Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[memyselfandI]

i am incredibly shocked by anyone joking about vanderpoel and vanaert. we are seeing incredible athleticisim. speaking with a dutch guy here in central cali...people in the know know. those are merckx, this is lemond. i raced against lemond in norcal i know....this is special we are privileged to see.

Well, he is super talented and a pack of dynamite, but still +80 pro wins behind Sagan and some 115 pro wins behind Cavendish. Only 4th season I know, but he's got some task to do to collect all that. We'll see that, it's always nice to see some new faces.

 

[fauniera]

Well, he is super talented and a pack of dynamite, but still +80 pro wins behind Sagan and some 115 pro wins behind Cavendish. Only 4th season I know, but he's got some task to do to collect all that. We'll see that, it's always nice to see some new faces.

Van der Poels Amstel win is worth some 100 sprint wins from Cavendish.

 

[Red Rick]

WERE THERE BOYS. VAN DER POEL CAN WIN GRAND TOURS

According to experts like Bradley Wiggins.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

WERE THERE BOYS. VAN DER POEL CAN WIN GRAND TOURS

According to experts like Bradley Wiggins.

Lol what, ofc he can do that. Other classics stars such as Sagan and Cancellara have proven that.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

WERE THERE BOYS. VAN DER POEL CAN WIN GRAND TOURS

According to experts like Bradley Wiggins.

Lol what, ofc he can do that. Other classics stars such as Sagan and Cancellara have proven that.

I have one letter for you:

G

 

[Valv.Piti]

Psyhically they are very different riders which I am sure you are aware of, but yes, Thomas has proven it can be done....

 

[tobydawq]

Re:

Psyhically they are very different riders which I am sure you are aware of, but yes, Thomas has proven it can be done....

By the way, I don't disagree that he will not contend for Grand Tours.

I don't see how he is similar to Cancellara, though...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Nah, he is obviously much closer to Sagan in terms his psychical attributes. They are actually very similar I'd say.

I only included Cancellara since there was a lot of talk (maybe only in Danish media due to Riis' obsession with TdF) about him turning into a GT-contender, especially after Tour de Suisse 2009. But he is not your typical classics rider really.

 

[Ricco']

Wahoo data for the last 800m on Sunday:

Avg Speed: 59.2 km/h
Max Speed: 67.4 km/h
Avg Watts: 831
Max Watts: 1400
Avg Cadence: 105 rpm
Max Cadence: 113 rpm

 

[Bushman]

1400 peak watts is almost world class sprinter numbers (except for bigger guys like Greipel or Kittel), right? And then doing so after such a race and towing the group for the last couple of k’s without break is quite remarkable.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

1400 peak watts is almost world class sprinter numbers (except for bigger guys like Greipel or Kittel), right? And then doing so after such a race and towing the group for the last couple of k’s without break is quite remarkable.

That's like the peak of sprinters who are a few inches shorter than him.

But I am curious about his sprinting vs top sprinters too.

 

[Valv.Piti]

But, but, but..............

The Tour?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

No chance haha. Vd Poel

1) gets bored
2) cant keep concentration for 3 weeks
3) cant handle the climbing with his current weight. And I doubt he can if he's slimmer. Plus he'll lose his main explosivity which could ruin his entire career.

Just be an all winning classic contender who might even be able to win a couple of green jerseys while he is at it

 

[Red Rick]

Like how many mountainious road races has he done?

I think Dumoulin winning a Tour would hopefully should journo's up about that a bit.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

Like how many mountainious road races has he done?

I think Dumoulin winning a Tour would hopefully should journo's up about that a bit.

Only in the juniors, against guys like Rob Power, Sam Oomen (one of his friends actually) and Jack Haig. But most climbs there aren't even as long as 'real' alpine or pyrenees climbs.

And he's only gotten 'bigger' and heavier since that period. And in juniors it's more about power then anything else.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Like how many mountainious road races has he done?

I think Dumoulin winning a Tour would hopefully should journo's up about that a bit.

Only in the juniors, against guys like Rob Power, Sam Oomen (one of his friends actually) and Jack Haig. But most climbs there aren't even as long as 'real' alpine or pyrenees climbs.

And he's only gotten 'bigger' and heavier since that period. And in juniors it's more about power then anything else.

Yeah. Didn't Matthews ride for GC in l'Avenir or something?

 

[Flamin]

I know he's had the occasional off day in his career, albeit exceptional, but I'm still amazed how he got dropped by many many mediocre riders (including heavier guys) uphill last year in Norway, after winning the first stage with ease. And that particular climb was like 4k at moderate gradient.

 

[Ricco']

Re:

I know he's had the occasional off day in his career, albeit exceptional, but I'm still amazed how he got dropped by many many mediocre riders (including heavier guys) uphill last year in Norway, after winning the first stage with ease. And that particular climb was like 4k at moderate gradient.

As far as I remember, there was a lot of wind on that stage and he ran out of teammates very shortly after the attacks started. It was basically him vs Astana (Fuglsang and Chernetckii, at least) and despite his explosiveness, he wasn't nowhere near as strong endurance-wise last year. I think he was already cooked when the climb started and when the Astana guys went he quickly blew himself trying to follow.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

GT GC would not be for him, imho. I very much doubt he has the abilities to become a top GC guy (i don't think he's the best climber. I think he'd be a pretty adequate ITT'er, maybe even a good one. But i haven't seen anything so far to suggest that he would be(come) good at 15k+ 7%+ climbs), but i even far more doubt he has it in him, to make so many sacrifices. One GT takes months of preparation. The race itself, requires you to ride as conservatively as possible. A lot of self constraint, more focus than i think he can handle, always being attentive at the front. Loss of weight (which would very likely mean losing muscle and explosiveness)... And for what? One, maximum two GT's per year? He wouldn't be able to dominate CX, MTB, and RR classics like he does now. And what if it doesn't work out? Is it worth it to miss out on literally dozens of wins, where he'd be able to enjoy himself a lot more?

 

[Tonton]

Wow! Let's not get carried away with the GT talks. But one thing for sure: he's a heck of a rider, instincts, he's a winner. I watched that final several times and he Merckx-ed it.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

I know he's had the occasional off day in his career, albeit exceptional, but I'm still amazed how he got dropped by many many mediocre riders (including heavier guys) uphill last year in Norway, after winning the first stage with ease. And that particular climb was like 4k at moderate gradient.

As far as I remember, there was a lot of wind on that stage and he ran out of teammates very shortly after the attacks started. It was basically him vs Astana (Fuglsang and Chernetckii, at least) and despite his explosiveness, he wasn't nowhere near as strong endurance-wise last year. I think he was already cooked when the climb started and when the Astana guys went he quickly blew himself trying to follow.

There was a lot of wind indeed which made it a hard day for everyone. Iirc he was dropped pretty quickly when Astana upped the pace, and then even from a chasing group.

I suppose the hard-all-day kind of races are his "weakness" at this point, see also Gent-Wevelgem.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

You make it sound like he finished in the last group. He still finished 21th or something in the first big chasing group.

What wasn't in the broadcast was that he was in breakaways early in the stage. A big no-no as race leader. iirc he already wasted a lot of energy before the broadcast even begun

 

[Ricco']

MVdP uploaded his Amstel ride on Strava.

Last 5k's: Avg Speed 48.3, Avg Watts 428
Last 10k's: Avg Speed 42.3, Avg Watts 401
Keutenberg: 33.8 Avg Speed, 451 Avg Watts
Kruisberg (where he attacked first): Avg Speed 24.7, Avg Watts 634

For comparison, he generated approximately the same amount of maximum power when he was dutch champion last year (1470 max watts on the sprint then vs 1400 now).

 

[Flamin]

Re:

You make it sound like he finished in the last group. He still finished 21th or something in the first big chasing group.

What wasn't in the broadcast was that he was in breakaways early in the stage. A big no-no as race leader. iirc he already wasted a lot of energy before the broadcast even begun

There were just echelons all day. Everyone wastes energy in them.

Sure, he finished in the big group at the end, because the top of the climb was 35k from the finish and different groups melted together after the climb. Uphill he was dropped by many guys of that group though.

 

[Flamin]

Re:

MVdP uploaded his Amstel ride on Strava.

Last 5k's: Avg Speed 48.3, Avg Watts 428
Last 10k's: Avg Speed 42.3, Avg Watts 401
Keutenberg: 33.8 Avg Speed, 451 Avg Watts
Kruisberg (where he attacked first): Avg Speed 24.7, Avg Watts 634

For comparison, he generated approximately the same amount of maximum power when he was dutch champion last year (1470 max watts on the sprint then vs 1400 now).

Seems legit