Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Berflamand]

Segaert rode the EC ITT with the U23 because if he rode it with the elite, he wouldn't be allowed to ride the Worlds ITT with the U23.

At least that's what Sporza reports, I haven't checked the rules myself.

Gemiste kans op titel bij de profs? Belofte Alec Segaert dook liefst 9 seconden onder toptijd van Affini | sporza

Het zal voor altijd een vraagteken blijven. Had Alec Segaert zich vandaag tot Europees kampioen bij de profs kunnen kronen? Met zijn knaltijd van 35'06" dook de belofte liefst 9 seconden onder de chrono van Edoardo Affini, die de tijdrit bij de profs naar zijn hand zette. Al had Segaert wel een...

sporza.be

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It's clear Vanthourenhout mostly looks at how people performed this season, and honestly Hermans did better than Van Wilder. Just because Van Wilder at his best, is better than Hermans at his best doesn't mean he should be picked, because he didn't show that. So I agree that Van Wilder is the better rider, but I understand they went for Hermans.

I also disagree about your remarks about Vanthourenhout. Clear case of hindsight is 20-20. WCC in Leuven was in 2021, the season Evenepoel blew himself up due to bad SOQ management in the Giro. He was very *** at the Olympics, which was the first race with the National team that year, and they didn't appreciate that. Based on that they decided to go all-in on WVA, who destroyed the TDF. They could've given Remco a free role after his result in the EC, but pretty sure they were still pissed about the Olympics, and that Remco didn't show much improvement besides at the EC. On top of it, the course was seen as a great course for WVA, it was designed for him, and a WVA in TDF form would've won that. It's just that he gets squeezed out completely by Visma for the TDF. Pretty sure Evenepoel would've won that WC if he had a free role or was the leader, but he listened to the leaders, who had reasons not to give him that role, which I understand.

I don't see an issue with Stuyven being part of the team. If there is anyone that has always shown to be a great domestique for the team, it's him. Also he showed in TDF that he's able to get over a hill, he improved a lot in that regard.

On Segaert, it was his own decision. Segaert wanted to ride U23, I don't know why, I find it ridiculous. But I also didn't expect him to get the best time of the day (no rain though), and neither did anyone here on the forum. Because I didn't hear anyone complain about it beforehand. Vanthourenhout probably discussed this with him, and if Segaert wanted a definite win in U23, instead of top 10 at elites he probably said fine.

I find it very easy of you to say what went wrong after it happened. Also just saying everything is thanks to Evenepoel is ignoring all the effort everyone and the staff puts into it. There's a reason why Evenepoel thanks everyone, and also Vanthourenhout. You act as if it's an easy job and it's just selecting people and see how it unfolds.

In 2021, Evenepoel had just won Brussels Cycling Classic, Druivenkoers and Danmark Rundt, all in quite spectacular fashion, between Olympics and Worlds and on courses much more aching to the WCC than the OG. Only an idiot would not give him a free role at the very least. The only reason Evenepoel did not win the ECC can only be discussed in another forum.

Hermans rides in a team where almost every race he rides, he can ride for himself, especially the hilly races, which is what we are talking about here. He doesn't ride for a GC leader, he had 99% freedom to do what he wanted in the Giro and the Vuelta. No Philipsen or Van der Poel in either of those races. Yet you fail to take that into account when comparing. Van Wilder in the TDF had to take over most of Vervaeke's job after the latter DNF. It is very difficult to rate someone's work when you can't see what he has done. He had 3 chances to ride his own race this season, he finished 4th in UAE and 4th in Romandie. And while i would have also liked him to have taken another step compared to last year, i would still rate those performances over anything Hermans did especially with this particular job in mind. Hermans won an uphill bunchsprint in Itzulia. Great, how is that going to help Evenepoel?

You find it easy of me to say what went wrong after it happened, but you will not easily find another poster who so often speaks his mind about things before they happen. And unsurprisingly, i spoke out about the 2021 WCC situation before it happened, and guess what. I was right. There may have been another instance or two that i called beforehand. Maybe.

I have no issue per se with Stuyven, but his only role here will be that of domestique in this case. Unlike at the WCC of the past years and even the OG last month, where he could also be played out tactically with his ability to get a result on courses like those. That's not the case on thise course. So i do not see the added value in taking him over riders for this kind of parcours who have a better chance to get a result in case that would be needed, who are more believable threats in case you want to play them in a tactical game, and who are also used to committing fully as domestiques. Riders who are also much younger and could do with the extra experience and boost of moral. You might need to use them later down the line. Oh right, Vanthourenhout is leaving so he doesn't really care about that.

Regarding Segaert, if he wanted it, then he is an idiot. This ECC was a great opportunity considering neither Ganna, Evenepoel, Van Aert, Tarling etc... were present. And i think Vanthourenhout should have convinced him to ride it with the pros. A pro ECC title or even medal should always trump a U23 WCC title. He should ask Bjerg. It's also quite meaningless at his age. Like Foss beating kids over 3 years younger in Avenir.

Segaert rode the EC ITT with the U23 because if he rode it with the elite, he wouldn't be allowed to ride the Worlds ITT with the U23.

At least that's what Sporza reports, I haven't checked the rules myself.

Gemiste kans op titel bij de profs? Belofte Alec Segaert dook liefst 9 seconden onder toptijd van Affini | sporza

Het zal voor altijd een vraagteken blijven. Had Alec Segaert zich vandaag tot Europees kampioen bij de profs kunnen kronen? Met zijn knaltijd van 35'06" dook de belofte liefst 9 seconden onder de chrono van Edoardo Affini, die de tijdrit bij de profs naar zijn hand zette. Al had Segaert wel een...

sporza.be

Could be. But then i don't understand why riders are being allowed to ride NC's in both categories for instance. Waerenskjold for instance rode both the 2022 U23 as well as Elite national championships. And i think there have been other cases recently with such things happening which would lead you to believe it should be possible to mix categories. But i can't put my finger on it.

 

[Berniece]

In 2021, Evenepoel had just won Brussels Cycling Classic, Druivenkoers and Danmark Rundt, all in quite spectacular fashion, between Olympics and Worlds and on courses much more aching to the WCC than the OG. Only an idiot would not give him a free role at the very least. The only reason Evenepoel did not win the ECC can only be discussed in another forum.

Hermans rides in a team where almost every race he rides, he can ride for himself, especially the hilly races, which is what we are talking about here. He doesn't ride for a GC leader, he had 99% freedom to do what he wanted in the Giro and the Vuelta. No Philipsen or Van der Poel in either of those races. Yet you fail to take that into account when comparing. Van Wilder in the TDF had to take over most of Vervaeke's job after the latter DNF. It is very difficult to rate someone's work when you can't see what he has done. He had 3 chances to ride his own race this season, he finished 4th in UAE and 4th in Romandie. And while i would have also liked him to have taken another step compared to last year, i would still rate those performances over anything Hermans did especially with this particular job in mind. Hermans won an uphill bunchsprint in Itzulia. Great, how is that going to help Evenepoel?

You find it easy of me to say what went wrong after it happened, but you will not easily find another poster who so often speaks his mind about things before they happen. And unsurprisingly, i spoke out about the 2021 WCC situation before it happened, and guess what. I was right. There may have been another instance or two that i called beforehand. Maybe.

I have no issue per se with Stuyven, but his only role here will be that of domestique in this case. Unlike at the WCC of the past years and even the OG last month, where he could also be played out tactically with his ability to get a result on courses like those. That's not the case on thise course. So i do not see the added value in taking him over riders for this kind of parcours who have a better chance to get a result in case that would be needed, who are more believable threats in case you want to play them in a tactical game, and who are also used to committing fully as domestiques. Riders who are also much younger and could do with the extra experience and boost of moral. You might need to use them later down the line. Oh right, Vanthourenhout is leaving so he doesn't really care about that.

Regarding Segaert, if he wanted it, then he is an idiot. This ECC was a great opportunity considering neither Ganna, Evenepoel, Van Aert, Tarling etc... were present. And i think Vanthourenhout should have convinced him to ride it with the pros. A pro ECC title or even medal should always trump a U23 WCC title. He should ask Bjerg. It's also quite meaningless at his age. Like Foss beating kids over 3 years younger in Avenir.

We all now that his performance in Brussels Cycling Classic, Druivenkoers and Danmark Rundt was ignored, because those were smaller races. I think they held grudges due to the Olympics were Remco got the free role, rode for himself, and completely blew up. I get that with Wout then being so good in the TDF, they wanted to go all in on him, since this should've been his terrain. I mostly blame WVA for not saying he wasn't at his best, it was selfish, and he chose not to properly disclose that information with Vanthourenhout.

On Hermans v. Van Wilder, we'll just agree to disagree. I get why they chose Hermans, he was also a lot of help in Wollongong for Evenepoel. He's in decent shape, and he already showed he's a team player for Belgium. If Van Wilder rode a result he might have gotten that spot, but unfortunately they didn't deem his results good enough.

In case of Stuyven I think you are underestimating how good he's uphill lately. Combined with his rouleur abilities I think he still has a big role to play.

 

[Berniece]

Noticed he didn’t log any trainings since Tour of Britain, that’s always a good sign

 

[shadowrider]

I'm not sure. I think Evenepoel will be good at the Worlds, but not in topshape. He was far from a good shape in Britain. To have a small chance against Pogacar, and even the duo of the same country, Pogacar/Roglic, Evenepoel would have to lose an extra kilo (again), be in topshape and complete another (short) altitude trainingcamp. It would be his third altitude training this season. Because of both physical and mental reasons, Evenepoel decided not to train at altitude and lose extra weight this time. Only training in good weather conditions on the hilly roads of Spain.
By saving his strength until the end, he may still be able to reach the podium with a late (counter)attack. That is of course the pragmatic approach. But I think it is possible that he will still compete too early with Pogacar, Roglic and other riders who are in top form at the Vuelta...... to blow up and end at the 46 th place. But no problem, there will be other occasions to win a second world title later. Maybe already in Kigali next year.

 

[Berniece]

I'm not sure. I think Evenepoel will be good at the Worlds, but not in topshape. He was far from a good shape in Britain. To have a small chance against Pogacar, and even the duo of the same country, Pogacar/Roglic, Evenepoel would have to lose an extra kilo (again), be in topshape and complete another (short) altitude trainingcamp. It would be his third altitude training this season. Because of both physical and mental reasons, Evenepoel decided not to train at altitude and lose extra weight this time. Only training in good weather conditions on the hilly roads of Spain.
By saving his strength until the end, he may still be able to reach the podium with a late (counter)attack. That is of course the pragmatic approach. But I think it is possible that he will still compete too early with Pogacar, Roglic and other riders who are in top form at the Vuelta...... to blow up and end at the 46 th place. But no problem, there will be other occasions to win a second world title later. Maybe already in Kigali next year.

We'll probably notice his form in the WC ITT. If he doesn't win that, he won't win WC RR. And if he wins WC ITT, we should still check his time to properly understand how well he's riding.

 

[yaco]

I'm not sure. I think Evenepoel will be good at the Worlds, but not in topshape. He was far from a good shape in Britain. To have a small chance against Pogacar, and even the duo of the same country, Pogacar/Roglic, Evenepoel would have to lose an extra kilo (again), be in topshape and complete another (short) altitude trainingcamp. It would be his third altitude training this season. Because of both physical and mental reasons, Evenepoel decided not to train at altitude and lose extra weight this time. Only training in good weather conditions on the hilly roads of Spain.
By saving his strength until the end, he may still be able to reach the podium with a late (counter)attack. That is of course the pragmatic approach. But I think it is possible that he will still compete too early with Pogacar, Roglic and other riders who are in top form at the Vuelta...... to blow up and end at the 46 th place. But no problem, there will be other occasions to win a second world title later. Maybe already in Kigali next year.

Why would you do a 2-week altitude camp for one or two one-day races? It makes no sense, and is a waste of resources. What other riders are doing altitude camps?

 

[Berniece]

Why would you do a 2-week altitude camp for one or two one-day races? It makes no sense, and is a waste of resources. What other riders are doing altitude camps?

It's not just for 1-2 races right? Would be to get a high level from WC ITT all the way until Lombardia. Which is 5-6 races. Not sure if it makes sense then to do such a thing.

I don't know about other riders that did an altitude camp. Definitely not MVDP or Pogacar which are the main rivals.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Cyclocrossers go on altitude mid-season (winter season i mean) all the time, just to get an edge to muck around in the mud. And i'm not talking about only MvdP and WvA, i'm also talking about guys that don't win 3 crosses in a year. I'm sure in order to prepare a WCC TT+RR with Lombardia coming up next, it could be worthwhile to consider. But i can understand he doesn't feel like it after this season.

I didn't think he was that bad in Britain as people make it out to be. What he did on day 2 i believe, was pretty strong. Closed multiple gaps, reeled in the break on his own, came back multiple times to work or attack, and still finished one of the stronger riders. Had they worked for him instead of the other way around, he could have easily won that. Of course, the level was not great but he also had time to improve before the WCC. He won't be at the level of the OG though probably.

 

[Karl Merckx]

Level was not great but 2nd and 3rd of GP de Montreal were in ToB.

 

[Red Rick]

I have checked, and Zurich isn't located in Lombardia, so there is no shot Evenepoel misses his WC peak completely

 

[Berniece]

Level was not great but 2nd and 3rd of GP de Montreal were in ToB.

And he seemed to be the best in ToB, basically interval training

 

[Sciatic]

Why would you do a 2-week altitude camp for one or two one-day races? It makes no sense, and is a waste of resources. What other riders are doing altitude camps?

Why? Simple answer is so they can ride those races with a legally higher HCT than they would have training at home (unless home is Colombia). Other reasons go in the other forum.

 

[Didinho]

260km in 7h. Good training today. Hope he can peak another period with WC and hopefully Lombardia.

 

[Oldermanish]

We'll probably notice his form in the WC ITT. If he doesn't win that, he won't win WC RR. And if he wins WC ITT, we should still check his time to properly understand how well he's riding.

While a great TT could indicate his dominance in that race it isn't definitive of what he could do in this RR. He's accomplished the impossible Olympic double and a great Tour after injuries galore. Anything else is cream. He may not have the overall form after that peak to compete in both. although he will certainly give his best.

 

[Berniece]

While a great TT could indicate his dominance in that race it isn't definitive of what he could do in this RR. He's accomplished the impossible Olympic double and a great Tour after injuries galore. Anything else is cream. He may not have the overall form after that peak to compete in both. although he will certainly give his best.

Yeah definitely, the WC is just a nice extra. He already won it, has many more chances to win it later on.

 

[Berniece]

Nice training ride, he's getting ready

 

[houtdffan]

the TT seems to be a shoe in

Which sets up the Triple Crown vs the Undisputed world road cycling championship

would love to see a match race develop between Pog and Remco for all the marbles

 

[KoopaCycling]

There goes the friendship

 

[Berniece]

the TT seems to be a shoe in

Which sets up the Triple Crown vs the Undisputed world road cycling championship

would love to see a match race develop between Pog and Remco for all the marbles

The TT still needs to be ridden, you've got Tarling and Ganna that will ride it. Maybe Roglic, but I don't expect much over such a distance from him against these riders.

 

[shadowrider]

We'll probably notice his form in the WC ITT. If he doesn't win that, he won't win WC RR. And if he wins WC ITT, we should still check his time to properly understand how well he's riding.

Exactly. Winning the WC TT (in an overwhelming way) would make Evenepoel the second favorite (but still after Pogacar) for the WC road. But not winning the TT or just winning with a few seconds would signify Evenepoel isn't at his upper best.

 

[Berniece]

Exactly. Winning the WC TT (in an overwhelming way) would make Evenepoel the second favorite (but still after Pogacar) for the WC road. But not winning the TT or just winning with a few seconds would signify Evenepoel isn't at his upper best.

Well we don't know how good Tarling and Ganna are yet. If he wins by a couple of seconds but they went on average 58 km/h (ridiculous number to make a case), you know he's still in great form

 

[shadowrider]

Why would you do a 2-week altitude camp for one or two one-day races? It makes no sense, and is a waste of resources. What other riders are doing altitude camps?

Several (top)riders did/do altitude camps to prepare important one-dayraces. Or to prepare a one hour effort, cfr attacking the world hour record. It makes a huge difference. Sometimes the altitude camp is ment for a good result in both a one-day race and a GT (Liège and the Giro, Clasica San Sebastian and the Vuelta and evt the worlds).

But the problem is that the effect of a third and fourth altitude camp (long or short) within a few months is a lot smaller. Not to forget he mental burden that can partly cancel out any physical benefits. So, that is the reason that an altitude camp is rarely done to prepare the worlds and Lombardia at the end of the season. What is being done is going to altitude camp to prepare for the Vuelta and to extend the shape to the worlds. In 2022 Evenepoel already did his second trainingcamp just before the Clasica San Sebastian, going to the Vuelta a few weeks later (the Vuelta itself has the effect of a moderate altitude trainingcamp) and keeping his form till the worlds.

 

[shadowrider]

Well we don't know how good Tarling and Ganna are yet. If he wins by a couple of seconds but they went on average 58 km/h (ridiculous number to make a case), you know he's still in great form

It's a pity Evenepoel will probably not be at his best. The road worlds this year suits both Pogacar and Evenepoel. It will/would be the first time both riders would challenge mano a mano. As it would have been in Liège earlier this year if Evenepoel hadn't crashed in the Basque Tour. Of course, they already competed against each other. In the Clasica San Sebastian and in the Worlds 22. Both won by Evenepoel. But Pogacar wasn't at his best then or was trapped by the early attack of Evenepoel (worlds 22).

 

[Berniece]

It's a pity Evenepoel will probably not be at his best. The road worlds this year suits both Pogacar and Evenepoel. It will/would be the first time both riders would challenge mano a mano. As it would have been in Liège earlier this year if Evenepoel hadn't crashed in the Basque Tour. Of course, they already competed against each other. In the Clasica San Sebastian and in the Worlds 22. Both won by Evenepoel. But Pogacar wasn't at his best then or was trapped by the early attack of Evenepoel (worlds 22).

I don’t know, Evenepoel seems confident though, and thinks he’s ready. Who are we to doubt that.