Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[CyclistAbi]

Yeah I am just curious of how much they will improve and how much they can close the gap to Visma and UAE

If you take team leaders away then UAE and Visma as a team are in my opinion well in reach. As for Rogla vs Pogi and Jonas, as here is where UAE and Visma really shine ATM, i don't feel Pogi will be able to afford 100km solo rides in 2025 season and Jonas will in my opinion be much more vulnerable to potential mistakes, especially due to all the pressure Jonas is now under. Rogla and Red Bull will come prepared good and will be waiting to capitalize on that. So all in all likely for Red Bull to dethrone UAE and Visma in the 2025 season.

 

[MLKarlos]

Visma | Lease a Bike verliest belangrijkste voedingsdeskundige aan Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe

Voedingsdeskundige Asker Jeukendrup verlaat Visma | Lease a Bike om aan de slag te gaan bij Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe. De geboren Limburger is een autoriteit op voedingsgebied en al jarenlang verbonden als professor aan de Loughborough University. Bij Red Bull had hij eerder al andere sporten...

www.wielerflits.nl

Puh, could be a gem! I consider Visma as top tear in regards to nutrition.
I like the staff hirings they did so far.

 

[theyoungest]

Visma | Lease a Bike verliest belangrijkste voedingsdeskundige aan Red Bull - BORA - hansgrohe

Voedingsdeskundige Asker Jeukendrup verlaat Visma | Lease a Bike om aan de slag te gaan bij Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe. De geboren Limburger is een autoriteit op voedingsgebied en al jarenlang verbonden als professor aan de Loughborough University. Bij Red Bull had hij eerder al andere sporten...

www.wielerflits.nl

Puh, could be a gem! I consider Visma as top tear in regards to nutrition.
I like the staff hirings they did so far.

It's not really a hire, he already worked for the Red Bull sports empire so he came into a contract conflict when he was still working for Visma and Red Bull joined a cycling team. But his knowledge was probably already available to them.

 

[MLKarlos]

hm, I doubt that.
He was working at Red Bull Performance Center, that is true. But if he would have shared details of his work for VISMA, I am pretty sure this would have caused imense legal troubles.

 

[theyoungest]

hm, I doubt that.
He was working at Red Bull Performance Center, that is true. But if he would have shared details of his work for VISMA, I am pretty sure this would have caused imense legal troubles.

He's more of an adviser, not the actual team nutritionist. I don't know if he's really going into the nitty-gritty of Vingegaard's nutrition plan, for instance. I think he's trying to avoid a possible conflict of interest by quitting Visma, but he who works for a lot of entities. FC Barcelona, PSV, the Dutch national team, and Red Bull Salzburg are others. It's pretty much unavoidable that there's some overlap in the information he shares with all these clients.

 

[RedheadDane]

He's more of an adviser, not the actual team nutritionist. I don't know if he's really going into the nitty-gritty of Vingegaard's nutrition plan, for instance.

I suppose it's possible he mostly worked with Van Aert; the Red Bull athlete riding for Visma...

 

[theyoungest]

I suppose it's possible he mostly worked with Van Aert; the Red Bull athlete riding for Visma...

Asker Jeukendrup already worked for Visma when Van Aert wasn't on the team yet. So no. It looks like at Red Bull Hansgrohe he'll actually get a bigger job than at Visma, more of a management role.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Dr. Tim Podlogar: Primož je kot perfekcionist želel, da so stvari urejene tako, kot je treba. Ima prav in tako bi moralo biti.

"V letošnji sezoni je bilo zaradi prihoda Primoža Rogliča v ekipo izjemno stresno. Kot Slovenec sem čutil še dodaten pritisk, saj se od Primoža vedno veliko pričakuje, in bil bi izjemno razočaran, če bi bila prehrana tista, ki bi mu onemogočila doseči cilje," je v pogovoru za Sportal poudaril...

siol.net

Tim Podlogar shared some thoughts on this subject and acknowledged that in 2024 season things were not optimal in terms of nutrition. The whole implemented system was a step or two behind in comparison to Rogličes previous team. With signing Asker the idea therefore for sure is to step things up, goal likely being to match Visma or to do better.

P.S. On a side note Podlogar doesn't believe ketones are proven to be beneficial and doesn't believe cyclists are using carbon monoxide rebreathers to improve performance, due to that simply being too dangerous.

 

[theyoungest]

Dr. Tim Podlogar: Primož je kot perfekcionist želel, da so stvari urejene tako, kot je treba. Ima prav in tako bi moralo biti.

"V letošnji sezoni je bilo zaradi prihoda Primoža Rogliča v ekipo izjemno stresno. Kot Slovenec sem čutil še dodaten pritisk, saj se od Primoža vedno veliko pričakuje, in bil bi izjemno razočaran, če bi bila prehrana tista, ki bi mu onemogočila doseči cilje," je v pogovoru za Sportal poudaril...

siol.net

Tim Podlogar shared some thoughts on this subject and acknowledged that in 2024 season things were not optimal in terms of nutrition. The whole implemented system was a step or two behind in comparison to Rogličes previous team. With signing Asker the idea therefore for sure is to step things up, goal likely being to match Visma or to do better.

P.S. On a side note Podlogar doesn't believe ketones are proven to be beneficial and doesn't believe cyclists are using carbon monoxide rebreathers to improve performance, due to that simply being too dangerous.

I think this team is finding out about the Johan Cruyff adage, "a bag of money can't score a goal". You can't just poach personnel here and there and then figure out what to do with them. You need a proper plan behind it.

 

[pastronef]

I think this team is finding out about the Johan Cruyff adage, "a bag of money can't score a goal". You can't just poach personnel here and there and then figure out what to do with them. You need a proper plan behind it.

they have a plan for 2025, but I agree with the quote regarding the 2024 season.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I think this team is finding out about the Johan Cruyff adage, "a bag of money can't score a goal". You can't just poach personnel here and there and then figure out what to do with them. You need a proper plan behind it.

I agree that a bag of money is not a guarantee to be successful in sports but in this specific case i don't feel this applies in such way. That is if you will read the given article it's mentioned that a bag of money was not yet available in the 2024 season. Head of nutrition for the 2024 season Podlogar admitting nutrition system as a whole was a step or two behind the one implemented at Visma. Said all that the team still won one GT and finished second in another in the 2024 season. Without a bag of money involved and with lacking nutrition system implemented among some other things missing or better lacking.

So poaching Asker Jeukendrup, head of nutrition at Visma, this in my opinion can't be perceived as some random act of spending money. We all know Visma is top notch, on where it comes to nutrition and their head of nutrition must know a thing or two about it.

Along with the addition of a bag of money they poached aerodynamic specialist, will have access to modern RB equipment and facilities and know how ... All this was more or less not available in the 2024 season. So in my opinion there is a proper plan unfolding and the results will start to show in the 2025 season. Nutrition is one of the most important aspects of pro road cycling and getting this right can by itself determine the outcome of some race. This area should hence now be covered, proper nutrition system to be implemented.

 

[MLKarlos]

I agree that a bag of money is not a guarantee to be successful in sports but in this specific case i don't feel this applies in such way. That is if you will read the given article it's mentioned that a bag of money was not yet available in the 2024 season. Head of nutrition for the 2024 season Podlogar admitting nutrition system as a whole was a step or two behind the one implemented at Visma. Said all that the team still won one GT and finished second in another in the 2024 season. Without a bag of money involved and with lacking nutrition system implemented among some other things missing or better lacking.

So poaching Asker Jeukendrup, head of nutrition at Visma, this in my opinion can't be perceived as some random act of spending money. We all know Visma is top notch, on where it comes to nutrition and their head of nutrition must know a thing or two about it.

Along with the addition of a bag of money they poached aerodynamic specialist, will have access to modern RB equipment and facilities and know how ... All this was more or less not available in the 2024 season. So in my opinion there is a proper plan unfolding and the results will start to show in the 2025 season. Nutrition is one of the most important aspects of pro road cycling and getting this right can by itself determine the outcome of some race. This area should hence now be covered, proper nutrition system to be implemented.

Completely agree

 

[awavey]

Nutrition is one of the most important aspects of pro road cycling and getting this right can by itself determine the outcome of some race. This area should hence now be covered, proper nutrition system to be implemented.

Fortunately I don't have any nutritionist friends who'd disown me for saying this.

And I'm not disagreeing that nutrition isn't important and a key to unlocking good performance in physical activity like cycling.

But surely all nutritionists are largely the same level, technically, there arent any super good nutritionists, they all know what's good nutrition or what's bad nutrition, it's not like there's a nutrition whisperer who unlocks magical secrets in nutrition, alot of it is about getting pro riders especially to just follow the advice they give.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@awavey

In theory but in practice everybody more or less acknowledges that Visma is a step or two ahead of most other teams in regards to nutrition. On top of that proper nutrition is a key factor in regular life too.

 

[theyoungest]

Fortunately I don't have any nutritionist friends who'd disown me for saying this.

And I'm not disagreeing that nutrition isn't important and a key to unlocking good performance in physical activity like cycling.

But surely all nutritionists are largely the same level, technically, there arent any super good nutritionists, they all know what's good nutrition or what's bad nutrition, it's not like there's a nutrition whisperer who unlocks magical secrets in nutrition, alot of it is about getting pro riders especially to just follow the advice they give.

Asker Jeukendrup happens to be some kind of a God among nutritionists, he's not just some random guy. So they add a lot of knowledge and expertise to the team. But it's also about how you use that knowledge. This team, according to all reports, is still run quite conservatively, or it was until recently. It takes a change of team culture to really get things going.

 

[MLKarlos]

another exaggerated article by them:

Hoe Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe steeds meer op Manchester City begint te lijken

Wout van Aert, Tom Pidcock, Jasper Philipsen, uiteraard Remco Evenepoel en nu ook Maxim Van Gils. Al deze namen zijn het laatste jaar wel een keer serieus in verband gebracht met Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe. Niets nieuws, want de ploeg roerde zich in het verleden ook al op de markt voor de grootsten...

www.wielerflits.nl

BUT it says again that Sven Vanthourenhout is close to sign with Red Bull. Take from it whatever you want, because each article from Wielerflits this year with connection to Red Bull was more or less wrong.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Fortunately I don't have any nutritionist friends who'd disown me for saying this.

And I'm not disagreeing that nutrition isn't important and a key to unlocking good performance in physical activity like cycling.

But surely all nutritionists are largely the same level, technically, there arent any super good nutritionists, they all know what's good nutrition or what's bad nutrition, it's not like there's a nutrition whisperer who unlocks magical secrets in nutrition, alot of it is about getting pro riders especially to just follow the advice they give.

Yeah the vast majority of the information is open source and peer reviewed, the level of knowledge in this field needed isn't particularly high like it would be a nuclear scientist so if a rider had some time and a bit of intellect they could teach most of it themselves, as some have. The differences between top nutritionists seem minor and any changes or new knowledge would rapidly become widely known and implemented across the board.

Remco's nutrition video before world's was him basically stuffing in as much as he could and tracking the calorie expenditure, Haribo, tasty lasagne and a tub of Ben+Jerrys.

Logistics, the time and money to properly micromanage this stuff and the individual athletes discipline are the main difference makers, which the very top teams do have. The proper brains like in most fields, will be random Chinese eggheads with a microscope that nobody has ever heard of, sat in the basement of Kellogg's on slave wages looking for some way to make the cornflakes more addictive. Anything they find will trickle down eventually to cycling teams, there's no magic bullet.

 

[Wyndbrook]

another exaggerated article by them:

Hoe Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe steeds meer op Manchester City begint te lijken

Wout van Aert, Tom Pidcock, Jasper Philipsen, uiteraard Remco Evenepoel en nu ook Maxim Van Gils. Al deze namen zijn het laatste jaar wel een keer serieus in verband gebracht met Red Bull-BORA-hansgrohe. Niets nieuws, want de ploeg roerde zich in het verleden ook al op de markt voor de grootsten...

www.wielerflits.nl

BUT it says again that Sven Vanthourenhout is close to sign with Red Bull. Take from it whatever you want, because each article from Wielerflits this year with connection to Red Bull was more or less wrong.

Maybe Man City not currently the best team to use an a example. Woeful at the moment, but more related to this article Red Bull had better watch out for the departed riders, City to seem to have a habit of ditching players who then perform at a higher level elsewhere.

 

[Statze2]

Some insights on Emil Herzog. He is very satisfied with his 2024 season (https://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_140088.htm) but has different targets for 2025 then in 2024. He stated that he is having some difficulties with the short efforts (1-3 minutes) and that he feels more comfortable on the longer efforts. So he wants to do some small stage races with a hilly parcour which maybe include a time trial. But of course he is not a climber that can finish in the front on a 20 km climb. He mentioned Sibiu tour as a possibility. And he said that its a possibility that he is doing some races with the U23 team.

This sounds a little bit like the profile of Max Schachmann. Maybe Volta ao Algarve is this kind of race or Settimana Internationale Coppi e Bartali, Tour Alsace on World Tour level Santos Tour down under. One day race could be Strade Bianchi (if you want to think big). Some more ideas on possible races?

 

[MLKarlos]

Some insights on Emil Herzog. He is very satisfied with his 2024 season (https://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_140088.htm) but has different targets for 2025 then in 2024. He stated that he is having some difficulties with the short efforts (1-3 minutes) and that he feels more comfortable on the longer efforts. So he wants to do some small stage races with a hilly parcour which maybe include a time trial. But of course he is not a climber that can finish in the front on a 20 km climb. He mentioned Sibiu tour as a possibility. And he said that its a possibility that he is doing some races with the U23 team.

This sounds a little bit like the profile of Max Schachmann. Maybe Volta ao Algarve is this kind of race or Settimana Internationale Coppi e Bartali, Tour Alsace on World Tour level Santos Tour down under. One day race could be Strade Bianchi (if you want to think big). Some more ideas on possible races?

very interesthing, thanks.
I think he started quite well but it seemed like from mid season on he did not have his best form anymore.
Anyway, the boy is 20 years old. He has a lot of time

 

[Statze2]

very interesthing, thanks.
I think he started quite well but it seemed like from mid season on he did not have his best form anymore.
Anyway, the boy is 20 years old. He has a lot of time

Yes I think the Most important think in 2024 was to gain experience and stay healthy. As far as I know he did Not do any altitude camp. The only specific preparation was for the U23 Worlds - he there was Held back by a puncture in a Bad Situation but managed to get back to 16th place.

Hope he stays healthy again and can Target some races as a Highlight for himself and get some good results (Top 10). In the long Term I can See him delivering good results in the Long and Heavy one day races

 

[pablohidalgo7]

He also was good in some hilly one day race in Italy I think, blowing up in the final after being active in the front group, also was useful for Adrià win in Wallonie making the race harder on the climbs. This .1 and .Pro hilly one day races and Stage races, should be a atarget for him, with on more year of experiencie he can actually achieve results.