Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Hopefully he's soon out of Australia and maybe do Lombardia?
Although I think he's had enough of it. Rest and prepare for next year.
I don't think he'll do anymore RR.

He was very down after the Tour (mentally as well) and according to the team finally happy again just before the worlds, because the legs were good again and he was really looking forward to it.

This is the second major mental blow in a short period of time. I think he just wants nothing to do with cycling until CX now.
 
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I believe it’s a good legal assumption. I don’t believe it’s a good epistemological assumption.

Unlike in a court, there’s a very limited harm in me being mistaken and wrongly believing that he is guilty.

I’m not advocating for anyone to punish him in any way based on that belief.
I mean, I agree with you that what's right and whats legal aren't one and the same. But it seems impossible to tell at this point what was right. And I sure would not make up my mind based on the police getting involved. Again, if there was no hotel security staff on hand, the proper action for MvdP based on several comments here would seem to be him calling the police on the girls.

On the second point, I think it's like saying it there's pretty limited harm in any particular person not voting, so let's not bother having elections. Freedom is responsibility. To have free speech is to be responsible for it. If you're going to bash someone publicly it seems like you should be at least somewhat sure he deserves it. You're completely entitled to have your own opinion on what happened, and to apply your own burden of proof, but I don't believe you think your opinion doesn't matter at all. I, for one, think it does.
 
I believe it’s a good legal assumption. I don’t believe it’s a good epistemological assumption.

Unlike in a court, there’s a very limited harm in me being mistaken and wrongly believing that he is guilty.

I’m not advocating for anyone to punish him in any way based on that belief.
Pretty much.

My assertion that it was stupid is also no based on the allegation that it was a physical alteration. I'm perfectly willing to believe MvdP that it was just a verbal engagement. My assertion is just that even that was a stupid thing to do.
 
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On the second point, I think it's like saying it there's pretty limited harm in any particular person not voting, so let's not bother having elections.
-> »[...] so let’s not condemn those who do not vote« would be more analog.

But I’ll give you that I believe in duty and in the sacred. I believe one has a duty to vote and that it is profane to willingly neglect that duty because I believe that democracy is sacred.

But in so far as it is right to condemn those who neglect their duties, I believe all condemnation should be proportionate and with the possibility of forgiveness.
 
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Lol, the whole situation has been a shambles. His arrest aside, the KNWU knew nothing of it until the start of the race. No one was with him the entire night. More so, the Dutch team was too late with their homework and had to book a hotel in the center of Sydney, a two hour drive away from the race. Van der Poel himself did not fly business class like many others, he flew first class, which is even more expensive. He has paid ~ €30.000 to: 1). see any chance of a medal in the mixed relay vanquish 10 meters after coming off the starting ramp, 2). retire in the road race 30 minutes after the start and 3). spend a night in jail and possible further consequences.
A hotel in the centre of Sydney on the night of a rugby league final? Yeesh. Definitely not the best place to stay the night before a race.
 
I think we should not be too hard or critical when judging Mathieu. We weren’t there, and obviously these kids created a situation that made everyone unhappy. But I think the situation will be cleared, and everyone will be able to watch themselves in the mirror.

Sadly MvDP then DNF, but Remco probably was too strong, anyways. So Mathieu would have had to race for Silver, but a rider like him understandably does not ride such a race for Silver. He said beforehand he wasn‘t at 100% anyways, so beating Remco would have been incredibly hard. And Mathieu certainly knows that.

Pro cycling‘s history shows some incidents that were much more severe than Mathieu‘s hotel incident. I for example immediately remembered the little-known LPR team incident in Emilia, Italy, from winter training period 2003/2004. LPR (good PCT) obviously paid their riders not very well, so riders Konyshev (father of Bike Exchange‘s Konyshev), Ivanov, Karpachev and Pidgornyy recovered from their winter training day‘s ride by assaulting and robbing a prostitute. I was very surprised when I read from this incident back in the days, because I rather didn‘t think pro cyclists would do something like that… (Edit, link: https://wielrennen.startpagina.nl/forum/topic/1829831/konychev-gearresteerd/ )
 
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-> »[...] so let’s not condemn those who do not vote« would be more analog.

But I’ll give you that I believe in duty and in the sacred. I believe one has a duty to vote and that it is profane to willingly neglect that duty because I believe that democracy is sacred.

But in so far as it is right to condemn those who neglect their duties, I believe all condemnation should be proportionate and with the possibility of forgiveness.
Do you vote in the US or Italy?
 
It's simple. Either he deserved that treatment or he didn't. If he did, then he made his own bed. But if he didn't, then i find the situation disturbingly unfair. I don't even know a fitting English word for what i would describe as "wraakroepend". Imagine having your season goal for which you've been working your ass off since july, unjustly taken away from you by some cocky teens and stubborn power-hungry cops, while you only have a few shots at a WCC title left.
 
Any more news?

I keep wondering about adrenaline levels in some riders. I mean chemically/physically/psychiatric.

As someone with ADHD I don't believe in the the ability of everyone to control rage in the heat of the moment. Sometimes you just gotta be smart and know there are situations you cannot handle and plan accordingly in advance.

Yeah I believe knowing how to act with ADHD should be similar to being an elite athlete with ultra high adrenaline levels. Maybe wrong but if you are aware you might hit people when too stressed out you should simply avoid being around people when stressed out. Like literally. Kids especially.
 
Van der Poel is an adult. Is the team staff supposed to babysit him, so he doesn't behave badly? He doesn't really appear to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. Any sensible person would have called the hotel staff to complain. He decided to take action himself, which also means that he himself should face the consequences. Shedding the blame on the team or hotel, is in my opinion not warranted.
The point isn't that staff SHOULD have to 'babysit' him, the point is that other teams DO babysit their riders (especially the stars). IMO, blaming the team is completely warranted.

Do you know if the front desk was called or not? IMO, blaming the hotel is completely warranted.

Anything other than a quick yell down the hall puts the blame on MvdP.

EDIT: hopefully there are (functioning) security cameras in the hall.
 
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I read someone claim he was actually staying at the hotel of his girlfriend, instead of the hotel of the Dutch team?? Then i don't understand why she didn't take initiative to talk to the kids, go to the lobby/front desk... why did he do that himself? It's the night before the most important race of the year. He shouldn't have to stress/bother himself with things like this.
 
I read someone claim he was actually staying at the hotel of his girlfriend, instead of the hotel of the Dutch team?? Then i don't understand why she didn't take initiative to talk to the kids, go to the lobby/front desk... why did he do that himself? It's the night before the most important race of the year. He shouldn't have to stress/bother himself with things like this.
From what I read on Wielerflits, Adrie said he was on an upper floor from his original room with his girlfriend, but could be a misleading Google translate.

Trying to place myself in his shoes, I also find it weird that it wasn't his girlfriend the one to react first. But then again, we don't know if she went to see what's happening, the problem repeated himself and he was the one to go check. But in his shoes, I think my first thought would be to try to address the issue directly first (friendly) before phoning reception or even calling the police (I don't think this option would cross my mind at all, even more in a foreign country without knowing what line to call).

I also find it strange how the hotel wasn't informed it had some high level guests who were in a business travel for a high level event. At least in my country, and depending on the type of hotel, they would take some provisions to ensure that particular stay would be as trouble free as possible.
 
Not easy being an MVDP fan these days. Seems to be a humble guy with good character who shows appreciation and respect to folks - especially kids. I have a very hard time believing he actually physically assaulted two teenage girls. If he did, then he deserves what he gets, and my view of him will change. But, this is a very big "innocent until proven guilty" in my mind. As someone else said earlier, there has to be cameras in the hallway of this hotel.
 
I read someone claim he was actually staying at the hotel of his girlfriend, instead of the hotel of the Dutch team?? Then i don't understand why she didn't take initiative to talk to the kids, go to the lobby/front desk... why did he do that himself? It's the night before the most important race of the year. He shouldn't have to stress/bother himself with things like this.
I thought that the story said that he was in the team hotel, but one floor up with his girlfriend.

Do we know yet if he called the front desk? Its quite possible that he did, but that the person at the desk was only only person working so they couldn't respond (assuming AUS is like the USA as far as barebone workforce in the service industry).
 
This looks bad for MVDP. He is being cancelled hard here in Australia.

Guilty until proven innocent for any man who is reported by a woman to the police, her bf or social media.

I dont think this will end well for him as the haters will just run with it regardless if it is all fake claims.
Roglic just wrote a mildly annoyed tweet and lost all his fans overnight. Standards for cycling fans are very high.
 
Not easy being an MVDP fan these days. Seems to be a humble guy with good character who shows appreciation and respect to folks - especially kids. I have a very hard time believing he actually physically assaulted two teenage girls. If he did, then he deserves what he gets, and my view of him will change. But, this is a very big "innocent until proven guilty" in my mind. As someone else said earlier, there has to be cameras in the hallway of this hotel.
I don't necessarily care about MvdP, but it is absurd that functioning teens, a modern invention, should behave like swine and not suffer the consequences.
 

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