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Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Oh look, rules arbitrarily not getting enforced for xyz reasons... and people wonder why Rog's 20 second drafting penalty in the Vuelta made some of us ROFL.

Welcome to pro cycling... and it's inexplicable inconsistencies.
Are you trying to make some sort of point?
I wasn't laughing at Rog's penalty either. It was a deserved penalty. (He agreed btw, said that he took a gamble there) MvdP should have been penalised as well. If they stop being inconsistent, I'm sure riders will start following the rules pretty damn quick.

Or we could just shrug and say 'welcome to pro cycling' I guess. It's not an attitude that'll result in anything positive but hey.
 
It seems people have trouble distinguishing between the nature of incidents. Cutting a corner via the pavement with many kilometres to the finish line is obviously not as serious an offence as if it had happened with 5 k to go. Also there is a significant difference between doing what van der Poel did within a second and getting pacing from vehicles to get back to a group or riding on a bike path for a couple of hundred meters during a TT.

It's the same in bunch sprints. Pushing occurs, but not all riders that push are punished for it. It depends on how serious the action was. And it can't be any different, you can't apply zero tolerance to cycling nor can you ignore all kind of offences.
 
It seems people have trouble distinguishing between the nature of incidents. Cutting a corner via the pavement with many kilometres to the finish line is obviously not as serious an offence as if it had happened with 5 k to go. Also there is a significant difference between doing what van der Poel did within a second and getting pacing from vehicles to get back to a group or riding on a bike path for a couple of hundred meters during a TT.
I think you are wrong on both counts. The move was dangerous, and he forced spectators to jump aside, which is the main reason he should be DQed. If you don't punish consistently, it just invites more riders to repeat the dangerous moves until a spectator is hit.

And secondly, he did gain an advantage which was apparently significant to him in the moment. Otherwise why would he have done it? He just felt like terrorizing spectators for no reason?
 
I think you are wrong on both counts. The move was dangerous, and he forced spectators to jump aside, which is the main reason he should be DQed. If you don't punish consistently, it just invites more riders to repeat the dangerous moves until a spectator is hit.

And secondly, he did gain an advantage which was apparently significant to him in the moment. Otherwise why would he have done it? He just felt like terrorizing spectators for no reason?
I do think it was an illegal move, but no other rider had disadvantage from it, and it probably didn't influence the result at the end of the race.

Offences in that category are rarely punished. In sprints for instance you hardly ever see a sanction unless another rider crashed or was close to crashing. And even if a rider does get punished for a reckless move, he normally only gets relegated which is a far softer consequence than being DQ'ed as some people want van der Poel to be.

There is something missing in the rules about minor offences. In Formula 1 there are stop and go penalties. I don't know if that would work in cycling, but at least a yellow card has been introduced. That could be used more.
 
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I do think it was an illegal move, but no other rider had disadvantage from it, and it probably didn't influence the result at the end of the race.

Offences in that category are rarely punished. In sprints for instance you hardly ever see a sanction unless another rider crashed or was close to crashing. And even if a rider does get punished for a reckless move, he normally only gets relegated which is a far softer consequence than being DQ'ed as some people want van der Poel to be.

There is something missing in the rules about minor offences. In Formula 1 there are stop and go penalties. I don't know if that would work in cycling, but at least a yellow card has been introduced. That could be used more.
He clearly endangered spectators. I don‘t know why they‘d have to be riders to count. If they had dressed up in cycling clothes, should he be disqualified then because they‘re cyclists? They could have given him a yellow card if they wanted to have absolutely no consequences because this was Van der Poel‘s last road race of the season.
 
but at least a yellow card has been introduced. That could be used more.
Not yet: purely theoretical for now
They could have given him a yellow card if they wanted to have absolutely no consequences because this was Van der Poel‘s last road race of the season.
It would have no consequences because they are only illustrative for now, not because of the season end
Well, then you could change the rules of yellow cards, so that riders don't necessarily start from scratch after New Year.
That doesn't need a change of rules, because the rules don't have a clean sheet for a new season.

6 cards in a year: 30 day ban.
 
2 yellow cards = banned for two weeks of racing. Or minus 100 UCI points. Or something like that.

That's what I meant by "use it more". :)
2 in one event is 7 day ban; 3 in 30 days brings 14 day ban; 6 in a year, 30 day ban. No card can count towards two sanctions.

I guess getting the penalty triggering card in one's last race in October (once it comes into play) would be a bit of a get out of jail free card: rule does state that the suspension starts from the day of the card. Maybe we will see all sorts of silliness in last race of the season races from those one short of a suspension: Guangxi could end up like some sort of Breakfast Club detention hall.

As I understand it, the yellow cards do not carry UCI point deductions (or fines) of themselves, but the offences for which they can be given often do, so this is an additional penalty, not a replacement. (Whether that is the case in practice remains to be seen.)
 
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I do think it was an illegal move, but no other rider had disadvantage from it, and it probably didn't influence the result at the end of the race.

Offences in that category are rarely punished. In sprints for instance you hardly ever see a sanction unless another rider crashed or was close to crashing. And even if a rider does get punished for a reckless move, he normally only gets relegated which is a far softer consequence than being DQ'ed as some people want van der Poel to be.

There is something missing in the rules about minor offences. In Formula 1 there are stop and go penalties. I don't know if that would work in cycling, but at least a yellow card has been introduced. That could be used more.
how did no rider have a disadvantage? He was in the middle of launching a sneak attack with the express intent of making it hard to follow him. If he didn't want to put the surrounding riders at a disadvantage, he would have waited for an opening and said, "excuse me, I'm going to pull now, hop on my wheel".

Relegating a sprinter is equivalent to disqualifying him. Relegating MVDP in this scenario (a) would have made no sense, because his continued presence has already influenced the outcome of the race and (b) would have been just as bad from MVDP's perspective since it would have booted him off the podium.
 
how did no rider have a disadvantage?

I've rewatched it, and the situation was quite undramatic - the other riders in the group hardly noticed what he did.

Relegating a sprinter is equivalent to disqualifying him.

Not really. If it's a stage race, you stay in the race. If it's a big one day race, you get loads of UCI points for being relegated to fifth after a five man group sprint. That's actually one of the reasons why many riders take big risks in sprints: it's not that bad for them if they get penalized. (Lanterne Rouge has shown that to perfection.)

Relegating MVDP in this scenario (a) would have made no sense, because his continued presence has already influenced the outcome of the race

The same in sprints. Sanctions can rarely restore a just outcome - their purpose is to make riders respect the rules.
and (b) would have been just as bad from MVDP's perspective since it would have booted him off the podium.
If you have a penalty that is less harsh than disqualification, there will often be situations where that penalty hits harder than in others. It's like in football when a player gets a red card after 1 minute of play and another player gets a red card with 1 minute remaining. The offences may be the same, but the consequence is far more severe in the first case. That's just how it is.

Even if Van der Poel missed the podium because of a time penalty or some other kind of sanction, I would still regard it as more proportionate than disqualification. As mentioned elsewhere, a yellow card would also be fine with me, although the current yellow card system seems too soft in my opinion. Two times jumping over pavements (within half a season or a whole season) should lead to a ban.
 
Needs to be. Why? I actually hope he would skip that entirely.
Because the MTB is helluva more fun for him to race and more fun to watch IMO. And with road Worlds unwinnable in '25 there is nothing worth winning after the Spring Classics. Grand tour stage wins don't seem to motivate him much and they won't mean much on his palmares when it's all said and done. Good year to get the rainbow jersey on the MTB. Squeeze in a partial GT where he can if need.
 
After Van der Poel got the gravel World title (third cycling discipline where he gets the rainbow jersey) and with him going on holiday for a while its time to look back on his season.

While I still think 2023 was a bit better just because he got the road World title, 2024 was still a very good season that fully cements him as one of the best riders of this golden generation.

Winning both Flanders and Roubaix in the same season in the rainbow jersey has to be one of the highlights of his career and while he wasn't succesful in keeping the world title, third was still a good result as it was his Liège performance and E3 was a nice addition to his palmares too. The only part of his season where he missed his targets was the summer failing the get a medal in the Olympics and a stage win at the Tour but this is still by far his second best season to date.

Besides his usual focus in the monuments I would like him to focus more in the Tour or the Vuelta next year as there will be no Olympics and the Worlds course doesn't suit him. Maybe riding a few gravel races in his rainbow jersey too.
 
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2 in one event is 7 day ban; 3 in 30 days brings 14 day ban; 6 in a year, 30 day ban. No card can count towards two sanctions.

I guess getting the penalty triggering card in one's last race in October (once it comes into play) would be a bit of a get out of jail free card: rule does state that the suspension starts from the day of the card. Maybe we will see all sorts of silliness in last race of the season races from those one short of a suspension: Guangxi could end up like some sort of Breakfast Club detention hall.

As I understand it, the yellow cards do not carry UCI point deductions (or fines) of themselves, but the offences for which they can be given often do, so this is an additional penalty, not a replacement. (Whether that is the case in practice remains to be seen.)
I like the Breakfast Club reference. Actually; the punishment should be a requisite race in Guangxi. Especially when the air quality sucks.
 
After Van der Poel got the gravel World title (third cycling discipline where he gets the rainbow jersey)
A really cool feat.
Besides his usual focus in the monuments I would like him to focus more in the Tour or the Vuelta next year as there will be no Olympics and the Worlds course doesn't suit him. Maybe riding a few gravel races in his rainbow jersey too.
Think its logical from him next season as there is no Olympics. Next season for that reason I hope that too and believe he will focus more on the Tour but for him it also comes down to the route somewhat me thinks. I wonder if he will mind the Vuelta to target winning a stage in each GT or if he even cares about it.
 
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Because the MTB is helluva more fun for him to race and more fun to watch IMO. And with road Worlds unwinnable in '25 there is nothing worth winning after the Spring Classics. Grand tour stage wins don't seem to motivate him much and they won't mean mt rock up t jusuch on his palmares when it's all said and done. Good year to get the rainbow jersey on the MTB. Squeeze in a partial GT where he can if need.

He's already hinting MTB Worlds might be on the agenda, as Rwanda is too hilly. If so, then he has to race regularly, and get the MTB feeling - he can't rock up without prep like Pidcock can.
 
He has to realize he's never going to beat Pog in a climb heavy course unless Pog crashes, gets sick, or has a mechanical.
He is a champion its in his nature to try im sure. But yeah the cobbles in north are his speciality, remove Tadej from the equation and he has showned he can contest in those others too. He has a impressive power output only matched by yeah.

Cant wait to watch him in the cobble classics next year, I personally hope he skips alot of CX this winter but thats just my opinion.
 
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