Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

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Have they trained on it before? Has anyone? Is it not a place where they go to do trial runs?
Yep, a lot of people train on that highway, it's pan flat with a full lane shoulder and the fast guys like to use it for speed work and you see guys doing timed segments (as in masking tape and guys on the side of the road with stopwaches). There's always the urban cowboys doing their remora impressions on random trucks, but there are also plenty of traditional cycling clubs going flat out you can cling onto if you're on a good day. To paraphrase the great Greg LeMond, there's hardly any wind and any wind resistance doesn't make it any easier, you just go faster.

That being said, as Escarabajo said, that particular part where the motorway splits is the worst part of that route because the buses get off onto the busy road through town and the cars speed up into the remaining highway. Haven't wanted to stare too long at the shots of the accident so I'm not clear which way they went through the fork but it seems like it was the busy part where buses just jut out in front of you to pick passengers up. It wouldn't be a place where I'd want to do an effort but most people get complacent on familiar roads like that. I avoid that highway as much as possible -seen plenty of spills, and took one of my own there- but it's really the main way anywhere, particularly from the general Chia region close to where it would seem Bernal lives.

There are dozens upon dozens of local pros who train in the Bogota region, and it's a really great place to ride, so I understand why Ineos would want to keep it close to home for Bernal (and Martinez and Rivera). But there's a reason training camps are usually held in places like Calpe and not Madrid or Sevilla (or Barcelona), and why Van Vleuten et alia go for the Antioquia and Filandia/Eje Cafetero regions. But then again that's a simple conclusion to come to at this point, and Bogota might actually be the best major city in the world for road cycling.

So sad to hear another rider take a spill. Really hoping Bernal and Rivera bounce back from this.
 
A racetrack or an empty airstrip seems like an ideal place to train on the TT bike. I would think a team like Ineos should have the funds to hire it for a day, especially if it is for several riders of the team. I don't see how you can combine your TT position both thoroughly and safely on public roads when riders often have there heads down for several seconds in TT position.
 
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Rasmussen was at his best ever after he broke his femur, so not necessarily.
Probably he had just a crack in the bone considering he was already riding in California the following February. The big problem with a broken femur is that when you stabilize the fracture you can't just put some screws and let it heal "how it comes" like a collarbone, you need to be sure that the bone is perfectly realigned to avoid problems with the knee and hip, an area that is fundamental for a cyclist, and it isn't something simple. The injury could be totally recovered from a medical point of view and still you end up like Beloki or Froome and you are done as a top rider.
 
Yep, a lot of people train on that highway, it's pan flat with a full lane shoulder and the fast guys like to use it for speed work and you see guys doing timed segments (as in masking tape and guys on the side of the road with stopwaches). There's always the urban cowboys doing their remora impressions on random trucks, but there are also plenty of traditional cycling clubs going flat out you can cling onto if you're on a good day. To paraphrase the great Greg LeMond, there's hardly any wind and any wind resistance doesn't make it any easier, you just go faster.

That being said, as Escarabajo said, that particular part where the motorway splits is the worst part of that route because the buses get off onto the busy road through town and the cars speed up into the remaining highway. Haven't wanted to stare too long at the shots of the accident so I'm not clear which way they went through the fork but it seems like it was the busy part where buses just jut out in front of you to pick passengers up. It wouldn't be a place where I'd want to do an effort but most people get complacent on familiar roads like that. I avoid that highway as much as possible -seen plenty of spills, and took one of my own there- but it's really the main way anywhere, particularly from the general Chia region close to where it would seem Bernal lives.

There are dozens upon dozens of local pros who train in the Bogota region, and it's a really great place to ride, so I understand why Ineos would want to keep it close to home for Bernal (and Martinez and Rivera). But there's a reason training camps are usually held in places like Calpe and not Madrid or Sevilla (or Barcelona), and why Van Vleuten et alia go for the Antioquia and Filandia/Eje Cafetero regions. But then again that's a simple conclusion to come to at this point, and Bogota might actually be the best major city in the world for road cycling.

So sad to hear another rider take a spill. Really hoping Bernal and Rivera bounce back from this.
Thanks for the useful info. Your local knowledge, combined with a reasoned analysis, is very helpful. The points about "complacency with familiar roads" and the traffic issues, especially with buses, not making it an ideal, even if convenient place to train, unfortunately portrays perfect conditions for disaster to strike. To this I would add ever more radical time trial positions to achieve optimal aerodynamics, but not visual range, and the total concentration such an effort demands at the expense of environment awareness, and sadly you have a lethal cocktail for a cycling nightmare.
 
To the bolded, you are absolutely out of your mind! In which world do you live? The number of wreckless cyclists is a fraction of irresponsible motorists, while the consequences for both are universally more disastrous for the riders. There are infinitely more motorists for one thing and for another generally speaking cyclists know correct behavior places their lives less at risk. The fact that some don't abide is rather beside the point. Although it certainly is not true that all cyclists on racing bikes violate traffic and safety rules. That's an absurd statement.

As to your hypothetical comment about had it been a child, which it wasn't let's not forget and thus the point is already moot; well there could only have been two reasons, both of which equally tragic. Either the child walked or stepped in front of the rider when he should not have or the rider didn't see the child when he should have. In the latter case, there is a trial in court for the guilty rider. But you are making a strawman argument.

The real problem with your affirmations, however, as I mentioned before, is the total lack of empathy for the plight of one who hurt no other than himself and the utter callousness with which you criticize him, based on no real evidence mind you, for being at fault. Nay you condemn him for being a wreckless irresponsible. In my world that's called douchebaggery.

PS. Let's suppose, for argument's sake, Egan unquestionably should have avoided hitting the bus, but failed to do so. Well, it's called a mistake (errare humanum est), a terrble error of distraction that apart from a dented bus only damaged the one who made it. Yet you placing all graveness squarely upon the mistake and none, with evident lack of empathy, on the dramatic human consequences, the broken body, the agonizing pain and suffering, is likewise called douchbaggery.
Where I live, there are far more cyclists then motorists on roads where both are allowed. And "the consequences" for cyclists have nothing to do with behaviour and responsability. One should think that sporty cyclists would therefore behave with care because they are vulnerable. But just the opposite happens. And again, I'm cyclist myself. So I know what I'm talking about. And I can judge objectively. Unlike yourself. Your arguments make no sense.
You defend riders who behave irresponsibly dangerous. Brandon Rivera, teammate of Bernal, fell yesterday and is now in the same hospital as Bernal. Again, it was the rider who was responsible for his own damage.

And now to the point. Who was "responsible" for the accident ? Bernal or the bus(driver) ? Well, I'm waiting for your no doubt clever answer. And again, what if a still child had stood there.
 
Have they trained on it before? Has anyone? Is it not a place where they go to do trial runs?
That part of town is very busy with buses. The problem that I have is using the TT bikes. They are hard to maneuver with. Whenever I drive around that area is complete stress. It can be very bad. If it is at a time with low traffic, cars go at high speed. It is speedsters paradise. When is busy it is a bus heaven. Just not a good idea.

I just saw carton reply. He simplified it better. Agreed with him/her.
 
That part of town is very busy with buses. The problem that I have is using the TT bikes. They are hard to maneuver with. Whenever I drive around that area is complete stress. It can be very bad. If it is at a time with low traffic, cars go at high speed. It is speedsters paradise. When is busy it is a bus heaven. Just not a good idea.

I just saw carton reply. He simplified it better. Agreed with him/her.
Agreed, yep it certainly does appear that it was a poor idea. Despite this, as Carton mentioned, it is still evidently frequently used by cyclists for TT practice. What's done is done, however, and the only thing that matters now is that A. he is still alive and B. he is not a paraplegic confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

Incidentally, through no fault of my own mind you, in 2014 on a road outside Rome that could not be avoided to get into the countryside, I was cut off by a delivery truck that turned right in front of me. I went head first into its side wall made of steel and fractured two vertebrae. Luckilly they were the D6 and D7, while going only about half the speed of Bernal. Had the factures been further up the spinal cord, I would have seriously risked total paralysis from the kneck down or even death. I was later awarded a sum at court from the culpable driver's insurance to compensate for the injuries and smashed bike (the frame snapped in half).

I thus can't imagine what Bernal's impact was like at 60 kph. :oops:
 
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Doing that in that highway is suicide IMHO. I am just puzzled!
Its not difficult to get complacent. I have to remind myself sometimes of risks. But pros do many more miles and hours than I do so complacency about risks is a bigger danger. The more you ride the more (over) confident you can get.

Certainly I wish Egan a quick and successful recovery.
 
Its not difficult to get complacent. I have to remind myself sometimes of risks. But pros do many more miles and hours than I do so complacency about risks is a bigger danger. The more you ride the more (over) confident you can get.

Certainly I wish Egan a quick and successful recovery.
I think you’ve made a really good point. I don’t want to speak specifically to Bernal’s crash because we know so little about it. But it’s not the 1st time that folks on here have brought up the issue of teams/ cyclists finding safer places to train so as to minimize accidents. I certainly would love for that to be the case. But I think sometimes folks forget that these pros are also, well, cyclists. Like many of us who get used to riding in all kinds of situations and conditions because that’s what riding entails. And it’s not willful ignorance; I know that people have been injured and a few killed on the routes that I take on my commute. And I despise how many car drivers treat or ignore cyclists. But I accept, to a degree, that it comes with the terrain. Those pros have spent so many more miles on their bikes in every possible scenario than most of us (perhaps with the notable exceptions of guys who came into it late), they probably think similarly—that it’s just the nature of the beast.
 
As someone once said, never argue with stupid people, for they will drag you down to their level and then beat you on experience.

You harping on about how irresponsible cyclists are in the context of the Bernal incident is utterly crass and base. While accusing those who empathize with his plight of "defending riders who behave irresponsibly," is asinine and absolutely pathetic, in addition to petty, heartless and meanspirited. For God's sakes man, the guy is in the hospital smashed to pieces and all you have to say is it's his own fault? According to your shallow and hairbrained reasoning, the main message/lesson we should all take from this is that riders are, like Bernal and Rivera, "responsible for their own damage?" Where is your compassion, your humanity?

That's just aweful. What a horrible, obtuse and boorish way of looking at the situation. Grow up! I've been cycling for 40 years (so probably before you were born); and I have never encountered a so-called cyclist with such an oafish, dimwitted and cretinous outlook, with such disdain for and low opinion of fellow cyclists with it. And I've certainly got nothing to learn from you mate. But what is there to expect from such lowbrow and moronic prose as yours, in which there does not reside a shred of intelligence, and is just cringeworthy to get though? Absolutly nothing or rather less than nothing. It's worth less than zero, 0.

PS. To answer your pathetic inquiries. There is no point in casting blame on anyone and frankly, under the circumstances, with a 25 year-old gentleman in an intensive care ward thanking God he's not dead or a paraplegic, I don't give a damn. Bernal made a mistake, if that's what you want to call it, a terrible one, horrific for himself. But he's not at "fault" because of it, if that's what you are callously pressing me to admit. He wasn't intentionally being irresponsible or cavalier. It was just an egregious mishap. He accidentally didn't see the bus, for a series of unfavorable circumstances that aligned at the worst moment with devastating effect. End of story. The problem is you not only show no concern whatsoever for the human side of a potential career ending tragedy, but without compunction use his misfortune, which for you is his "blameworthyness," to only announce your disdain for all "irresponsible cyclists." Bernal is thus, again like Rivera, "responsible for his own damage." That's not only an appalling show of poor character but vile blockheadedness. It's like badmouthing a corpse for having accidentally stepped in front of a moving bus, because the guy was distracted whilst responding to an urgent work message on WhatsApp. Sure one could note the horrible error of judgment, even the irreparable stupidity. But to use the self-disaster as a case in point to merely trash the person and indeed all people who irresponsibly use their cell phones, is unadulterated douchbaggery. I'm not even going to bother with the "what if it had been a child" scenario. You tell me, life in prison or the death sentence for Bernal? Would that even be enough?
What a stupid reaction again. Pidcock and Turner had the same incident/crash. And had almost to fear for their season. Read what Pidcock had to declare at the BBC in Fayeteville :

"Time trial bikes are becoming too dangerous for riders to train with on public roads, says Egan Bernal's Ineos team-mate Tom Pidcock.

Pidcock, 22, believes the serious injuries suffered by Bernal on Monday, and his own crash in June, could be a result of the riding position.

"Positions are getting more and more extreme and we spend more time trying to hold these positions," he said.

"You don't necessarily see where you're going."

Briton Pidcock worries that the crash - which has left 2019 Tour de France winner Bernal in intensive care following surgery on his spine and several other fractures - could also have been caused by riding a bike designed for pure speed rather than agility on the road.

Time trial bikes are used when riders compete separately against the clock, and require an aerodynamic, tucked position, in which riders must keep their head low and hold their hands directly out in front of them.

"It's evident now where it's getting quite dangerous," Pidcock told BBC Sport.

"I don't think we need to stop progressing, but think about how we can train in a safer way and try and mitigate these crashes.

"I crashed on a time trial bike, Ben [Turner, Ineos team-mate] crashed on a time trial bike. Egan's now crashed - it's getting quite extreme, the position. I think that's the biggest causes of the crashes recently."

Pidcock, who is one of the favourites to win the World Cyclo-cross Championship on Sunday, suffered a broken collarbone in a crash on a time trial bike during training in Andorra last year and missed the Tour of Switzerland as a result."

Well, Extintion, admit your wrong and ignorance now ! Oh, and I had my first racebike 53 years ago. I don't think you were born than.

The essence of my story is that I absolutely want prevention. To give an impetus, just like Pidcock, not to ride a time trial bike (and worse, in group !) on the crowded public roads in that way anymore. Which is much more important than feeling sorry for a victim who is the cause of his injuries . And as I did in previous interventions, I do wish Bernal a good recovery.
 
What a stupid reaction again. Pidcock and Turner had the same incident/crash. And had almost to fear for their season. Read what Pidcock had to declare at the BBC in Fayeteville :

"Time trial bikes are becoming too dangerous for riders to train with on public roads, says Egan Bernal's Ineos team-mate Tom Pidcock.

Pidcock, 22, believes the serious injuries suffered by Bernal on Monday, and his own crash in June, could be a result of the riding position.

"Positions are getting more and more extreme and we spend more time trying to hold these positions," he said.

"You don't necessarily see where you're going."

Briton Pidcock worries that the crash - which has left 2019 Tour de France winner Bernal in intensive care following surgery on his spine and several other fractures - could also have been caused by riding a bike designed for pure speed rather than agility on the road.

Time trial bikes are used when riders compete separately against the clock, and require an aerodynamic, tucked position, in which riders must keep their head low and hold their hands directly out in front of them.

"It's evident now where it's getting quite dangerous," Pidcock told BBC Sport.

"I don't think we need to stop progressing, but think about how we can train in a safer way and try and mitigate these crashes.

"I crashed on a time trial bike, Ben [Turner, Ineos team-mate] crashed on a time trial bike. Egan's now crashed - it's getting quite extreme, the position. I think that's the biggest causes of the crashes recently."

Pidcock, who is one of the favourites to win the World Cyclo-cross Championship on Sunday, suffered a broken collarbone in a crash on a time trial bike during training in Andorra last year and missed the Tour of Switzerland as a result."

Well, Extintion, admit your wrong and ignorance now ! Oh, and I had my first racebike 53 years ago. I don't think you were born than.

The essence of my story is that I absolutely want prevention. To give an impetus, just like Pidcock, not to ride a time trial bike (and worse, in group !) on the crowded public roads in that way anymore. Which is much more important than feeling sorry for a victim who is the cause of his injuries . And as I did in previous interventions, I do wish Bernal a good recovery.
It's a question of some damn humility and empathy for one's plight. And it's an issue of class in one's reaction to it, of which you have zero. Your arrogance and haughtiness is vile - oh Zoef-Lightning is here to make us all aware of the need for prevention! Well guess what Sherlock that's no mystery. To the bolded, no, before Bernal, right now it is more important to express first compassion for his personal drama (and here your insensitivity is appalling). It's called pietas. Besides the two are not mutually exclusive. In other words, but has this ever occured to your blockheaded mentatlity, it is quite possible to feel both empathy and a need for greater prevention.

Not only did you show no empathy, but were crass in pointing out, according to you, that Bernal (and Rivera) brought it upon himself. And you now claim the moral high ground. Pathetic. At any rate, your exalted attitude in pointing out what clearly we the concerned for his wellbeing are evidently too emotionally weak to recognize, merely displays a callous self-righteousness. Guess what dude, we inferiors actually know measures need to be taken to prevent such horrific incidents again. The first priority, however, is to show some simple human solidarity towards Egan and carefully chosen words, Saying Bernal was responsible for his own damage is the antithesis.
 
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