Teams & Riders The official Primož Roglič is the new Rominger thread

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A quick remark: I was watching on my telephone with bad internet, but I think I saw that Roglic's bike was being measured by the commissaires just before the start of the TT, and I remember they said something about the saddle being too close to the bottom bracket... So the team mechanic had to set back the saddle by some centimers?

Is this true? If so, I reckon this makes a BIG difference. Setback is the single most important parameter to get your legs going smoothly, especially in a TT. Too much setback than used to can easily result in building up much more lactic acid, less power and an overal uncomfortable feel on the TT bike.

I also see that Roglic was really on the tip of his (not looking very comfortable) saddle. Opinions appreciated (I can't find the little videoclip with his bike check, it was somewhere on twitter)!
Yeah, I'm surprised not more people mentioned it. In Dutch media the focus is on his helmet and the fact he couldn't wear the team's supersonic time trial suit, however I think the bike had a bigger impact. Although I only noticed him on the tip of the saddle while climbing, not sure what it was like on the TT bike.
 
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Roglic best time trial ever -> beating Remi Cavagna by 1 minute in a TT with a first category climb in it?
Good point. Seems the team are going with that story as well but I have my doubts about their comments. Supposedly this was close to Roglic's best possible TT shape. This guy is a world class TTer. Yet he was slower than Big Tam, Wout and even Little Richie? And matched Cavagna? And less than a minute faster than Caruso, Mas and De la Cruz?

And then we have Dumoulin saying he doesn't know how he can win another TT if this is the new standard. But the reality is he just shipped loads of time trying to wrestle up that climb on his heavy TT bike?

Jumbo are trying to make it sound like they performed at their best level and Pogacar's performance was the outlier. That seems only partially true to me.
Pogacar matching Dumoulin on that flat section is the most shocking part of his performance. Him climbing 20s faster than Richie and 40s(?) faster than Van Aert isn't strange. So sure, Pogacar's insanely strong TT exaggerated the differences, but I believe neither Tom nor Roglic reached their full potential in this TT. They can do a lot better. Roglic, in his best shape, should have matched Tom's time on the flat and climbed as fast or faster than Wout on the climb. Which would easily put him within a minute from Pogacar. Just my 2c.
 
Yeah, I'm surprised not more people mentioned it. In Dutch media the focus is on his helmet and the fact he couldn't wear the team's supersonic time trial suit, however I think the bike had a bigger impact. Although I only noticed him on the tip of the saddle while climbing, not sure what it was like on the TT bike.
Seriously though. They apparently took about two years desingning this helmet. Whoever spent 2 years of his life on this monstrosity should seriously consider changing his job. Even in "full mode" it looked pretty bad, but when the visor came off... my god, I have not seen anyhing so ugly since the Tinkoff jersey in the 2015 Tour. And I may not be an expert in aerodynamics, but no one is going to convince me that half broken yellow egshell, sitting 10 centimeters too high on the head and looking uncomortable in all sorts of ways, is quicker then the beautiful looking helmet they used before.

Even after the big defeat Roglič had the energy to joke about having to wear that horrid excuse for a helmet on his head.
 
Seriously though. They apparently took about two years desingning this helmet. Whoever spent 2 years of his life on this monstrosity should seriously consider changing his job. Even in "full mode" it looked pretty bad, but when the visor came off... my god, I have not seen anyhing so ugly since the Tinkoff jersey in the 2015 Tour. And I may not be an expert in aerodynamics, but no one is going to convince me that half broken yellow egshell, sitting 10 centimeters too high on the head and looking uncomortable in all sorts of ways, is quicker then the beautiful looking helmet they used before.

Even after the big defeat Roglič had the energy to joke about having to wear that horrid excuse for a helmet on his head.
I just can't believe they were *** around with that stuff. Similarly for the suits and bikes IMO but that's on stupendous regulations.
 
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Seriously though. They apparently took about two years desingning this helmet. Whoever spent 2 years of his life on this monstrosity should seriously consider changing his job. Even in "full mode" it looked pretty bad, but when the visor came off... my god, I have not seen anyhing so ugly since the Tinkoff jersey in the 2015 Tour. And I may not be an expert in aerodynamics, but no one is going to convince me that half broken yellow egshell, sitting 10 centimeters too high on the head and looking uncomortable in all sorts of ways, is quicker then the beautiful looking helmet they used before.

Even after the big defeat Roglič had the energy to joke about having to wear that horrid excuse for a helmet on his head.
Yeah, the helmet looked like a joke, and I read some comments that the helmet looked wobbly even during the first part of the TT. Fortunately aerodynamics are of little concern on such a climb, and with the visor on the helmet looked fine in terms of aerodynamics. However, we have to consider the psychological aspect of an ill-fitting helmet as well, I can imagine that with the stress associated with defending your yellow jersey in the final stage, you'd want everything to be perfect. The helmet could easily have been an extra factor that put him even more out of his comfort zone.
 
After another day to think about it, I think Roglic actually rode as good as he was going to be able to ride on stage 20, given all circumstances. In the end, after having gone into red on the climb knowing Poga's numbers, he probably lost 20-30 seconds on what he might have done if he did not have to go into the red (all just my speculation). Those 20-30 seconds would have put him right there with Dumoulin and Porte. And that still would have been a half minute short of holding onto yellow. I've heard reactions from commentators, cyclists, and fans who describe Rog's TT as a collapse. I see it differently. A collapse would be placing somewhere below 10th place (and for some GC riders, a 10th place result would be very good).
 
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After another day to think about it, I think Roglic actually rode as good as he was going to be able to ride on stage 20, given all circumstances. In the end, after having gone into red on the climb knowing Poga's numbers, he probably lost 20-30 seconds on what he might have done if he did not have to go into the red (all just my speculation). Those 20-30 seconds would have put him right there with Dumoulin and Porte. And that still would have been a half minute short of holding onto yellow. I've heard reactions from commentators, cyclists, and fans who describe Rog's TT as a collapse. I see it differently. A collapse would be placing somewhere below 10th place (and for some GC riders, a 10th place result would be very good).
I was one of the biggest believers in Rogla and in his strong TT before the stage. I thought there wasn't enough evidence that he fades in the 3rd week of a GT like some rumours suggested. And on the climbs before the ITT there was no sign of him fading. But to be honest I think he underperformed. He didn't collapse but considering the form he showed during the Tour I (and I think many others) expected him to be 30s-50s faster. The problem is even that wouldn't be enough against Pogačar's crazy performance. The defeat would be only more bitter because the gap would be just a handful of seconds or so.
 
I was one of the biggest believers in Rogla and in his strong TT before the stage. I thought there wasn't enough evidence that he fades in the 3rd week of a GT like some rumours suggested. And on the climbs before the ITT there was no sign of him fading. But to be honest I think he underperformed. He didn't collapse but considering the form he showed during the Tour I (and I think many others) expected him to be 30s-50s faster. The problem is even that wouldn't be enough against Pogačar's crazy performance. The defeat would be only more bitter because the gap would be just a handful of seconds or so.
I think his performance on the flat part of the ITT was in line or slightly sub-par compared to his normal ITTs.

But his time on the climb suggests he was physically, or mentally, on the verge of collapsing. He set the 11th fastest time on the climb. Had he ever been the 11th best climber during the previous 19 stages? I struggle to think of a stage where he wasn't one of the 2-3 best climber honestly.
He lost time to Mas, Bilbao, Landa, Soler, Barguil. All riders he had comfortably dropped whenever the road went up during the Tour.
He lost a minute to Richie Porte. He just needed to match Porte's time on the climb to win the Tour.

So yes, Pogacar had a historically good performance.
But at the same time Roglic could still limit his losses if he rode at his normal level, which he clearly didn't.
Both things can be true.
 
Posted this in a different thread but more relevant here.



I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. He performed significantly better in comparison to Dumoulin than he previously had, for example:
  • 2017: 57 seconds behind Dumoulin over 31km in WC (1.8s/km)
  • 2018: 72 seconds behind Dumoulin over 31km in the Tour (2.3s/km)
  • 2020: 35 seconds behind Dumoulin over 36km in the Tour (.9s/kim)
Also, he performed better compared to a selection of challengers from last year's Giro:
  • 2019: 17 seconds behind Caruso, 9 seconds behind Bilbao over 17km in the Giro
  • 2020: 33 seconds ahead of Caruso, 84 seconds ahead of Bilbao over 36km in the Tour
In counterpoint, he did worse compared to Cavagna, though not significantly so.
  • 2019: 27 seconds ahead of Cavagna in Vuelta
  • 2020: 3 seconds ahead of Cavagna in Tour
 
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He wasn't 100% for sure. He said himself he had bad legs that day, so bad day in combination of going into red and mental breakdown when he was clearly loosing the race were all factors here. He's not making excuses, he wasn't good enough in stage 20 and he lost. He'll be back.
 
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Posted this in a different thread but more relevant here.



I wouldn't be surprised if this is true. He performed significantly better in comparison to Dumoulin than he previously had, for example:
  • 2017: 57 seconds behind Dumoulin over 31km in WC (1.8s/km)
  • 2018: 72 seconds behind Dumoulin over 31km in the Tour (2.3s/km)
  • 2020: 35 seconds behind Dumoulin over 36km in the Tour (.9s/kim)
Also, he performed better compared to a selection of challengers from last year's Giro:
  • 2019: 17 seconds behind Caruso, 9 seconds behind Bilbao over 17km in the Giro
  • 2020: 33 seconds ahead of Caruso, 84 seconds ahead of Bilbao over 36km in the Tour
In counterpoint, he did worse compared to Cavagna, though not significantly so.
  • 2019: 27 seconds ahead of Cavagna in Vuelta
  • 2020: 3 seconds ahead of Cavagna in Tour
Dumoulin made a tactical change that cost him at least 30s on the climb so he didn't performed significantly better than Dumoulin.
 
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Roglic had a slow bike change in my view. The mechanic seemed to take about 3 attempts to actually get the bike off the rack and the car stopped further away from Roglic than seemed necessary. That might have cost him an extra 10 seconds, but nowhere near what he lost.

As far as Porte is concerned, he might have deliberately paced himself to be slower on the flat and have a lot in reserve for the climb. He probably saw early on that he was gaining massively on Lopez and didn't need to go deep into the red before the climb.
 
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Dumoulin made a tactical change that cost him at least 30s on the climb so he didn't performed significantly better than Dumoulin.
OK so even if you subtract some seconds from Tom's time (though, if you're assuming a good bike change you might want to also subtract some from Roglic's), that still keeps you right in line with previous Dumoulin/Roglic ratios in ITTs.

Everyone citing that he was 11th on the climb is ignoring the fact that he was getting splits showing Pogacar riding away from him on the flat and thus emptying himself to stay close, and then at some point on the climb he realized he had lost and still had to ride in.

Meanwhile, some of those ahead either rode significantly slower on the flats (Porte) or seemed to more or less just cruise then hit the KOM hard (Carapaz, Quintana). I agree I am surprised that Wout was faster on the climb, and by a large margin, but then again, I am surprised that so many kept pace or exceeded Wout on the flats, so I guess he just rode conservatively to ensure he had enough for the climb.
 
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I understand Roglic wanted to redeem himself with a win this year, but Big Tom did everything to get that win for Roglic. He deserves leadership. I wouldn't expect Roglic to dom for him, though, unless he looks short of the needed shape early.
 
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