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Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Understandable since he usually shits himself everytime MvdP is at the startline in all big races so only fitting.
Good for him that he wins when the king is absent. Always nice to see Van Aert win hes a warrior.
In all fairness, while MvdP has been the superior rider in the classics and cross seasons, there's no comparison between the two when it comes to overall cycling ability. Wout has won on the TT bike and the climbs. VdP disappears once the road turns upward and he's a non-factor in the TT. I've been a long-time fan of VdP, but his limitations are obvious. Of course, in one-day races, he's in a class of his own (right behind Pog).
 
In all fairness, while MvdP has been the superior rider in the classics and cross seasons, there's no comparison between the two when it comes to overall cycling ability. Wout has won on the TT bike and the climbs. VdP disappears once the road turns upward and he's a non-factor in the TT. I've been a long-time fan of VdP, but his limitations are obvious. Of course, in one-day races, he's in a class of his own (right behind Pog).
What does overall cycling ability mean to you? If it only includes the various road disciplines, Wout obviously has more breadth of talent in the various road disciplines.

MVDP is not on Wout's level in TT, obviously, but if you look at his results he always does well enough when he is in a position to care about his result (early Giro and Tour TTs when he wants the jersey, minor Bel/Lux one week tours where he is competing for GC).
 
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In all fairness, while MvdP has been the superior rider in the classics and cross seasons, there's no comparison between the two when it comes to overall cycling ability. Wout has won on the TT bike and the climbs. VdP disappears once the road turns upward and he's a non-factor in the TT. I've been a long-time fan of VdP, but his limitations are obvious. Of course, in one-day races, he's in a class of his own (right behind Pog).
Overall cycling ability only has instrumental value. If it doesn't buy you success, it's not worth much.
 
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Not sure what you're saying here. His other palmares aside, WvA does have 12 GT stage wins and won the green jersey at the 2022 TdF. It's obviously "worth much", judging by the salary he commands. VdP has only 2 GT wins, I believe.
If there's no comparison between them in overall ability (because Van Aert has so much more of it), and that translates to a higher wage for Wout, how much more does he earn than Van der Poel does?
 
If there's no comparison between them in overall ability (because Van Aert has so much more of it), and that translates to a higher wage for Wout, how much more does he earn than Van der Poel does?
You're shifting the goal posts. You said "overall ability doesn't mean much." It obviously does, otherwise Wout wouldn't be paid what he makes. Does it mean as much as winning the top monuments? No. So MvdP makes more. It doesn't seem that I'm saying anything controversial here, just saying what should be obvious to anyone paying attention to cycling.
Looking more closely at the salaries, VdP is 4th, Wout is 5th, with half a million euros less (and more than Remco). So, it seems that overall ability, contrary to your claim, does mean "much" after all.
 
You're shifting the goal posts. You said "overall ability doesn't mean much." It obviously does, otherwise Wout wouldn't be paid what he makes. Does it mean as much as winning the top monuments? No. So MvdP makes more. It doesn't seem that I'm saying anything controversial here, just saying what should be obvious to anyone paying attention to cycling.
Looking more closely at the salaries, VdP is 4th, Wout is 5th, with half a million euros less (and more than Remco). So, it seems that overall ability, contrary to your claim, does mean "much" after all.
Your not saying anything controversial at all, Wva is more versatile thats a fact and obvious overall ability matters to some degree ofc it does, but only so much as winning the majors outweights it, its what they peak for and their goals and whats define them at that level above anything else, like you also agree on, GT' stages in this sense is second tier, and especially while impressive he is not a world class climber so in that sense its instrumental value to a lesser degree.

Still truly a special talent and also judging by results black and white alone is deranged and not the complete picture in that sense you could argue he is better than pictured in monuments aswell as if you put him in any other era than this he would dominate.
 
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You're shifting the goal posts. You said "overall ability doesn't mean much." It obviously does, otherwise Wout wouldn't be paid what he makes. Does it mean as much as winning the top monuments? No. So MvdP makes more. It doesn't seem that I'm saying anything controversial here, just saying what should be obvious to anyone paying attention to cycling.
Looking more closely at the salaries, VdP is 4th, Wout is 5th, with half a million euros less (and more than Remco). So, it seems that overall ability, contrary to your claim, does mean "much" after all.
Those list dont account for the whole picture even, only salary from the team - in in many of these cases that equals almost half the salary. Pogacar allegedly gets over 5-6MEuros a year from Colnago alone additional to the normal salary which are official from UAE below, after a private fund owned by UAE bought Colnago a way to alter the budgets you could say, MvdP gets rumored extreme amount from Canyon etc.

Also just cause someone is willing to pay something for someone doesnt necessarily equal skill I dont think its a good argument tho i get it as it show it matters which was the stupid argument in the first place so in that sense it matter i get it.. (froome now for instance or take whatever sport in the world and you will find tons of examples of that)

Your list is not uppdated btw:

1.Tadej Pogačar - €8.3 million
2.Remco Evenepoel - €5 million
3.Primož Roglič - €4.5 million
4.Jonas Vingegaard - €4 million
5.Mathieu van der Poel - €4 million
6.Wout van Aert - €3.5 million
 
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Why don't you clarify what you mean, Netserk?
I said Wout is overall a better cyclist. You said overall ability doesn't mean much if it doesn't buy you success. I pointed out that Wout has been very successful given his palmares and his attendant salary. So your comment is at best irrelevant with respect to Wout, which was the topic here.

Again, I'm at a loss as to what you're arguing. I'm saying:
1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.
2) Wout has a better GT palmares (12 GT wins, green jersey) to 2 GT wins for MvdP. Difference would be even more stark had WvA not crashed in the Vuelta.
3) MvdP has better palmares on 1-day road races, which has translated to a somewhat higher salary, though they're both top 5 in $$$.

All of this seems obvious to me, but YMMV.
 
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Why don't you clarify what you mean, Netserk?
I said Wout is overall a better cyclist. You said overall ability doesn't mean much if it doesn't buy you success. I pointed out that Wout has been very successful given his palmares and his attendant salary. So your comment is at best irrelevant with respect to Wout, which was the topic here.

Again, I'm at a loss as to what you're arguing. I'm saying:
1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.
2) Wout has a better GT palmares (12 GT wins, green jersey) to 2 GT wins for MvdP. Difference would be even more stark had WvA not crashed in the Vuelta.
3) MvdP has better palmares on 1-day road races, which has translated to a somewhat higher salary, though they're both top 5 in $$$.

All of this seems obvious to me, but YMMV.
Conditioned on 2 & 3, 1 matters 0.
 
I wonder if he's actually seen the Crans-Montana course, as used in the World Cup last season. It's one of the most technical courses we've seen recently.........He'll need time on the MTB if he wants that title.
Pretty sure he'll be more than fine if he commits the time he needs to the MTB - and no reason he can't given he has no major goals on the road this year after PR. By 2019 he was dominating the sport, and as far as technical downhills he wasn't even using a dropper in 2019. He can take lines on a CX bike with no driver aids that even Pidcock can't touch and to me that is the ultimate test of bike handling skills. With all the squish (dual sus, dropper, huge tires @ low pressures) on the MTB's these days it's basically point and go. And his engine dwarfs Piddy's.
 
1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.
This is ridiculous and pointless.
MVDP Cobbles better, corners better, handles better, stays upright better, leads out better, 'punches' better, wins better and even though he is not as good a sprinter, he's beaten Wout in the 2 biggest H2H sprints they have ever contested (maybe more, I dunno).
 
This is ridiculous and pointless.
MVDP Cobbles better, corners better, handles better, stays upright better, leads out better, 'punches' better, wins better and even though he is not as good a sprinter, he's beaten Wout in the 2 biggest H2H sprints they have ever contested (maybe more, I dunno).
.... keeps air in his tires better (though that, I think, is a team and equipment issue).
 
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Sep 22, 2024
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His other palmares consists of pure cycling heritage: 6 monuments, 1 Worlds, +10 podiums in monuments, handful of semi classics like AGR, E3, SB, DdV, multiple NCs. There are no more than 3 riders currently active who have a more impressive palmares than MvdP. You could put that aside but cycling is way more than GTs.
Pogacar, Roglic, Froome?
 
Not yet imo, but they are close indeed.

- MvdP: 6 Monuments, 1 WC, 13 podiums in monuments or Worlds, plenty of semi classics (AGR, SB, E3, DvV) 2 NCs
- Evenepoel: 1 GT, 1 podium, Olympic gold (2x), 1WC, 2x WCTT, 2 monuments, 4 podiums in Monuments or WC, 1 NCs

But I guess for the ones who rate Olympics higher than Worlds Remco wins. I don't personally.
 
Why don't you clarify what you mean, Netserk?
I said Wout is overall a better cyclist. You said overall ability doesn't mean much if it doesn't buy you success. I pointed out that Wout has been very successful given his palmares and his attendant salary. So your comment is at best irrelevant with respect to Wout, which was the topic here.

Again, I'm at a loss as to what you're arguing. I'm saying:
1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.
2) Wout has a better GT palmares (12 GT wins, green jersey) to 2 GT wins for MvdP. Difference would be even more stark had WvA not crashed in the Vuelta.
3) MvdP has better palmares on 1-day road races, which has translated to a somewhat higher salary, though they're both top 5 in $$$.

All of this seems obvious to me, but YMMV.
Yeah, Wout is to Van Der Poel similar what Hushovd was to Boonen.
Hushovd was superior climber, had better GT palmares, and nearly equal on road races.
Simply better cyclist overall. Right?
 
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