The money men behind USPS

[TrackCynic]

If we see a confession from LA, what will the legal repercussions be for him and, more importantly, the wealthy scum who were behind this win-at-all-costs-so-we-can-make-even-more-money-out-of-fans strategy? I'm looking at Weisel, USAC's Johnson, Tailwind, Furst, Disson, Vittoria.

Make no mistake about it, Lance was just the tool by which these anonymous guys made millions of dollars, allegedly bribed UCI and go-knows did what else.

Does anyone have a view if a) these people will be publicly named and shamed and b) will the USPS go after them in courts to get the sponsorship $ back and c) is USAC a house of cards waiting to fall?

 

[hfer07]

will NIKE be held accountable for it too? just a thought....

 

[mewmewmew13]

There are so many freaking threads going....

MODS can this be added/merged into official LA part 2??

 

[DirtyWorks]

If we see a confession from LA, what will the legal repercussions be for him and, more importantly, the wealthy scum who were behind this win-at-all-costs-so-we-can-make-even-more-money-out-of-fans strategy? I'm looking at Weisel, USAC's Johnson, Tailwind

Explain to me what takes USAC's place. USA Cycling has a government granted monopoly to eliminate alternative federations and operate the USACDF slush fund with impunity. The USAC members haven't cared for the last 20 years, so what will happen now to change it?

Unless you are in Oregon, there's a vast and uncoordinated number of races through some alternative cycling federations in the U.S. If Wiesel and his personal assistant Johnson have anything to say about it, OBRA would be gone too. Just like the ACA in Colorado.

Hopefully, there is a major law enforcement effort to follow that gets everyone at CSE/Tailwind in serious trouble. Best case scenario is Wiesel gets felony prison time for something and will be running the federation from jail. It's exactly that bad.

 

[TrackCynic]

With respect Mew, this thread isn't about LA specifically, but about USPS, USAC and the whole "business" of cycling. The problem with merging this into any LA thread is that this subject gets lost in all the LA-specific stuff and we lose sight of the fact that behind this mess is a bunch of businessmen who are still involved in the sport. Once the whole LA thing blows over and people are bored of the LA threads there is a danger we will not get to the core problem.

 

[TrackCynic]

Maybe disbanding USAC isn't the solution, but surely there has to be some accountability and investigation into the huge conflicts of interest and remove those individuals who are Weisel cronies. It seems the US isn't the only place with this problem; sounds like Australia has had similar problems.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Chortle.

If I wanted to launch a vast conspiracy to 'get even more money out of fans' I would probably pick a sport where the fans actually pay something, beyond the odd discretionary merchandise purchase.

 

[SpeedWay]

will the USPS go after them in courts to get the sponsorship $ back

When the USPS train gave them a little north of a 3:1 ROI it's gonna take a whole lot of haters sitting on the court to feel sorry for the USPS being so called "defrauded".

 

[TrackCynic]

The bike industry is worth something like $6 billion per year. TV rights, merchandising, sports equipment deals and athlete representation are worth a hell of lot of money to backers. Also, cycling is just one sport these guys have raped: skiing and ice skating are 2 others I know they have control over (others?) There aren't doing it out of the love of cycling, that's for sure.

Also, cycling was ripe to be taken advantage of - other already saturated sports were not worth their attention and cycling had a new great white hope in LA and the Tailwind team.

 

[TrackCynic]

Where does the 3:1 ROI come from?

 

[SpeedWay]

Where does the 3:1 ROI come from?

Many sources. Here's one over a year old just so you don't think it's a "fanboy fantasy" in wake of the recent earth shattering events that has upped the circle jerk club membership by around 25%. Pretty disappointing numbers considering how hard all the anonymous sources worked to pimp ole Oprah.

http://www.denverpost.com/outdoors/ci_17102119

 

[Benotti69]

Many sources. Here's one over a year old just so you don't think it's a "fanboy fantasy" in wake of the recent earth shattering events that has upped the circle jerk club membership by around 25%. Pretty disappointing numbers considering how hard all the anonymous sources worked to pimp ole Oprah.

http://www.denverpost.com/outdoors/ci_17102119

You are doing great at not sounding bitter about OneBallWonder finally admitting he lied to those stupid enough to follow the cancer shield wielding piehole piper

 

[D-Queued]

Where does the 3:1 ROI come from?

Armstrong’s attorney Tim Herman told the NY Times in October that the sponsor got a return on investment of three times the contract’s value.

"You have an annual return on investment of 320 percent," Herman said. "I hit my knees every night hoping someone defrauds me like that."

Given Herman's lying track record - didn't he just tell us Lance didn't offer to settle with SCA for $1m, hadn't approached Tygart, was not going to confess... - you know that there is no truth behind this statement.

And, that is the real knee slapper.

Dave.

 

[mewmewmew13]

With respect Mew, this thread isn't about LA specifically, but about USPS, USAC and the whole "business" of cycling. The problem with merging this into any LA thread is that this subject gets lost in all the LA-specific stuff and we lose sight of the fact that behind this mess is a bunch of businessmen who are still involved in the sport. Once the whole LA thing blows over and people are bored of the LA threads there is a danger we will not get to the core problem.

Yes agree..thnx. I do think there are other threads rattling around here full of this same topic...just so this doesn't get lost with the thousands of new lance threads popping up.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Maybe disbanding USAC isn't the solution, but surely there has to be some accountability and investigation into the huge conflicts of interest and remove those individuals who are Weisel cronies. It seems the US isn't the only place with this problem; sounds like Australia has had similar problems.

What is there to investigate? Weisel runs his organization the way he wants, within the confines of the UCI/IOC. There's nothing illegal about that.

As for conflicts of interest, it's a monopoly. Thom asks his buddies to be on the Board of Directors for USAC. If you make a big enough donation you get a seat on the USACDF Board of Directors. Ask Thom about skimming commissions on that donation.

Take away Wiesel's cronies and there's nobody left at the Executive level. Well, maybe Och would return?

To be fair, much further down the organization I believe there are some good people doing good work and could do the right things. But, that's not Wiesel's roadmap.

 

[Oldman]

What is there to investigate? Weisel runs his organization the way he wants, within the confines of the UCI/IOC. There's nothing illegal about that.

As for conflicts of interest, it's a monopoly. Thom asks his buddies to be on the Board of Directors for USAC. If you make a big enough donation you get a seat on the USACDF Board of Directors. Ask Thom about skimming commissions on that donation.

Take away Wiesel's cronies and there's nobody left at the Executive level. Well, maybe Och would return?

To be fair, much further down the organization I believe there are some good people doing good work and could do the right things. But, that's not Wiesel's roadmap.

TW is a wealthier, more venal version of what he groomed Lance to be. He uses USAC as a farm club and buffer to the UCI; nothing more. He still helps some of the most suspect US Master's squads with sponsorships and probably still gets wood when he and his buddies ride with whatever pros owe him a favor. Beyond that he's got to wonder how someone with his net worth got into this situation.
Watching the world discover how big a tool he is will be one of the more interesting developments. Now that the UCI and IOC have names being thrown around I'm sure the bribe takers will be compelled to name the sources of their ill-gotten gains. Steal little, steal big.

 

[TrackCynic]

I agree there are good people at USAC who are trying to do grass-roots stuff, but I seriously wonder what I get for my membership fee; it sticks in my throat that a lot of the USAC fees are being used for what is basically a power play for a ring of very wealthy men all involved in USAC->UCI->IOC.

Even if it's not entirely ILLEGAL, it's certainly morally reprehensible what TW has done (including involvement in Junior and Master teams) and people, esp USAC fee-payers should know about it. So, when will it be that this stuff is revealed to the average rider/fan and isn't hidden in the Clinic? Why is there so little in the press about this ring? Or do we expect this to happen post-Armstrong?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Why is there so little in the press about this ring?

Who cares beyond a tiny audience of maybe 1000 people in the U.S. When Gerard Bisceglia (That's probably not the right spelling) was fired from USA Cycling for raising legitimate concerns maybe 10 people were bothered by it.

Nobody cares their meager USAC license fees support a doped monopoly. They just wail and moan about entry fees riding $10K in gear around an office park.

it also would start to raise questions about the role the IOC plays in enabling doping. Publishing a doping controversy story and mentioning the IOC's role is strictly forbidden.

 

[86TDFWinner]

will NIKE be held accountable for it too? just a thought....

What about Trek and Oakley who were more than happy to hitch their wagons to the Wonderboy gravy train, certainly they have to have some accountability as well?

 

[ValleyFlowers]

What about Trek and Oakley who were more than happy to hitch their wagons to the Wonderboy gravy train, certainly they have to have some accountability as well?

Are you wondering about legal or financial accountability?
Or maybe some moral accountability?

 

[reginagold]

Are you wondering about legal or financial accountability?
Or maybe some moral accountability?

There is some, indirect perhaps, financial impact. It's not so easy to save a brand that is wrapped around a sinking rock. I've spoken to a number of folks in the bike industry in the US and they uniformly report an unprecedented decline in sales over the last 4 months. These are Trek and other higher end retailers. The public is fickle.

 

[hfer07]

What about Trek and Oakley who were more than happy to hitch their wagons to the Wonderboy gravy train, certainly they have to have some accountability as well?

Indeed- and BTW should we look into AMGEN as well? Thom Weisel was linked to them & apparently the company benefited "indirectly" from the LA association to promote their "products" through the LA's foundation...

oh dear... the real dirty is about to appear

 

[hiero2]

Explain to me what takes USAC's place. USA Cycling has a government granted monopoly to eliminate alternative federations and operate the USACDF slush fund with impunity. The USAC members haven't cared for the last 20 years, so what will happen now to change it?

Unless you are in Oregon, there's a vast and uncoordinated number of races through some alternative cycling federations in the U.S. If Wiesel and his personal assistant Johnson have anything to say about it, OBRA would be gone too. Just like the ACA in Colorado.

Hopefully, there is a major law enforcement effort to follow that gets everyone at CSE/Tailwind in serious trouble. Best case scenario is Wiesel gets felony prison time for something and will be running the federation from jail. It's exactly that bad.

You know, Lance could actually rehabilitate some portion of his rep with me if he actually brought Weisel, McQuaid, and Verbruggen down. It seems apparent to me that the replacement system would have to be more open and responsive. Or at least, we can hope so. As recent world history makes apparent, creating real change is very very hard - the inertia of the old system means you just get new faces on the old system.

 

[Race Radio]

Many sources. Here's one over a year old just so you don't think it's a "fanboy fantasy" in wake of the recent earth shattering events that has upped the circle jerk club membership by around 25%. Pretty disappointing numbers considering how hard all the anonymous sources worked to pimp ole Oprah.

http://www.denverpost.com/outdoors/ci_17102119

The numbers are indeed "Fanboy Fantasy"

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/uspslance.htm

According to a February 2003 USPS Inspector General (OIG) report, the objective of the sponsorship was to "increase revenue and sales of Postal Service's products on a global basis and to increase sales in key international markets" with a specific monetary goal of increasing [annual international] revenue by $20 million. However, despite the cycling team's outstanding performance and extremely high profile, revenues from USPS international operations in 2003 were actually $12.8 million less than four- years earlier in 1999.

Calling USPS's decision a "major victory for consumers," PostalWatch executive director Rick Merritt stated in a press release, "Talk about a government boondoggle, the pro-cycling sponsorship exemplifies just how delusional postal leadership can be. They raised domestic monopoly rates three times while forcing captive ratepayers to pay more than $50 million to sponsor a European sporting event and then, adding insult to injury, they achieved a negative result."

The USPS brand is forever associated with fraud, cheating, and organized doping......exactly what the USPS wanted to avoid

 

[TrackCynic]

I love the way these apologists can throw "facts" around by quoting Lance or his lawyer. Thank god we have sharp people around like Race Radio to unearth the true facts.

I think there's a lot more to come of all of this in US cycling, Australian cycling and, if Sky is continuing the practice of "professional preparations", UK cycling. I'm still concerned that this will all stop at the riders (and possibly the odd DS or manager) and not get to the real problem - the guys holding the puppet strings.