Teams & Riders The Great Big Transfers and Rumours Thread

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If Storer and HIndley are leaving DSM ...who does that team have left to win races?
I guess Bardet and Bol...

Søren Kragh Andersen is a good rider that has had a quiet year.

Benoot is a decent rider, who was good at Lotto but hasnt really made any major results so far at DSM.

Then they have a few youngsters that may develop. Arensman, Brenner, Leknessund and Van Wilder. Dainese maybe.

To answer your question they dont have many at the moment that is just gonna win many races, but perhaps riders that can chip in with a couple of wins here and there in the future if they develop.
 
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Hindley, Higuita and Haller to Bora. The age of Mann is over, the time of the H riders has come.
Haller an Politt are friends from the Katusha days, a nice addition to their cobbles squad.
Hindley and Wilco on the same team again, that's gonna be interesting.

There is a danger that Bora end up with too many gc riders who are on a similar level, but with no clear cut leaders. That could become a problem.
 
Haller an Politt are friends from the Katusha days, a nice addition to their cobbles squad.
Hindley and Wilco on the same team again, that's gonna be interesting.

There is a danger that Bora end up with too many gc riders who are on a similar level, but with no clear cut leaders. That could become a problem.
Hmm, perhaps they are aiming to have several riders podium in the Most Top Tens Without a Win competition as it quietly gains more prestige on the World Tour :)
 
Hmm, perhaps they are aiming to have several riders podium in the Most Top Tens Without a Win competition as it quietly gains more prestige on the World Tour :)
They already seemed to pursue that goal in 2018: https://forum.cyclingnews.com/threads/the-amazing-race-to-most-top10-without-a-win.33846/page-5#post-2306375

There is a danger that Bora end up with too many gc riders who are on a similar level, but with no clear cut leaders. That could become a problem.
Or an advantage.

If you can't have an absolute elite climber, the next best thing is to have many good climbers. It's still better to have everyone riding for themselves and not helping each other than to have your only good climber to crash out or underdeliver. And out of many good climbers, there's always a good chance someone will overdeliver. If you only back one guy, the chance for that is much less.
 
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Harper is staying at Jumbo, Pfingsten and G. Bennett (UAE, Bahrain and Qhubeka in the race for his signature) are out. One more free space in the team and they're looking for an all rounder type.
Cofidis want Dan Martin
Source: WF
 
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Haller an Politt are friends from the Katusha days, a nice addition to their cobbles squad.
Hindley and Wilco on the same team again, that's gonna be interesting.

There is a danger that Bora end up with too many gc riders who are on a similar level, but with no clear cut leaders. That could become a problem.
Ineos has won a lot of races with multiple leaders, with multiple riders on the podium in a few races.

Tour de la Provence, Catalunya (whole podium), Romandie and Dauphine for example this year.

Perhaps it is an advantage to have great strength in numbers in those one-week races. It is usually a pretty close race and seconds you are fighting for in those races. If you have 3 riders in the top 10 going into the last stage, it can be pretty good if it is close.
 
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But Ineos won those races mostly because their GC guys were better in TT than competition, or like in Provance they had the strongest guy. They've never played the number games in those races you mention, they've tried in Tirreno and Pogi and Wout destroyed them even without strong teams behind them. I don't think numbers are enough to beat the real top guys if the parcours are difficult enough, only on easy routes and some one day races.

IMO Bora is desperate to get a superstar rider. They are used to having one of the top stars since they've got into the WT, and now they look to other teams and see Pog, Rog, MVDP, WVA, Pidcock, Eddy junior... That's why they're trying with Palzer who can maybe be the next Rogla, Cian is maybe the next Remco and if they make him cyclocross he might become some crazy hybrid between MvdP and Remco. They are following trends. It surprised me how they went so quickly from their plan to have the best German rider in every discipline to just get everyone who's good and available (and almost no German rider among them). But yeah, they'll have crazy depth next season, only second to Ineos and maybe DQS. Will it bring them the success they want? I guess we'll see...
 
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But Ineos won those races mostly because their GC guys were better in TT than competition, or like in Provance they had the strongest guy. They've never played the number games in those races you mention, they've tried in Tirreno and Pogi and Wout destroyed them even without strong teams behind them. I don't think numbers are enough to beat the real top guys if the parcours are difficult enough, only on easy routes and some one day races.

IMO Bora is desperate to get a superstar rider. They are used to having one of the top stars since they've got into the WT, and now they look to other teams and see Pog, Rog, MVDP, WVA, Pidcock, Eddy junior... That's why they're trying with Palzer who can maybe be the next Rogla, Cian is maybe the next Remco and if they make him cyclocross he might become some crazy hybrid between MvdP and Remco. They are following trends. It surprised me how they went so quickly from their plan to have the best German rider in every discipline to just get everyone who's good and available (and almost no German rider among them). But yeah, they'll have crazy depth next season, only second to Ineos and maybe DQS. Will it bring them the success they want? I guess we'll see...
Agree with everything.

Would add that not only does Skyneos have strong time trialers as GC guys, they also have them as helpers, and in DQS the strong time trialers and work horses are the backbone of the team as well. Bora has a few, well, Schachmann and Politt, but not on that level and if you have that many good climbers they will want to have a spot on the team. Having numbers in climbers without a clear plan and hoping for it all to work out sounds mildly convincing to me. Of course it can work out if someone overachieves, but I prefer a clear plan and role for every rider on the team.
Maybe they have a clear plan, but if they do it's not easy to see at this point.
 
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But Ineos won those races mostly because their GC guys were better in TT than competition, or like in Provance they had the strongest guy. They've never played the number games in those races you mention
It's not about playing the number games in a scale of one race, it's about playing the number games in a scale of the whole season. Having many good riders on a team means that it's easier to have someone good enough to fight for results in every race you ride. And by giving multiple riders chances to ride for themselves, you can evaluate them and have some flexibility to pick the right one to lead a GT instead of being stuck with a potentially underperforming leader for the entire year.

I've probably seen "many good riders" tactics win races more often than backfire in the past. Most riders are professionals and they'll end up working for a team mate who they see is stronger than them at a given race. Having an entire team built around one rider only works if it's someone as strong and consistent as Pogacar but obviosuly there wasn't anyone like that available on the market for Bora to sign.
 
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I don’t think that Bora’s transfer strategy is that mysterious or surprising.

Sagan is leaving, taking with him his buddies, and leaving behind him a lot of money to spend. Ackermann is also leaving, freeing up a much smaller but still meaningful pile of money. So they have money to spend. But transfers require both money to spend and someone to spend it on. The latter part is the problem. How many riders who are top 3 or top 5 in their sub discipline of the sport are available?

Well, there’s Sam Bennett. So they hired him and spent some money on support riders for him… and they still have a load of money left over. I suspect that if a top3 or even top5 climber, TTist, GC guy, hilly classics rider or cobbled rider were available they would have made a play for him too and just spent the rest of the Sagan money on one guy. In their absence they instead take a punt on a number of riders who have shown talent but may or may not make it to the very top, the likes of Higuita and Hindley.

As for the German (or more precisely Germanophone) team identity, they have most of the best German and Austrian riders already. The ones they don’t have or don’t have any more are leaving for a reason or are tied up elsewhere. They can’t guarantee a crop of WT ready new talents every year either. In general they have done a pretty good job of cornering the market in their home region and I don’t really know who else they could reasonably bring in.
 
I don’t think that Bora’s transfer strategy is that mysterious or surprising.

Sagan is leaving, taking with him his buddies, and leaving behind him a lot of money to spend. Ackermann is also leaving, freeing up a much smaller but still meaningful pile of money. So they have money to spend. But transfers require both money to spend and someone to spend it on. The latter part is the problem. How many riders who are top 3 or top 5 in their sub discipline of the sport are available?

Well, there’s Sam Bennett. So they hired him and spent some money on support riders for him… and they still have a load of money left over. I suspect that if a top3 or even top5 climber, TTist, GC guy, hilly classics rider or cobbled rider were available they would have made a play for him too and just spent the rest of the Sagan money on one guy. In their absence they instead take a punt on a number of riders who have shown talent but may or may not make it to the very top, the likes of Higuita and Hindley.

As for the German (or more precisely Germanophone) team identity, they have most of the best German and Austrian riders already. The ones they don’t have or don’t have any more are leaving for a reason or are tied up elsewhere. They can’t guarantee a crop of WT ready new talents every year either. In general they have done a pretty good job of cornering the market in their home region and I don’t really know who else they could reasonably bring in.
Well, they can't just buy themselves a Pogacar, that's sure. (Well, maybe with Sagan plus entourage off they could :)).
No, but the thing is I thought they were going all in for the Tour, which makes sense, because they have German sponsors and all Germans care about is the Tour - well, maybe, after Corona, they will also care about mountainbike and guys like Pidcock and van der Poel... but well, I would have thought they were going for a Tour podium. And then you cannot just assemble guys like Hindley and Higuita and Palzer and hope.
Instead you should, in my opinion, actually look for young extremely talented guys, other Uijtdebroeks, in case Cian doesn't work out, or maybe slightly older, 19, 20, 21. They do have some money released and they have good structures, good equipment, a financially stable situation - they are not Ineos or UAE, but they have some factors to speak for them. Also I would look out for a really good, experienced road captain and good work horses for different kind of situations - at least one other time trialist in addition to Politt, a great descender... such guys. Guys that can be so important as helpers. Instead they now seem to have a bunch of guys who all have more or less the same profile, well, two profiles: pure climbers, and climbers who are also very decent time trialists. Many of them really, really good - but none extremely good. Also most of them are the same age, 24-28, a really good age for a cyclist, but I would prefer a bigger variety with guys who are exciting because you don't know their ceiling, yet, and one or two GT riders of 32+ who have really seen it all.

But maybe they think with Pogacar, Roglic and Ineos a podium is luck anyway, so why not gamble instead of putting a clear team together?? Or try to fight on all fronts, collect points, and seriously go for GC in two years when you have developed your riders (Outofthepants) further...?

They certainly know more about it than I do. I'm just trying to understand.
 
Instead you should, in my opinion, actually look for young extremely talented guys, other Uijtdebroeks, in case Cian doesn't work out, or maybe slightly older, 19, 20, 21. They do have some money released and they have good structures, good equipment, a financially stable situation - they are not Ineos or UAE, but they have some factors to speak for them. Also I would look out for a really good, experienced road captain and good work horses for different kind of situations - at least one other time trialist in addition to Politt, a great descender... such guys. Guys that can be so important as helpers. Instead they now seem to have a bunch of guys who all have more or less the same profile, well, two profiles: pure climbers, and climbers who are also very decent time trialists. Many of them really, really good - but none extremely good. Also most of them are the same age, 24-28, a really good age for a cyclist, but I would prefer a bigger variety with guys who are exciting because you don't know their ceiling, yet, and one or two GT riders of 32+ who have really seen it all.
So you want to build a team comprised of very young riders who will be too young to lead the team in 2022 with experienced road captains who will probably retire or at least be well past their prime by the time they young riders reach their prime? ;)
To me, going for the best riders available on the market seems like a better strategy.

There's no justification for Bora to turn into a development team basically. It's really a lottery who of the very young riders will turn out to be real deal in the future. And then it's another lottery if those who do will not be poached by a richer team by the time they're ready to start delivering big time. So no point in stuffing your team with u-21 riders if you have the budget to go for good riders in their prime IMO. They already have Uijtdebroeks + plenty of u-25 riders with a room to improve. No need to turn yourself into a kindergarten. It's diminishing returns really because everybody goes for the most promising youngsters first so the more of these you have, the lesser avergare predicted value they'll have for the future. Also by going that way you compromise your immediate results- so why do that if you don't have to?

I also think Bora is unjustly accused of going only for the same type of riders. I think they have a very balanced team for 2022. They've hired Bennett FFS so it's not only climbers. They're also already capable of lining up a fantastic support team. There's Politt for the flat stages, but also Haller, a great signing, underrated. Postlberger is not bad too. And then you have Schachmann and Kamna for the climber-roleur type. Add all the climbers and they have a potential support team on par with almost every other team in WT. Also Van Poppel and Archbold to lead Bennett out. Not only climbers.
Between their climbers there's a decent amount of variety too. You have Hindley more of a pure climber type and then you have Kelderman who can rely on TT and you have Higuita who has a great sprint for a climber and should do well in classics and reduced sprints.
Only one team can win TdF at a time so assembling a team that can rack up a bunch of results in one week races, GT stages and top10's doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. And not every GT winner is a next Pogacar. Maybe between Hindley, Higuita, Buchmann, Kelderman etc. you will have a next Hesjedal or Geoghegan Hart? It doesn't hurt to try.
 

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