The latest Astana affair

[bianchigirl]

As reported by Ressiot in Equipe http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2009/20091013_132848_une-nouvelle-affaire-astana.html

So perhaps the first doping case from the TdF 2009 will be a very big fish - seems a Parisian lab are analysing used syringes dumped by the Astana team.

Perhaps OCLAESP can do what the UCI have signally failed to do - I rather like the fact that Astana could come a cropper for dumping medical waste and endangering public health.

Now, can I hear all the acolytes cry 'French Conspiracy!'

 

[Ferminal]

SSDD, yet another French Conspiracy.

 

[Sprocket01]

So perhaps the first doping case from the TdF 2009 will be a very big fish - seems a Parisian lab are analysing used syringes dumped by the Astana team.

It certainly sounds like a fishing expedition.

I think they would have found something by now if they have been looking since July. That's probably why they've leaked the story of finding syringes rather than finding a substance, in the hope some mud will still stick regardless. Astana was the bogeyman team.

Of course, teams use injections all the time for vitamins during the tours. Greg Lemond was once given iron injections during the Giro. [Edited]

I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

[rolfrae]

The syringes in question were put in bins provided by the Tour organisers for the disposal of medical waste (Google translation)? If that's correct then surely the team wouldn't be stupid enough to dump anything incriminating?

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

SSDD, yet another French Conspiracy.

SSDD - More cheating from Lance and the Hog

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

I imagine they will be investigating what was in the syringes, as well as who the syringes went into.

Of course even if they find EPO in the syringes and Lance's DNA all over the needles it:

- isn't a proper test is just research so unsanctionable
- is a conspiracy, witchhunt, evidence planted by French etc

we all know the rest.

I can't face discussing that bullsh*t until the end of time.

 

[Ferminal]

The syringes in question were put in bins provided by the Tour organisers for the disposal of medical waste (Google translation)? If that's correct then surely the team wouldn't be stupid enough to dump anything incriminating?

That's what I read, in which case to come out and say they're specifically looking into by-products of Astana's medical program (no one elses) makes it all the more suspicious.

 

[RhodriM]

The syringes in question were put in bins provided by the Tour organisers for the disposal of medical waste (Google translation)? If that's correct then surely the team wouldn't be stupid enough to dump anything incriminating?

Those were my thoughts too.

 

[bianchigirl]

Or perhaps they've looked into all the others and only Astana's syringes are suspicious. Since the UCI have all but admitted they gave Astana preferential treatment during the race I'm sure Boss Hog felt absolutely confident that they could dump whatever they liked without it getting into the wrong hands.

 

[python]

The syringes in question were put in bins provided by the Tour organisers for the disposal of medical waste (Google translation)? If that's correct then surely the team wouldn't be stupid enough to dump anything incriminating?

remember there were two teams within one astana and they did not communicate very well.

 

[Bala Verde]

I thought the use of syringes was officially prohibited (date?) because of its association with doping. Only in extreme cases, like severe dehydration directly after a race and with risks to someone's health, doctors are allowed to hook someone up.

I remember reading an article about QST a couple of years back that they had to resort to gobbling down a god awful amount of vitamin pills/tablets to stay healthy and get all the necessary nutrients. They had done that specifically because any vitamin injection - easier and faster procedure - was illegal.

There was also a Dutch athletics guy, Simon Vroemen, who in first instance got suspended for using the method for re-hydration straight after a race. Later that was overturned, because his doctor could 'prove' that it was medically necessary at that point (for whatever that's worth).

So if that's true, disposing syringes is already highly suspect.

Although I am quite skeptical that they would dump incriminating material in a bin labeled 'Aidez à sauver la planète'...

 

[aarnold517]

I'm just getting ready for the finger-pointing game that will go on if anything incriminating is found on the syringes. You know that lance will claim they were alberto's syringes and alberto will claim they were lance's syringes until finally one of lance's trusty domestiques sacrifices himself and proclaims them his own syringes (lance's DNA on them and all)

 

[Cobblestones]

I thought the use of syringes was officially prohibited (date?) because of its association with doping. Only in extreme cases, like severe dehydration directly after a race and with risks to someone's health, doctors are allowed to hook someone up.

I remember reading an article about QST a couple of years back that they had to resort to gobbling down a god awful amount of vitamin pills/tablets to stay healthy and get all the necessary nutrients. They had done that specifically because any vitamin injection - easier and faster procedure - was illegal.

There was also a Dutch athletics guy, Simon Vroemen, who in first instance got suspended for using the method for re-hydration straight after a race. Later that was overturned, because his doctor could 'prove' that it was medically necessary at that point (for whatever that's worth).

So if that's true, disposing syringes is already highly suspect.

Although I am quite skeptical that they would dump incriminating material in a bin labeled 'Aidez à sauver la planète'...

I thought only IV's were banned and subcutaneous injections are fine (as long as it's not prohibited substances). Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, what about peroral or topical administration? I think they should check certain riders for suppositories at the start.

 

[tubularglue]

i thought it was blamed on one of the staff's sisters grandmother. She is diabetic

what can you do about chemicals which are not yet banned ?

 

[**Uru**]

This is a joke.

As has been said, the containers were provided by the ASO to dispose (or account for) medical waste. If Astana or some of its riders, or Lance in particular, were using doping products, they would have to be completely stupid to put them anywhere near this container. I seriously doubt the use of a needle in and of itself is grounds for a cheating complaint. In the movie Hell on Wheels which followed T-Mobile at the 2003 Tour, the use of needles appeared commonplace. As has also been said, they have had this evidence for 3 months. More than enough time to run it through a complete battery of tests. Since it came from Astana, it would or should have taken priority because Astana had so many riders in the top 10 of the GC. Yes, yes, you may say UCI is corrupt and they would not do anything about it. But these materials were collected by the ASO and the French officials who could, and more properly should, have ordered testing on their own.

I see it as follows. If there were doping products in the Astana waste container, then UCI, ASO, AFLD, AND the French authorities are all corrupt or neglegent in their duties. They were all partners and all hold equal responsibility. If the UCI was standing in their way, then the other parties should have put their foot down then. To bring this stuff up now in the form of a pi$$ing match in the press makes the sport look like a circus. Next year, they might as well make the lead rider wear a yellow clown nose, the KOM wear a red one, and the points leader wear a green one.

 

[thehog]

Shocking !!!

PARIS — French prosecutors have reportedly launched a preliminary investigation against the Astana cycling team to examine syringes belonging to the squad during this year's Tour de France.

L'Equipe newspaper reported Tuesday on its Web site that prosecutors opened the case after "the discovery of several suspicious syringes in a container given by organizers to all the teams in order to collect the medical waste."

Tour de France winner Alberto Contador and third-place Lance Armstrong rode with Astana on this year's Tour. The Spaniard is still under contract with the Kazakh-funded team while the Texan left to launch his own squad, RadioShack.

According to L'Equipe, the syringes will be analyzed by a forensic lab called Toxlab, which is responsible for determining their content.

Gilbert Pepin, a doctor at the lab, was not available for comment and did not immediately respond to an e-mail from The Associated Press.

While there were no positive tests at this year's Tour, authorities did seize drugs that the French anti-doping agency's scientific adviser said raised questions.

The drugs — which include treatments for diabetes, high blood pressure and convulsions suffered by manic-depressives — are not banned but are "incongruous" in top-level athletes, said Professor Michel Rieu last week.

Rieu declined to say which teams the substances had been taken from, saying that it was part of a judicial investigation.

 

[Beech Mtn]

That wouldn't be a bad way for one person to set up somebody they hated - have doping needles put in the official trash which would ordinarilly be only used for needles from vitamin shots and legal injections.

 

[Mellow Velo]

No way.
I know fuel costs have sky rocketted, but I'm sure one of the team lackeys will have been doing the 200km round trip, at the dead of night, to get rid of the incriminating stuff.
Maybe JB and LA have "spiked" these syringes with Bertie's DNA?
Now, that conspiracy theory could have more mileage.

 

[tubularglue]

(dna) proof
dollars * who is holding the most

 

[Beech Mtn]

The drugs — which include treatments for diabetes, high blood pressure and convulsions suffered by manic-depressives — are not banned but are "incongruous" in top-level athletes, said Professor Michel Rieu last week.

I believe Rieu may eventually want to re-think this part. It sounds like a lot of the doping products wreak havoc on rider's minds, leading to side effects of depression and manic depression. A guy could medically need the M/D meds after all. Can you get a TUE for such things without raising suspicions?

 

[Race Radio]

It certainly sounds like a fishing expedition.

I think they would have found something by now if they have been looking since July. That's probably why they've leaked the story of finding syringes rather than finding a substance, in the hope some mud will still stick regardless. Astana was the bogeyman team.

Of course, teams use injections all the time for vitamins during the tours. Greg Lemond was once seen shooting up during a stage.

I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Most of your posts are fishing expeditions. In desperation for attention you write anything to get the thread off topic and instead focused on your psychosis.

Lemond was never "seen shooting up during a stage", just another of your lies invented for attention.

 

[Sprocket01]

PARIS — French prosecutors have reportedly launched a preliminary investigation against the Astana cycling team to examine syringes belonging to the squad during this year's Tour de France.

L'Equipe newspaper reported Tuesday on its Web site that prosecutors opened the case after "the discovery of several suspicious syringes in a container given by organizers to all the teams in order to collect the medical waste."

Tour de France winner Alberto Contador and third-place Lance Armstrong rode with Astana on this year's Tour. The Spaniard is still under contract with the Kazakh-funded team while the Texan left to launch his own squad, RadioShack.

According to L'Equipe, the syringes will be analyzed by a forensic lab called Toxlab, which is responsible for determining their content.

Gilbert Pepin, a doctor at the lab, was not available for comment and did not immediately respond to an e-mail from The Associated Press.

While there were no positive tests at this year's Tour, authorities did seize drugs that the French anti-doping agency's scientific adviser said raised questions.

The drugs — which include treatments for diabetes, high blood pressure and convulsions suffered by manic-depressives — are not banned but are "incongruous" in top-level athletes, said Professor Michel Rieu last week.

Rieu declined to say which teams the substances had been taken from, saying that it was part of a judicial investigation.

Thanks for that.

It seems it doesn't get any better on the translation. They really are fishing through bags the teams were purposely given for medical waste and trying to get them on that. More special treatment for Astana no doubt.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

It takes less than 24 hours to run standard blood screens for drugs. The process should be the same for any type of screening, most of the delay is due to the required multiple levels of review.

I have been told it take approximately the same 24 hour period to run DNA testing, however, the standard seems to be three weeks once the lab actually starts the process.

While this news is interesting, it should be even more so when and if they release the result (no matter what they are). I expect the hear La paid them off, LA set up Contador, Contador set up LA, another team set up Astana, or Astana set up another team.

 

[Sprocket01]

"LeMond had a second injection of iron and started feeling stronger"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1998/tourdefrance/tourdefrancearchive/tour2.html

"Then there was the incident from the Giro d’Italia in that same year, when LeMond was struggling. In front of a VeloNews reporter, LeMond received three injections — of iron, he insists, nothing illegal. Nevertheless, his performance improved dramatically."

http://www.mensjournal.com/greg-lemond-vs-the-world

 

[sherer]

i suspect this will be another non story like the extra testing the ASO did