Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[SHAD0W93]

It took Lucien Van Impe 7 tries to win TDF.

Van Impe also had better, more consistent GC results before said win. Evenepoel is basically Klöden with a GT win. Can be up there and has the talent but something almost always happens.

 

[houtdffan]

I agree with this. I can also add the fact a lighter Remco already showed a similar level (or even better) than a heavier Remco in hilly classics so there is really no point for him to not lose weight. A heavier Remco should probably be better on the cobbles but I don't think he will ever be competitive there. He is really mediocre.
I think the main reason is how he can't maintain his weight low. According to Remco, he gains weight easily and he probably needs to starve himself to get his ideal GT shape but he struggles mentally to get there. Probably they (both Bora and Quickstep) fear(ed) he could get some mental disorder.

not competitive on the cobbles?

3rd is not competitive?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

It took Lucien Van Impe 7 tries to win TDF.

7 for Evans and 8 for Sastre too and Zoetemelk 10 even.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Van Impe also had better, more consistent GC results before said win. Evenepoel is basically Klöden with a GT win. Can be up there and has the talent but something almost always happens.

Van Impe finished his first 6 GTs, so that's more consistent. Remco got a Tour Podium and a Vuelta win out of his 3 finished GTs, which is better than what van Impe managed in his first 6. Also better than Sastre, Evans or Zoetemelk.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Van Impe finished his first 6 GTs, so that's more consistent. Remco got a Tour Podium and a Vuelta win out of his 3 finished GTs, which is better than what van Impe managed in his first 6. Also better than Sastre, Evans or Zoetemelk.

The only reason it’s “better” is the Vuelta win but just because you won the Vuelta doesn’t mean you can win the Tour or a better GC rider than the Tour podium. Especially when Vuelta stages aren’t raced as hard. All the riders you listed showed a consistency Evenepoel hasn’t shown even in stage races.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

The only reason it’s “better” is the Vuelta win but just because you won the Vuelta doesn’t mean you can win the Tour or a better GC rider than the Tour podium. Especially when Vuelta stages aren’t raced as hard. All the riders you listed showed a consistency Evenepoel hasn’t shown even in stage races.

Still winning a GT is a better indicator of winning another GT than not winning a GT. Remco also has 13 wins in stage races. It's not just about consistency. More wins in stage races than Evans, Zoetemelk (if you ignore the 2 stage A Traverse Lausanne) and van Impe, and more than Sastre even has wins.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Still winning a GT is a better indicator of winning another GT than not winning a GT. Remco also has 13 wins in stage races. It's not just about consistency. More wins in stage races than Evans, Zoetemelk (if you ignore the 2 stage A Traverse Lausanne) and van Impe, and more than Sastre even has wins.

But it doesn’t mean it translates to other GT success. If I counted right, 4 (5 if you count Froome) riders won the Vuelta first and then the Tour. 2(3) of those clearly better than Evenepoel with 1 arguably better or even. 1-3 went on to win the Giro. Yeah he does have those wins, mostly due to his superior time trial. That success doesn’t mean it translates to GTs and we’ve seen it doesn’t even translate to the 7 major week races.

Not only is Evenepoel worse than Pogacar and Vingegaard, it’s also hard to say he’s better than the others coming up. In order to win he’d have to have something happen to the top 2, get his form and weight right, not crash or get sick, and be better than Seixas and Lipo.


All this to say, I would be surprised if 3rd isn’t his best Tour finish.

 

[yaco]

Not yet. If he's not competitive for the win this year, he should go full GC mode next season, 60kgs, traditional Tour prep, etc. and if he's still uncompetitive for the win then f it, focus on other races. That's what I'd do if I was him

That won't happen. It is obvious that this year has all been about the TDF. So if unsuccessful he will concentrate on other races in 2027.

 

[KoopaCycling]

But it doesn’t mean it translates to other GT success. If I counted right, 4 (5 if you count Froome) riders won the Vuelta first and then the Tour. 2(3) of those clearly better than Evenepoel with 1 arguably better or even. 1-3 went on to win the Giro. Yeah he does have those wins, mostly due to his superior time trial. That success doesn’t mean it translates to GTs and we’ve seen it doesn’t even translate to the 7 major week races.

Not only is Evenepoel worse than Pogacar and Vingegaard, it’s also hard to say he’s better than the others coming up. In order to win he’d have to have something happen to the top 2, get his form and weight right, not crash or get sick, and be better than Seixas and Lipo.


All this to say, I would be surprised if 3rd isn’t his best Tour finish.

Have to disagree with that. Quite a few GC wins he was also the the best or one of the best uphill. Burgos, Algarve, Norway, Belgium,... come to mind. It aint the major one week races but some of them arent shabby like the relative weak Belgium GC.

 

[Netserk]

Remco also has 13 wins in stage races

the greatest of which was uae where he was dropped by adam yates

algarve , belgium tour and pologne are completely unimportant compared to how well you climb gt climbs

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Van Impe finished his first 6 GTs, so that's more consistent. Remco got a Tour Podium and a Vuelta win out of his 3 finished GTs, which is better than what van Impe managed in his first 6. Also better than Sastre, Evans or Zoetemelk.

Evenepoel is a rider that could win the Tour under good circumstances but we shouldn't simply compare him to past Tour winners (i.e. he likely will never have as weak competition as Sastre). We should look at the current situation: two guys are much better than him (in fact they have the strongest 1-2 domination ever, five consecutive years) and there's also a 19 yo phenom who could take over soon. It's pretty much the hardest situation for other victory candidates in years (not only for Evenepoel but also for guys like Lipowitz or Almeida).

 

[Berniece]

the greatest of which was uae where he was dropped by adam yates

algarve , belgium tour and pologne are completely unimportant compared to how well you climb gt climbs

In a year where Adam Yates finished 3rd in TDF

 

[Netserk]

In a year where Adam Yates finished 3rd in TDF

like dauphine last year where he was dropped by lipo

very far from looking like a tour winner

 

[Berniece]

like dauphine last year where he was dropped by lipo

very far from looking like a tour winner

Very similar situations of course. UAE Tour 2023 he came back from just winning Vuelta and WC. Last year Dauphine he came back from a crash and wasn’t able to go all out during training

 

[KoopaCycling]

Very similar situations of course. UAE Tour 2023 he came back from just winning Vuelta and WC. Last year Dauphine he came back from a crash and wasn’t able to go all out during training

At the end of the day it's true there are 2-6 stronger GT riders. Depending on your thought's on Remco that number is higher or lower.
I got Pogacar, Vingegaard and Seixas ahead of him. Lipo about equal and Del Toro and Almeida lower than him. Honestly aside from the top dogs like Indurain, Ullrich, Armstrong, Contador, Froome, that is where a lot of Gt contenders end up. What matters is Remco getting back to competitive ways.

I would not rate Simon higher than Adam. yet Simon has 2 GT's, whilst Adam has none. For the competitive GT guys that aren't the top dogs, it's about picking your battles.

 

[Netserk]

Very similar situations of course. UAE Tour 2023 he came back from just winning Vuelta and WC. Last year Dauphine he came back from a crash and wasn’t able to go all out during training

yeah

getting dropped by the rider who will finish third in the tour is not very promising

 

[Berniece]

yeah

getting dropped by the rider who will finish third in the tour is not very promising

I just think those were just different situations. People saying Evenepoel is a bad stage racer because he never won one of the big 7 is silly.

Just like saying he will never win TDF after winning Vuelta and finishing on the podium. This is cycling, the best doesn’t always win. Otherwise Evenepoel would’ve already won the Giro

 

[AmRacer]

I just think those were just different situations. People saying Evenepoel is a bad stage racer because he never won one of the big 7 is silly.

Just like saying he will never win TDF after winning Vuelta and finishing on the podium. This is cycling, the best doesn’t always win. Otherwise Evenepoel would’ve already won the Giro

If it's true, the best doesn't always win, Remco would have won the Giro and a Tour by now.

 

[Netserk]

I just think those were just different situations. People saying Evenepoel is a bad stage racer because he never won one of the big 7 is silly.

Just like saying he will never win TDF after winning Vuelta and finishing on the podium. This is cycling, the best doesn’t always win. Otherwise Evenepoel would’ve already won the Giro

what is his best climbing performance in the giro ?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

But it doesn’t mean it translates to other GT success.
[...]
All this to say, I would be surprised if 3rd isn’t his best Tour finish.

That's not was I was saying though, merely that his results are better than the mentioned riders in the historical example case. But @Krzysztof_O is right, that the historical comparisons don't do much to further the argument. I was more arguing details than how realistic it would be for him to win one.

It will of course be very difficult for him to achieve a Tour victory, yet lots can happen in cycling and sharp declines and crashes do happen sometimes. Though you might end up being right, that 3rd will be his best.

It's his quest though to win the Tour, we can agree with it or not, and Red Bull seems to have belief, otherwise they'd not have spend so much on him I think.

I personally just hope they get his Tour prep right and he has a few years without any *** happening. What he can do then, we will see. But I don't think it's a given that he cannot win the Tour, if things fell into place for him.

 

[AmRacer]

That's not was I was saying though, merely that his results are better than the mentioned riders in the historical example case. But @Krzysztof_O is right, that the historical comparisons don't do much to further the argument. I was more arguing details than how realistic it would be for him to win one.

It will of course be very difficult for him to achieve a Tour victory, yet lots can happen in cycling and sharp declines and crashes do happen sometimes. Though you might end up being right, that 3rd will be his best.

It's his quest though to win the Tour, we can agree with it or not, and Red Bull seems to have belief, otherwise they'd not have spend so much on him I think.

I personally just hope they get his Tour prep right and he has a few years without any *** happening. What he can do then, we will see. But I don't think it's a given that he cannot win the Tour, if things fell into place for him.

Lipo?

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Lipo?

Good rider, I like him, and I think he'll give people a run for their money to beat him at the Tour. I am unsure though, what you wan't to tell me with that question with regard to what I wrote.

Sure Lipowitz existence doesn't make it easier either, but I don't think Remco was hired to be his first officer.

 

[Berniece]

what is his best climbing performance in the giro ?

What does that have to do with it? He got Covid before he could’ve proven that. But if you think his approach would be radically different in Giro 2023 coming from just winning Vuelta 2022, then you’ll have to show us why it would be different

 

[Netserk]

What does that have to do with it?

that is the single best predictor of who " the best " is

 

[AmRacer]

Good rider, I like him, and I think he'll give people a run for their money to beat him at the Tour. I am unsure though, what you wan't to tell me with that question with regard to what I wrote.

Sure Lipowitz existence doesn't make it easier either, but I don't think Remco was hired to be his first officer.

Redbull rider podium at the Tour. Lipo will be ahead of Remco.