, don't try and take on the Giro find your own space and reason.

 

[Granville57]

Nice article. My favorite line:

If the Tour has the best set design and stage lighting, then the Giro surely has the best script.

Can't wait for 2011 Giro.
It does seem insulting that they have laid the time frame for the ToC over the Giro, with the ToC only getting longer over the years. But at least I don't have to listen to Paul and Phil cover the Giro.

It certainly does warrant more respect from the media but perhaps with those riders excluded from the Tour this year, the Giro will make for a great showcase.

I do hope they abandon that silly idea of starting it in Washington, D.C. one day. As this article beautifully illustrates, there is no shortage of breathtaking terrain in Italy.

 

[QbixNorway]

The only thing I don't like about the Giro is that in terms of big stars it's suffering a bit because of the Tour. The GC riders can't except to do well in both (certainly not win both), so they will have to pick one rather than the other. And for most that will mean that they will ride the Tour instead of the Giro.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

And as i have said, this year the lineup of Menchov, Nibali, Rodriguez, Anton, Sastre, Rujano, Kreuziger, Scarponi seems to surpass Schleck, Samu, and then ummm Gesink and ummmm well Soler and maybe Jurgen "never won even a stage" VandenBroek.
**********************************************************

If I remember correctly, you were the one, talking up Sanchez's chances in this year's Tour. What about Basso and Evans, Kiserlovski, Vino, Schleck brothers, Hesjedal,Leipheimer and Kloden and Cancellara. Gesink and VDB also on the improve. The best sprinters also ride the TDF.

Rujano and Sastre have not achieved much in recent times while Kreuziger is only a top 10 rider.

How many of the list you give are more than 'just a top 10 rider' at this point in their career? Basso, Evans, Andy Schleck. That's it.

Rujano is talented enough to win the Giro, but poorly managed and difficult to work with. Sastre is a GT winner. Yes, I know Vino is too, but Sastre's win is in a Tour not a Vuelta, more recent and not before a ban. Cancellara is not a GT rider unless the parcours is a joke. If you watch the Tour to see the sprints, then may I recommend the Tour Down Under?

The Tour has got all the best window dressing (the sprinters, the time triallists, the pomp and circumstance), but in terms of genuine GT-winning potential riders, it's amazingly thin without Contador or Menchov. Do any of us really believe that Jürgen van den Broeck or Ryder Hesjedal are capable of being GT winners?

 

[Havetts]

Do any of us really believe that Jürgen van den Broeck or Ryder Hesjedal are capable of being GT winners?

I'd say Jurgen vd Broeck sure has potential to get on the podium, im less certain about hesjedal but he rode a good last week last tour ending 4th on the Tourmalet.

I'd like to add Gesink to that list of more than just a top 10 rider, in before people calling me a fanboy though .

 

[The Hitch]

I'd like to add Gesink to that list of more than just a top 10 rider, in before people calling me a fanboy though .

As i was looking through the Tour parcors i was nodding my head thinking that Gesink may yet get that top 5 place.

Then i saw that stage 20 was a 40 k itt

Better luck next year Bobby

 

[Havetts]

As i was looking through the Tour parcors i was nodding my head thinking that Gesink may yet get that top 5 place.

Then i saw that stage 20 was a 40 k itt

Better luck next year Bobby

Well, two out of last years top 5 wont be there, atleast I assume Contador wont ride it. Yet those 4 MtF's are all above 2000 meters if Im correct, thats the altitude where Gesink really starts to shine, just like in the TdSuisse last year at the Albulapass .

Plus I really hate that Gesink has such a stupid urge to descent over carefully or find a hole in the road to break his wrist or get a hole in his knee in.

 

[michaeld]

If the TdF was in May, and the Giro in July, everything would change.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'd say Jurgen vd Broeck sure has potential to get on the podium, im less certain about hesjedal but he rode a good last week last tour ending 4th on the Tourmalet.

I'd like to add Gesink to that list of more than just a top 10 rider, in before people calling me a fanboy though .

But my point was, who of them are GT WINNERS. VDB isn't. Hesjedal definitely isn't. The Tour is full of guys who can get a top 10, maybe sneak a top 5 or even podium. But there aren't many guys who are genuine contenders to beat Andy Schleck for the win.

The Giro may not have the absolute elites like Schleck, but it has a lot more people who are genuine contenders to win.

Gesink can't win the Tour. Yet. If he does it will either be a miracle ride or because of injuries and suspensions. He may be a guy who can win it on merit in a year or two, but not yet.

The Tour often has a deeper field than the Giro, but surprisingly few of those riders are actually capable of winning - but because so many of them are capable of high GC places, and the placements are so important to sponsors and teams, it encourages very conservative riding. You see much more of guys outside the top 3 starting the attacks in the Giro. In the Tour you see Garmin getting on the front to pull back the break because Horner and Plaza are threatening Hesjedal's 10th place. 10th! The Tour's top 10 is often filled with people who got into a good position in week 1 and then just rode to defend it, following attacks and swallowing breakaways.

The Giro has 10 guys who really want to win. The Tour has 30 guys who really don't want to lose.

 

[hfer07]

Very nice article-I just hope that Top riders some day can claim publicly to skip the tour & select the Giro as their main goal for the season. the race is getting better & more exiting than the other GTs, so I wouldn't mind if the full attention is rightfully aimed at the Giro. I also think is the proper way to challenge the TDF organizers to get creative and start looking for new approaches to ensure a more vibrant race.

 

[Ryaguas]

Very nice article-I just hope that Top riders some day can claim publicly to skip the tour & select the Giro as their main goal for the season. the race is getting better & more exiting than the other GTs, so I wouldn't mind if the full attention is rightfully aimed at the Giro. I also think is the proper way to challenge the TDF organizers to get creative and start looking for new approaches to ensure a more vibrant race.

Well I think that Purito is the 1st to do so... He said publicly that his main targets for this season were Classics, Giro and Vuelta... He pass Le Tour cuz the field doesnt suit him... Great for Purito! mmmmmm and I could remember that Contador said that one year He would pass Le Tour to focus in classics, Giro and Vuelta cuz Le Tour isnt everything... maybe he doesnt want to have the same "fame" that Andrew and certain Uniballer have...

 

[rhubroma]

Naturally I like to see a nice pitch for the Giro. And to me it seems uncontestable that the "script" at the Italian race has long since by far been the superior of the two.

However, to be fair to the Tour, it's still bigger in the sport and races during the better month of July, when many folks are about to go on summer vacation. There is also a romantic side to le Grand Boucle, which the Giro doesn't rival.

While it isn't true that the best Italian stage racers don't value it as those form the other nations do and they even admit to the French race's superior overall international status. They do have a greater dilemma, however, since the Giro for any Italian stage race champion holds a place equal to that of the Tour, yet because the former takes place before the latter means that it is very difficult for them to be able to give 100% to both events. This has always been an Italian "handycap" of sorts, which has made any cyclist to win both events in one season truly a special kind of champion. We all know the ones that did, as well as the ones that didn't.

 

[movingtarget]

How many of the list you give are more than 'just a top 10 rider' at this point in their career? Basso, Evans, Andy Schleck. That's it.

Rujano is talented enough to win the Giro, but poorly managed and difficult to work with. Sastre is a GT winner. Yes, I know Vino is too, but Sastre's win is in a Tour not a Vuelta, more recent and not before a ban. Cancellara is not a GT rider unless the parcours is a joke. If you watch the Tour to see the sprints, then may I recommend the Tour Down Under?

The Tour has got all the best window dressing (the sprinters, the time triallists, the pomp and circumstance), but in terms of genuine GT-winning potential riders, it's amazingly thin without Contador or Menchov. Do any of us really believe that Jürgen van den Broeck or Ryder Hesjedal are capable of being GT winners?

I watch the Tour for all of the competitions within it. The sprinting is not as dull as the KOM competition. I mentioned Cancellara not as a potential winner but a quality rider and stage winner. Can you honestly see Sastre or Rujano making the podium or even the top 5 of the Giro at this stage. Anton looked good in the Vuelta until he crashed but could he do the same in the TDF......no. Barring crashes or illness I can't see anyone winning the Giro apart from Menchov or Nibali because they're the best allrounders. Rodriguez cannot time trial so Anton or Scarponi for third then a big gap to everyone else. Similar to the TDF field with 3 or 4 riders standing out above the others. But not inferior to the Giro. Mixture of quality veterans, hungry young riders and proven winners. Both should be good. Even the Vuelta was a good race last year although Anton's crash put a dampener on things.