The Patrick Lefevere Depreciation Thread

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I see that as a very likely scenario, only my judgement on it is completely different. If you have a rider on your payroll you no longer want for performance or strategical reasons or combined, but that rider has shown motivation and will and been working for the team but has had to deal with lots of disappointments and bad luck it is extremely bad style to try to badmouth him, annoy him, so you get rid of him before his contract is up. Just saying "that's business" doesn't work for me. Sure, many people act like that, that doesn't make it any better.
Where have you, and others, even gotten this from? Nonsense assumptions that should have no place whatsoever in this entire discussion.
 
@Berniece

For sure they would like that. But then on the other hand Alaphilippe might have some issues with that. To be considered as being less paid super dom for Evenepoel. It's not just about GT's.

In the end that decision is ultimately up to him. Then again who knows on how things will stand at the end of 2023 season.
 
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So... assumptions.

"Days later, Alaphilippe told L’Equipe the question of “changing horizons” never arose, adding Lefevere “never said such things to my face”. However, in his Velofollies interview, Lefevere disputed that account of their conversation, insisting he did raise the idea of the rider leaving and did so with other witnesses present. "

You may call it assumptions. I call it reading.
 

"Days later, Alaphilippe told L’Equipe the question of “changing horizons” never arose, adding Lefevere “never said such things to my face”. However, in his Velofollies interview, Lefevere disputed that account of their conversation, insisting he did raise the idea of the rider leaving and did so with other witnesses present. "

You may call it assumptions. I call it reading.
What the hell? You're sharing fake news. He never said this in Velofollies, lol.
 
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This is where, once again, things just get lost in translation, resulting in fake quotes and none-existent fuss. So stupid and boring. What Lefevere really said is confirming that a conversation took place regarding his underperformance(s). Op scherp zetten, putting someone on edge, roughly translated. It had nothing to do with leaving, transfers or whatever. But these clown websites just run with it, because why not.
 
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I see that as a very likely scenario, only my judgement on it is completely different. If you have a rider on your payroll you no longer want for performance or strategical reasons or combined, but that rider has shown motivation and will and been working for the team but has had to deal with lots of disappointments and bad luck it is extremely bad style to try to badmouth him, annoy him, so you get rid of him before his contract is up. Just saying "that's business" doesn't work for me. Sure, many people act like that, that doesn't make it any better.
Lefevere comments on e.g. Alaphilippe, because the press asks him questions, and Lefevere answers those questions straight.
I can understand you don't like him for being to open / transparent, but at least he's not overly diplomatic / avoiding answering. He just says what he thinks. And everybody, at this point, should be wise enough to cope with Lefevere's antics, i.e. the cycling fans, the riders, the press. You just know that what he says, is how he sees things.

People getting annoyed with Lefevere in cycling are like people living next to an airport: yes it makes a lot of noise and you would rather have it disappear, but you know the airport was first, so stop complaining.
The moment he's out of cycling or dead, you'll gonna miss him :D
 
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This is where, once again, things just get lost in translation, resulting in fake quotes and none-existent fuss. So stupid and boring. What Lefevere really said is confirming that a conversation took place regarding his underperformance(s). Op scherp zetten, putting someone on edge, roughly translated. It had nothing to do with leaving, transfers or whatever. But these clown websites just run with it, because why not.
Okay, I don't know if that is made up.
 
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Lefevere comments on e.g. Alaphilippe, because the press asks him questions, and Lefevere answers those questions straight.
I can understand you don't like him for being to open / transparent, but at least he's not overly diplomatic / avoiding answering. He just says what he thinks. And everybody, at this point, should be wise enough to cope with Lefevere's antics, i.e. the cycling fans, the riders, the press. You just know that what he says, is how he sees things.

People getting annoyed with Lefevere in cycling are like people living next to an airport: yes it makes a lot of noise and you would rather have it disappear, but you know the airport was first, so stop complaining.
The moment he's out of cycling or dead, you'll gonna miss him :D
Nonsense. I love transparency and I like people being direct and open. I usually am myself and have been called weird for that reason myself. But there's a difference between being direct and open and being an a**. You can be open and direct and still have respect for people who did nothing bad.
 
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You don't motivate people by embarrassing them or calling them out publicly.
First of all, embarrassment is a feeling of an individual and therefore not your call to make whether that is present here. Secondly, you can very much motivate someone by calling them out publicly.

You see, people are different and, as such, respond differently to events. Some people require a soft touch, some people require a verbal punch on the nose. Was Lefevere right in his judgement that Alain Philippe requires the latter? We simply don't know and only time will tell.
 
We simply don't know and only time will tell.
Time will not tell.
If Ala wins 2 monuments and some tour stages, you will say its because of Pat's exceptional motivational skills.
But maybe Ala is on a contract year and works extra hard for big money???

I respect Pat's magic touch, but his behaviour could well bite him in the butt. He's lucky he works for some cycling benefactor and not a public company
 
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I'm not sure if I understand all of this:

"PL is an enigma"
"PL is a narcisistic megalomaniac "
"PL creates an atmosphere of rancour towards everyone but their own team"

My view:
PL is very transparent (even a bit too much), and very open in his communication. He is (on purpose) not diplomatic in his wording, because he wants no one to have any misunderstandings about what he thinks. He is narcisistic, but he's getting older and doesn't care as much about his appearance. Running a big team with limited money, he is far from megalomaniac. I would argue he is (overrationally) realistic in what he can achieve with his budget / people / riders. The only one I know PL created an atmosphere of rancour against, was Sam Bennett.
With regards to Alaphilippe: after 3 years with almost no wins, and Alaphilippe more crashing than anything, it's normal to have a good conversation and reset the mental ambitions of a rider with such a salary: you expect such a rider to be a leading example / inspiration for the whole team, and not a liability as said above...
A good conversation privately, between men, is one thing; but airing your insults publicly, no matter the budget difficulties, etc., makes you look unsavory. That he couldn't care less, only makes him seem like Don Patrick, the Godfather. Although he probably relishes over the fact.
 
Lefevere comments on e.g. Alaphilippe, because the press asks him questions, and Lefevere answers those questions straight.
I can understand you don't like him for being to open / transparent, but at least he's not overly diplomatic / avoiding answering. He just says what he thinks. And everybody, at this point, should be wise enough to cope with Lefevere's antics, i.e. the cycling fans, the riders, the press. You just know that what he says, is how he sees things.

People getting annoyed with Lefevere in cycling are like people living next to an airport: yes it makes a lot of noise and you would rather have it disappear, but you know the airport was first, so stop complaining.
The moment he's out of cycling or dead, you'll gonna miss him :D
I'm definitely not going to miss him.
 
I'm not sure if I understand all of this:

"PL is an enigma"
"PL is a narcisistic megalomaniac "
"PL creates an atmosphere of rancour towards everyone but their own team"

My view:
PL is very transparent (even a bit too much), and very open in his communication. He is (on purpose) not diplomatic in his wording, because he wants no one to have any misunderstandings about what he thinks. He is narcisistic, but he's getting older and doesn't care as much about his appearance. Running a big team with limited money, he is far from megalomaniac. I would argue he is (overrationally) realistic in what he can achieve with his budget / people / riders. The only one I know PL created an atmosphere of rancour against, was Sam Bennett.
With regards to Alaphilippe: after 3 years with almost no wins, and Alaphilippe more crashing than anything, it's normal to have a good conversation and reset the mental ambitions of a rider with such a salary: you expect such a rider to be a leading example / inspiration for the whole team, and not a liability as said above...
Or conversely, instead of applying pressure on Alaphilippe to get better results (which is what your interpretation implies), Lefevere is simply trashing the rider because the real underlying objective is he wants him off the wage bill.

I read it that way because there's not much actual 'scientific' evidence which demonstrates the public relations tactic employed here by Lefevere towards Alaphilippe (trash talk, basically) could actually result in better results this year or a more motivated rider.

"You suck, you're paid to do better" is not exactly a proven track record in terms of extracting better performances from a sportsman. But it can be used to plant the seeds of divorce (or at least a lower contract for a domestique role).
 
Here is the original interview, during the team presentation (PL in bold):

How is Alaphilippe doing? Did your words (that he has something to show) get through?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And you look very serious.
Yes I am serious.
Was it a serious conversation?
Yes, the conversation stuck (to the ribs as we say in Dutch).
Was his honor being touched?
If it wasn't his (feel of) honor being touched, it would be his wallet. If you get paid like Julian, it's to perform."
"He's had bad luck, but you can't hide everything behind that. I want to see the Julian of two years ago again."

Are you then very hard and saying that only results count, or are you OK if you look at it in perspective and see he is showing the flashes (of before), is it also OK (enough)?
"You know we have a warm heart for Julien, we all love him very much, I'm the first in the team to love him. He has been riding for this team since he was 17 and thus there can be a small moment of saturation. So I made it clear to him that he could leave if he was tired of the environment as I can't do anything with a rider who has had it (with the team). But we had a very good conversation about that and he was absolutely not done with the team. He wanted to stay with the team."

So what does it say...? You tell me.
 
Here is the original interview, during the team presentation (PL in bold):

How is Alaphilippe doing? Did your words (that he has something to show) get through?
Absolutely. Absolutely.
And you look very serious.
Yes I am serious.
Was it a serious conversation?
Yes, the conversation stuck (to the ribs as we say in Dutch).
Was his honor being touched?
If it wasn't his (feel of) honor being touched, it would be his wallet. If you get paid like Julian, it's to perform."
"He's had bad luck, but you can't hide everything behind that. I want to see the Julian of two years ago again."

Are you then very hard and saying that only results count, or are you OK if you look at it in perspective and see he is showing the flashes (of before), is it also OK (enough)?
"You know we have a warm heart for Julien, we all love him very much, I'm the first in the team to love him. He has been riding for this team since he was 17 and thus there can be a small moment of saturation. So I made it clear to him that he could leave if he was tired of the environment as I can't do anything with a rider who has had it (with the team). But we had a very good conversation about that and he was absolutely not done with the team. He wanted to stay with the team."

So what does it say...? You tell me.
He's concerned about Alaphilippe being saturated and not doing enough for his and the team's results. And if he doesn't do better it will show in his payment. Since there is no way to simply cut his wages with an ongoing contract this is either about the next contract - but why should this be such an important matter at this point, if the contract is still for two years, that you need to have a talk in the presence of the manager? Doesn't make sense.
Or he wants him to leave early if he doesn't bring the results now.
If I thought PL was only acting strategically I would say it's to prepare the public and get them on his side for an upcoming fight, but it's probably a way to apply pressure on Alaphilippe to look for a new team before 2024.

Or he's simply really old school and stupid and thinks you will perform better and not crash if you are trashed. With everything I dislike about PL I never got the feeling he's stupid, though.
 
He's concerned about Alaphilippe being saturated and not doing enough for his and the team's results. And if he doesn't do better it will show in his payment. Since there is no way to simply cut his wages with an ongoing contract this is either about the next contract - but why should this be such an important matter at this point, if the contract is still for two years, that you need to have a talk in the presence of the manager? Doesn't make sense.
Or he wants him to leave early if he doesn't bring the results now.
If I thought PL was only acting strategically I would say it's to prepare the public and get them on his side for an upcoming fight, but it's probably a way to apply pressure on Alaphilippe to look for a new team before 2024.

Or he's simply really old school and stupid and thinks you will perform better and not crash if you are trashed. With everything I dislike about PL I never got the feeling he's stupid, though.
he didn’t say he threatened to cut his salary; He made it clear that JA is under more scrutiny if not performing, because he has a high salary, and in that context he asked him if he was still motivated as he understands riders can get mentally tired sticking in a team so long.
 
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