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The Performance Enhancement Thread

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CoachFergie

CoachFergie

Apr 21, 2009
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Keen to start some discussion about cycling looking at it from a measurable performance enhancement perspective. What works and where should we invest our time to, as David Brailsford is fond of saying, aggregate those marginal gains. Also to arm people with information about how to assess the huge amount of information available so people can make informed decisions.

In 2001 Dr Asker Jeukendrup published a paper in Sports Medicine asking "where should we spend our time and resources" and this was well summarised here...

http://www.cyclesportcoaching.com/Files/HowToSpendMoney.pdf

In 2003 Prof Will Hopkins wrote an excellent article for his sportsci.org website about finding out what was known.

http://www.sportsci.org/jour/03/Finding_out_whats_known.pdf

In light of regular spammer's and forum troll's here I would just like to highlight the following segment...

Bad Sources: Anecdotes
• "I tried it and it works!"
• Some great discoveries first develop this way, but be skeptical.
• What works for one person may not work for another.
• The person may use hype to impress you with his/her
experience/knowledge/insight/helpfulness.
• Anything new or different sometimes works, either because of the
novelty (Hawthorne) effect or the placebo effect (belief that it
works).
• OK, so it still works, but it usually wears off.
• For health or performance of individuals, regression to the mean
can make something work artifactually.
• When you feel bad you try something.
• But statistically you're likely to get better then anyway.
• So you will think that what you tried made you better
Click to expand...

Since the start of the new Millennium the number of Sport Science Journals and sports related papers in Physiology, Biomechanics and Psychology journals has sky rocketed allowing us to assess various claims and estimate the effects of numerous interventions on performance.

This provides a base of evidence that we can apply directly in many cases or at least provide a physiological or mechanical basis to frame further questions and assessment of performance improvement questions.
 
swuzzlebubble

swuzzlebubble

Nov 2, 2009
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CoachFergie said:
But doing high intensity intervals will not build base fitness or chronic training load. This base helps with recovery from intense efforts and training sessions allowing you to perform more of them. That is why we periodise alternating building fitness and then adding short term power ensuring a rider has the ability to go the distance, has the power to race and the ability to recover from efforts within the race or between stages.
Click to expand...

Hi Coach,
I picked the quote above from another thread but will ask my question here.
Just in relation to younger juniors (<J15), where race distances are fairly limited, is it fair to say that you'd get enough 'base' from HIT sessions anyway.
IE race distances generally under half an hour.
HIT sessions usually at least that long anyway?
I ask as I notice club training here (AU) tends to have a lot of endurance focus and consequently HIT that gets mixed in is done sub-maximal.
 
CoachFergie

CoachFergie

Apr 21, 2009
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swuzzlebubble said:
Hi Coach,
I picked the quote above from another thread but will ask my question here.
Just in relation to younger juniors (<J15), where race distances are fairly limited, is it fair to say that you'd get enough 'base' from HIT sessions anyway.
IE race distances generally under half an hour.
HIT sessions usually at least that long anyway?
I ask as I notice club training here (AU) tends to have a lot of endurance focus and consequently HIT that gets mixed in is done sub-maximal.
Click to expand...

I do coach a lot of well performed U15 riders here. They don't do any structured training, just riding in a group focused on tactical and technical skills.
 
CoachFergie

CoachFergie

Apr 21, 2009
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swuzzlebubble said:
How does one arrive at an appropriate ramp rate for a given cyclist (in terms of PMC planning). Also at what point would you review the ramp rate up or down?
Click to expand...

Are we talking U15s and U17s? I don't get into the level of micro-management of the physical training process with U19s. I obviously use the knowledge I have from working with elites and U23s but at that age you are teaching them to judge their effort and manage their training loads with things like resting heart rate and watching their performances relative to others (keeping in mind the vastly different rates of maturation).
 
swuzzlebubble

swuzzlebubble

Nov 2, 2009
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I'm asking generally but will consider the answers in regards to my J13.
Not so much to set a traning plan but rather to monitor workload.
IE How much is enough and how much is too much.

We have the PM and not the HRM.
So just looking to make best use of it.
 
CoachFergie

CoachFergie

Apr 21, 2009
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Sorry, but when thinking performance enhancement with 13 year olds, even ones I think can win National titles, or ones who think they can win National titles my only criteria is are they having fun.
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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CoachFergie said:
Sorry, but when thinking performance enhancement with 13 year olds, even ones I think can win National titles, or ones who think they can win National titles my only criteria is are they having fun.
Click to expand...

Cannot emphasize this enough.

Thanks to Strava I see way too much volume with < 18YO on the "USA Cycling development system."

Children need more recovery time so their bodies and minds grow appropriately.
 
swuzzlebubble

swuzzlebubble

Nov 2, 2009
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DirtyWorks said:
Children need more recovery time so their bodies and minds grow appropriately.
Click to expand...
This is what I'm getting at.
And I'm choosing to use tools such as PMC to keep an eye on it.
I'd like some reason for if our "training" ride is to be 30mins or 90mins, given club racing etc that may also be on.
 
CoachFergie

CoachFergie

Apr 21, 2009
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swuzzlebubble said:
This is what I'm getting at.
And I'm choosing to use tools such as PMC to keep an eye on it.
I'd like some reason for if our "training" ride is to be 30mins or 90mins, given club racing etc that may also be on.
Click to expand...

13 year olds should not train.

They most certainly should not train so hard they need a PMC to keep things in check.

FUN!!!

When they hit 14, yeah sure smash the crap out of em!!!
 
J

JayKosta

Nov 25, 2010
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The amount of fatigue for the remainder of the day of a session, and for following days can be a guide.

If not fully recovered and feeling good for the next session, then the sessions are too intense, or not adequate recovery time. Also watch for declining performance, regardless of what the rider claims.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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swuzzlebubble said:
This is what I'm getting at.
And I'm choosing to use tools such as PMC to keep an eye on it.
I'd like some reason for if our "training" ride is to be 30mins or 90mins, given club racing etc that may also be on.
Click to expand...


Per JayKosta's good idea, if you want to turn cycling into a teachable experience, have the kids track their enthusiasm in a log along with making/accomplishing a goal or two for themselves. Lots of universal skills taught in that little exercise.

The competitive cycling culture seems to get very romantic about lots of time in the saddle. When dealing with kids, you really have to be careful about keeping the volume and intensity in check. Someone needs to track that, not the kids, but a parent or maybe you?

Also, don't forget the skills. Practice cornering, contact, looking back and holding a line, etc. That's not intense at all and key to success.
 
CoachFergie

CoachFergie

Apr 21, 2009
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Alex Simmons/RST said:
Why is the one and only ever product innovation that guarantees a 40% improvement in cyclist's power output not on the list?
Click to expand...

And where is the evidence that a compact crank improves performance?

From an excellent discussion session at WCSS we know the Biological Passport has led to a decrease of performances!!!
 
CoachFergie

CoachFergie

Apr 21, 2009
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Pedal like a skater and improve 7%;)

http://www.nikolainnovation.com/

LAB TESTED. ROAD PROVEN.

Initial testing has been completed through Cleveland State University (CSU) Human Performance Lab by Dr. Ken Sparks PhD. Test results of nearly 2/3rds of the male riders showed a range of performance improvements in Net Efficiency or Peak Power.
Click to expand...

2/3rds showed a range of performance improvements? Thats, ummm, scientific.
 
C

coapman

Mar 10, 2009
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berend said:
Wouldn't that require that outwards motion actually produces forward momentum? These pedals just allow outward motion. Just loosen your shoe?



nearly half didn't show any improvement.
Click to expand...

It would also require the leg muscles to apply maximal 3 o'c torque in two different directions at the same time. Another problem would be the speed skater's body position, it corresponds to a cyclist's out of saddle position. It does not say if any got negative results while using these pedals.
 
J

JamesCun

Jun 1, 2014
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coapman said:
It would also require the leg muscles to apply maximal 3 o'c torque in two different directions at the same time. Another problem would be the speed skater's body position, it corresponds to a cyclist's out of saddle position. It does not say if any got negative results while using these pedals.
Click to expand...

I think that is the point. Increase the number of muscles working since you add to the linear motion with another axis of movement.
 
C

coapman

Mar 10, 2009
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JamesCun said:
I think that is the point. Increase the number of muscles working since you add to the linear motion with another axis of movement.
Click to expand...

Any force applied in that direction will have reduced tangential effect.
 
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