Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Berflamand]

The five rider teams thing that suited him most was the peloton only having around 90 riders to begin with and a quarter of those not being world tour standard making positioning much less stressful and energy depleting.

Not that it matters one bit but as everyone keeps saying 'five rider teams', I will remind you that it was actually four rider teams (and only for the best cycling nations, for example the Netherlands only had three riders).

 

[houtdffan]

Evenepoel's new coach reveals he used Vingegaard's numbers as benchmark for Tour

Remco Evenepoel's Tour de France podium push began with doubts, but new coach Tim Heemskerk helped reshape his preparation after the Belgian struggled in…

www.domestiquecycling.com

Remco's new coach expects Remco to be much better next year when he can actually complete the training from the start.

Hopefully, Remco also does his part and shows up next year in shape and doesn't repeat the Jan Ullrich offseason training method

 

[KoopaCycling]

So unable to climb whilst carrying to much weight, gradually improving as training progressed and he slimmed down. To only hit the original training shedule the week before the Tour. getting close to, but not quite reaching Jonas climbing numbers.

Still the assesment that remco was closer to Jonas as years gone by looks more accurate in light of that.
Especially since Remco improved during the Tour.

remco climbing endurance at the end of spring looked back and seemed to have been bad indeed.

 

[AmRacer]

So unable to climb whilst carrying to much weight, gradually improving as training progressed and he slimmed down. To only hit the original training shedule the week before the Tour. getting close to, but not quite reaching Jonas climbing numbers.

Still the assesment that remco was closer to Jonas as years gone by looks more accurate in light of that.
Especially since Remco improved during the Tour.

remco climbing endurance at the end of spring looked back and seemed to have been bad indeed.

Jonas had the Giro fatigue to carry

 

[KoopaCycling]

Jonas had the Giro fatigue to carry

Pretty sure Van Heemskerk is in a better position than us to compare the data.

@houtdffan Remco must indeed take note. As Ullrich got older it got harder to get in shape. He never looked as physically imposing as he did early in his career in 1997.

 

[AmRacer]

Pretty sure Van Heemskerk is in a better position than us to compare the data.

@houtdffan Remco must indeed take note. As Ullrich got older it got harder to get in shape. He never looked as physically imposing as he did early in his career in 1997.

Yeps, but Jonas still had the Giro. Can't deny that.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Sure, i'm just not convinced he was fatigued by it. His own comments suggest his body condition was based on the Giro long mountain climbs. And as such he lacked some explosiveness for some of the stages in the first part of the Tour. We did not get to see him in the final week.

When it comes to Jonas , we don't know. His Giro was not that hard. But we also did not get to see him on his terrain. But Remco also only improved from stage 15.

What we do know is that van heemskerk is a far more accurate judge of the data than us. And when he says Remco got close after being no good at the start of training camp. I believe him. he's dutch.

Close is not the same as reaching it. Close could easily translate to a 30-45 sec gap on the big mountains.
But close confirms that which I saw. That if all the i's are dotted, Remco has what it takes to be a GT contender (again).

Now what happens if they add more flat TT. If we get 85 kms of flat/rolling TT. And Remco is smart enough to realise he is still an elite TT'er at climbers weight. And Jonas is forced to tweak his condition just a bit to account for the amount of TT km. Maybe just getting close to Jonas climbers numbers is enough.

 

[hayneplane]

Sure, i'm just not convinced he was fatigued by it. His own comments suggest his body condition was based on the Giro long mountain climbs. And as such he lacked some explosiveness for some of the stages in the first part of the Tour. We did not get to see him in the final week.

When it comes to Jonas , we don't know. His Giro was not that hard. But we also did not get to see him on his terrain. But Remco also only improved from stage 15.

What we do know is that van heemskerk is a far more accurate judge of the data than us. And when he says Remco got close after being no good at the start of training camp. I believe him. he's dutch.

Close is not the same as reaching it. Close could easily translate to a 30-45 sec gap on the big mountains.
But close confirms that which I saw. That if all the i's are dotted, Remco has what it takes to be a GT contender (again).

Now what happens if they add more flat TT. If we get 85 kms of flat/rolling TT. And Remco is smart enough to realise he is still an elite TT'er at climbers weight. And Jonas is forced to tweak his condition just a bit to account for the amount of TT km. Maybe just getting close to Jonas climbers numbers is enough.

The bolded part is absolutely critical. He will clearly still be the best ITT rider of the GC contenders even at his optimal high mountains weight so he needs to stick to that plan regardless of how many ITT kms they put in the parcours as it will still be a big point of advantage to him.

Wiggins is a good example of someone who was a TT oriented rider and not a natural climber that managed to slim down and retain the power.

 

[vappa]

Evenepoel's new coach reveals he used Vingegaard's numbers as benchmark for Tour

Remco Evenepoel's Tour de France podium push began with doubts, but new coach Tim Heemskerk helped reshape his preparation after the Belgian struggled in…

www.domestiquecycling.com

Remco's new coach expects Remco to be much better next year when he can actually complete the training from the start.

Hopefully, Remco also does his part and shows up next year in shape and doesn't repeat the Jan Ullrich offseason training method

I wonder what "much better" means. Climbing on the level of Pogacar during the Tour or finishing 5 minutes down if both go all out for 3 weeks

 

[Berniece]

I wonder what "much better" means. Climbing on the level of Pogacar during the Tour or finishing 5 minutes down if both go all out for 3 weeks

Who says Pogacar doesn’t finish 5min down????

 

[houtdffan]

Who says Pogacar doesn’t finish 5min down????

Only way I could see that ever happening is if there was a Hinault route with 150km of ITT and Pog comes in 2kg heavier as a result

 

[vappa]

Who says Pogacar doesn’t finish 5min down????

I won't consider it even a possibility until it happens, Remco beating him by 5 minutes in a GT

 

[vappa]

Only way I could see that ever happening is if there was a Hinault route with 150km of ITT and Pog comes in 2kg heavier as a result

This year Remco took by far the most time on Pogacar in a GT TT, 1s/km roughly. If we extrapolate the gap, that's 2:30. Plus, Pogacar has a lot more room for improvement in the TT than Remco, if there really was 150km of ITT they would all extensively train the TT, the gap between them is more likely to decrease in the TT ability, not increase. And even then Remco would need to take another 2:30 in the mountains which I don't see happening at all, even if you get a 2kg heavier Pogacar. I'd say it's more likely that he overturns the ITT deficit than that Remco gets additional 2:30 in the mountains

 

[KoopaCycling]

This year Remco took by far the most time on Pogacar in a GT TT, 1s/km roughly. If we extrapolate the gap, that's 2:30. Plus, Pogacar has a lot more room for improvement in the TT than Remco, if there really was 150km of ITT they would all extensively train the TT, the gap between them is more likely to decrease in the TT ability, not increase. And even then Remco would need to take another 2:30 in the mountains which I don't see happening at all, even if you get a 2kg heavier Pogacar. I'd say it's more likely that he overturns the ITT deficit than that Remco gets additional 2:30 in the mountains

You think Pogacar and UAE have not done their TT homework? Pogacar was lowkey gunning for Kigali till things got messed up.

 

[peterfin]

This year Remco took by far the most time on Pogacar in a GT TT, 1s/km roughly. If we extrapolate the gap, that's 2:30. Plus, Pogacar has a lot more room for improvement in the TT than Remco, if there really was 150km of ITT they would all extensively train the TT, the gap between them is more likely to decrease in the TT ability, not increase. And even then Remco would need to take another 2:30 in the mountains which I don't see happening at all, even if you get a 2kg heavier Pogacar. I'd say it's more likely that he overturns the ITT deficit than that Remco gets additional 2:30 in the mountains

My view is that the TT gap increases while Pogacar is more invested in his TT than earlier in his career. Pogacar was aiming for the ITT in the tour. His comments after the race showed his disappointment. He was rightfully surprised to discover that he lost time on that climb. While Remco had some aero benefit, Pogacar would normally beat him on that section, especially in his tour shape.

 

[houtdffan]

This year Remco took by far the most time on Pogacar in a GT TT, 1s/km roughly. If we extrapolate the gap, that's 2:30. Plus, Pogacar has a lot more room for improvement in the TT than Remco, if there really was 150km of ITT they would all extensively train the TT, the gap between them is more likely to decrease in the TT ability, not increase. And even then Remco would need to take another 2:30 in the mountains which I don't see happening at all, even if you get a 2kg heavier Pogacar. I'd say it's more likely that he overturns the ITT deficit than that Remco gets additional 2:30 in the mountains

Pog at 2 kg heavier may be more of a Solaisson climber than his normal explosive self. Still enough to drop the peloton, but not an in form Remco.

There definitely would be tradeoffs that would be made

 

[Berniece]

Pog at 2 kg heavier may be more of a Solaisson climber than his normal explosive self. Still enough to drop the peloton, but not an in form Remco.

There definitely would be tradeoffs that would be made

We saw what that looked like in Romandie. Pogacar can't win weighing 2kg more

 

[AmRacer]

We saw what that looked like in Romandie. Pogacar can't win weighing 2kg more

Not against an in shape Jonas, no.

 

[vappa]

We saw what that looked like in Romandie. Pogacar can't win weighing 2kg more

Was it because he was 2kg heavier or was it because he was 2kg heavier and tired from the classics (LBL 2 days earlier) and had 0 trainings on a climb of any duration longer than 5 minutes (except Cipressa)? I think the latter 2 reasons played a lot bigger role than him being 2kg heavier. Pretty sure that peak Pogacar, just 2 kg heavier, would still be a big #1 favourite for the Tour

 

[SHAD0W93]

We saw what that looked like in Romandie. Pogacar can't win weighing 2kg more

You mean when Pogacar barely tried and still won comfortably?

 

[houtdffan]

Was it because he was 2kg heavier or was it because he was 2kg heavier and tired from the classics (LBL 2 days earlier) and had 0 trainings on a climb of any duration longer than 5 minutes (except Cipressa)? I think the latter 2 reasons played a lot bigger role than him being 2kg heavier. Pretty sure that peak Pogacar, just 2 kg heavier, would still be a big #1 favourite for the Tour

Pog would still be favorite.

It would actually be competitive, however.

Pog would not win as many stages if he "only" climbs at Solaisson level as Remco and Vingo would be able to remain with him some stages

 

[vappa]

Pog would still be favorite.

It would actually be competitive, however.

Pog would not win as many stages if he "only" climbs at Solaisson level as Remco and Vingo would be able to remain with him some stages

But Solaison was not at all realistic, it was as fast (or slow) as Del Toro could manage. So we don't know what a "fat" Pogacar could do

 

[houtdffan]

But Solaison was not at all realistic, it was as fast (or slow) as Del Toro could manage. So we don't know what a "fat" Pogacar could do

It was still a devastating tempo that blew all humans far off the wheel. Nearly 7 w/kg

Now, Pog still would be able to bring that far more often than Remco or Vingo could, which is why he remains the favorite