The twilight zone called Portugal.

Page 19 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Around 1:03:20 for the whole Torre ascent (24.42kms at 6.3%) for the Moreira monster.
Edit: 1:03:01 for 24.35kms at 6.2%, VAM of 1428. For a lightweight like Figueirdo who spend most of the time in the wind the w/kg must be rather extreme, Helder finished over 5:10 behind him and still did 5.4 W/Kg at a weight of 55kg (Figueiredo is listed at 56kg, I have seen 58kg sometimes, but he looks like a small guy and isn't exactly stocky), so it's probably at least 5.85 W/KG for just a bit over 63min, with around 35° C for most of the day before they got further up the climb.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Ilmaestro99
All you can say about Melcior is, if there wasn't any fire behind the smoke, don't you think Unzué would have signed him on the spot when Movistar were at the Volta last year? He more or less fits the template for what Eusebio wants out of a rider perfectly, and he's from a Latin American country that Movistar have never had a rider from, and rode in the Spanish amateur scene a few years back. The very fact Unzué didn't sign him for 2022 is enough of a red flag.
 
Reactions: Unterlenkerfahrend
How does that compare to previous years?
Though of course there can be a few factors in play on such a long climb.
I haven't looked at all the numbers, but pretty fast because they went hard from the start. If you only look on the steep final part it's a bit slower, but that's the result of them going ham earlier. Torre is also really exposed to the wind, so comparing climbing times on this one is a bit of a Ventoux situation.

Looking only at the Covilhã - Torre section (18.93kms at 6.4%) they went over 1:40 faster than Figueiredo back in 2020, but I rememer it being really windy on the 2nd half of the climb back then when Joao Rodrigues pulled all the time. This year Moreira was pretty much as fast as Joao Rodrigues and Veloso back in 2019 (24sec faster than Joao Benta that year, when he finished 20sec behind those 2), so the climbing times are still at W52 levels.
 
All you can say about Melcior is, if there wasn't any fire behind the smoke, don't you think Unzué would have signed him on the spot when Movistar were at the Volta last year? He more or less fits the template for what Eusebio wants out of a rider perfectly, and he's from a Latin American country that Movistar have never had a rider from, and rode in the Spanish amateur scene a few years back. The very fact Unzué didn't sign him for 2022 is enough of a red flag.
Imagine signing anyone on a CT team who climbs like this while having that kind of size.
Reminds me of what a guy who works for Scinto's team sayed on an Italian forum about the team not touching any Venezuelan riders when they had deal with their federation :"we really couldn't after looking at their blood values and blood count, they would have thrown us in jail if we brought guys with those kind of numbers over to race."
 
Reactions: PhiLiz
I haven't looked at all the numbers, but pretty fast because they went hard from the start. If you only look on the steep final part it's a bit slower, but that's the result of them going ham earlier. Torre is also really exposed to the wind, so comparing climbing times on this one is a bit of a Ventoux situation.

Looking only at the Covilhã - Torre section (18.93kms at 6.4%) they went over 1:40 faster than Figueiredo back in 2020, but I rememer it being really windy on the 2nd half of the climb back then when Joao Rodrigues pulled all the time. This year Moreira was pretty much as fast as Joao Rodrigues and Veloso back in 2019 (24sec faster than Joao Benta that year, when he finished 20sec behind those 2), so the climbing times are still at W52 levels.
Well you gotta say chapeau to Luís Fernandes for keeping up with the Vini Fantini boys until the finish.
 
Imagine signing anyone on a CT team who climbs like this while having that kind of size.
Reminds me of what a guy who works for Scinto's team sayed on an Italian forum about the team not touching any Venezuelan riders when they had deal with their federation :"we really couldn't after looking at their blood values and blood count, they would have thrown us in jail if we brought guys with those kind of numbers over to race."
But the thing is, if any team manager was going to, it would be Unzué. He loves his ATVs and has built a lot of his teams around having them. Even if he knows that Mauri can't go full Volta, he'd have a use for him. He signed Victor de la Parte (though admittedly after a year on a bio-passport compliant ProConti team rather than straight after his ridiculous Österreichrundfahrt show with Team Vorarlberg); the second time he signed Rubén Plaza was direct from a Liberty Seguros Continental team that had just seen three of its riders suspended for CERA use after obliterating the Volta a Portugal; he signed David Arroyo from LA Aluminios-Pecol; Carlos Oyarzún straight from an amateur team after he produced a shockingly good World Championships ITT; signed Fran Pérez straight out of Milaneza-Maia (mid-season, immediately after the Volta to start the Vuelta as his first race with the team!!!). And perhaps most notably for this particular example, he had actually signed Alejandro Marque when he turned miraculously from a time triallist to a climber in 2013 and would have been 32 by the time his contract came into effect, but then a contentious TUE error offered them the chance to break the contract and sign Igor Antón instead because of the Euskaltel yard sale. Results were varied of course - Arroyo and Plaza went on to produce for years for the team (plus of course they signed Costa from Portugal but he was an espoir at the time), Pérez would be OK but never reach the level he suggested with Milaneza, Oyarzún and de la Parte were short-lived experiments that didn't really pay off.

Like, literally if anybody was going to consider signing Mauri to a higher level, it would have been Unzué. And he wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.
 
Reactions: TourOfSardinia
But the thing is, if any team manager was going to, it would be Unzué. He loves his ATVs and has built a lot of his teams around having them. Even if he knows that Mauri can't go full Volta, he'd have a use for him. He signed Victor de la Parte (though admittedly after a year on a bio-passport compliant ProConti team rather than straight after his ridiculous Österreichrundfahrt show with Team Vorarlberg); the second time he signed Rubén Plaza was direct from a Liberty Seguros Continental team that had just seen three of its riders suspended for CERA use after obliterating the Volta a Portugal; he signed David Arroyo from LA Aluminios-Pecol; Carlos Oyarzún straight from an amateur team after he produced a shockingly good World Championships ITT; signed Fran Pérez straight out of Milaneza-Maia (mid-season, immediately after the Volta to start the Vuelta as his first race with the team!!!). And perhaps most notably for this particular example, he had actually signed Alejandro Marque when he turned miraculously from a time triallist to a climber in 2013 and would have been 32 by the time his contract came into effect, but then a contentious TUE error offered them the chance to break the contract and sign Igor Antón instead because of the Euskaltel yard sale. Results were varied of course - Arroyo and Plaza went on to produce for years for the team (plus of course they signed Costa from Portugal but he was an espoir at the time), Pérez would be OK but never reach the level he suggested with Milaneza, Oyarzún and de la Parte were short-lived experiments that didn't really pay off.

Like, literally if anybody was going to consider signing Mauri to a higher level, it would have been Unzué. And he wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.
The Marque thing had the potential to be awesome. Was there any truth behind the rumour that he actually offered Alarcon a contract after he had won the Volta, but for less money that he would have been making in Portugal?
 
The Marque thing had the potential to be awesome. Was there any truth behind the rumour that he actually offered Alarcon a contract after he had won the Volta, but for less money that he would have been making in Portugal?
I can't say as it was just rumour, but it's not even the craziest or dumbest rumour. He had also apparently offered José Belda a contract in 2012, enough said.
 
All you can say about Melcior is, if there wasn't any fire behind the smoke, don't you think Unzué would have signed him on the spot when Movistar were at the Volta last year? He more or less fits the template for what Eusebio wants out of a rider perfectly, and he's from a Latin American country that Movistar have never had a rider from, and rode in the Spanish amateur scene a few years back. The very fact Unzué didn't sign him for 2022 is enough of a red flag.
Agree. Since Marque, I think that ship has sailed. Plus, WT teams try them out before signing too, that's why Rodrigues never jumped to higher divisions. When he was at Trek without his usual program he was trash and wasn't signed. I think that experience definitely showed that being nuclear in the clown show means less than nothing.
 
Agree. Since Marque, I think that ship has sailed. Plus, WT teams try them out before signing too, that's why Rodrigues never jumped to higher divisions. When he was at Trek without his usual program he was trash and wasn't signed. I think that experience definitely showed that being nuclear in the clown show means less than nothing.
José Neves as well. Went to Vaughters as a trainee weeks after winning GP Joaquim Agostinho as a 22 year old with already a Volta a Portugal U23 and a couple of national U23 ITT titles under his belt but wasn't kept. And even in Burgos only showed results when racing in Portugal. But have to admit that Burgos is a bad team regarding rider development.
 
José Neves as well. Went to Vaughters as a trainee weeks after winning GP Joaquim Agostinho as a 22 year old with already a Volta a Portugal U23 and a couple of national U23 ITT titles under his belt but wasn't kept. And even in Burgos only showed results when racing in Portugal. But have to admit that Burgos is a bad team regarding rider development.
That said, Neves did almost win the Tour of China II for Burgos, ahead of guys like Kevin Rivera and CT sputnik Ovechkin. While he wasn't a world beater he was good enough for a PCT team, but at that level he could probably make more money racing in Portugal.

When it comes to Unzue I'm actually surprised they never tried to sign Reis.
 
So, Freddy "Watts" Figueiredo with zero wins outside Portugal (and it's not like he does extremely stacked races in Spain) just put up around 6.7w/kg in nearly 29m (28:41 timed by me). These are my own calculations so I may be over/underestimating it by a bit.

Without Porco, CycloTugão is cleanz...
 
Reactions: Ilmaestro99
So, Freddy "Watts" Figueiredo with zero wins outside Portugal (and it's not like he does extremely stacked races in Spain) just put up around 6.7w/kg in nearly 29m (28:41 timed by me). These are my own calculations so I may be over/underestimating it by a bit.

Without Porco, CycloTugão is cleanz...
Volta FF would send Jonas back to the fish factory :cool:
 
Volta FF would send Jonas back to the fish factory :cool:
Here's a different calculation by MF Naichaca:
View: https://twitter.com/NaichacaCycling/status/1557415421447397383?s=20&t=yOroXQ-a74CXV35Vd4rlRg


The 5 second difference between out timings is negligeble (although mine is correct and his is wrong, the beginning of the climb was visible on the broadcast) but I really don't understand the gap between our calculations. I don't know which formula is using. Anyway, I leave it here.
 
Here's a different calculation by MF Naichaca:
View: https://twitter.com/NaichacaCycling/status/1557415421447397383?s=20&t=yOroXQ-a74CXV35Vd4rlRg


The 5 second difference between out timings is negligeble (although mine is correct and his is wrong, the beginning of the climb was visible on the broadcast) but I really don't understand the gap between our calculations. I don't know which formula is using. Anyway, I leave it here.
Imo his calculation is too conservative. Figueiredo is also listed at 56kg, so the w/kg must be through the roof.
 
Reactions: PhiLiz
Imo his calculation is too conservative. Figueiredo is also listed at 56kg, so the w/kg must be through the roof.
I think I know the issue and you were right. He's using the J. Martin formula which is known to underestimate when riders are under 64kg. Figueiredo is 56kg so that probably explains it.

There's also a few inconsistencies regarding time and elevation but I don't think that would explain such a massive difference.
 
I think I know the issue and you were right. He's using the J. Martin formula which is known to underestimate when riders are under 64kg. Figueiredo is 56kg so that probably explains it.

There's also a few inconsistencies regarding time and elevation but I don't think that would explain such a massive difference.
I think you're right. 55kg Herder Goncalves did 5.97 W/KG on the final 8.74kms of the climb and finished 2:41 behind Figueiredo, who is at a similar weight. That means WTF wattages for Figueiredo...
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY